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Featured 'Free Will' Is Inherently Polytheistic

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Sleeppy, Sep 4, 2016.

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  1. Is Monotheistic

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  2. Is Polytheistic

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  3. Is Both, i.e. Dualistic

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  1. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    'Free Will', as it pertains to any self-proclaimed monotheistic religion, describes a counter-intuitive worship of self, to the extent that individual desires become gods themselves, occasionally subverting each respective monotheistic God's intent.
     
  2. Labourwave

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    I don't understand why it would be attributed to only polytheism.
    However I understand the contradictory nature of it within abrahamic religion.
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Id assume that we have free will (free choice of 'our own') to do as we will. Its not pined down to any religion or theology. It just means you have the choice and ability to do X. While some people with illnesses dont have free will to decide on their own behalf. Those in mental health hospital care have their free will taken to supposedly better their well being.

    Its not religious. Its like saying karma is a Buddhist thought. It isnt. It just means the causes we make bring good or bad consequences.

    Its not religious. So I couldnt really choose an option. Free will is embedded in life.
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Hmmmm...I had to re-read the question a few times to understand what you were implying.

    So "free will" was given to humankind in the beginning so that choices could be made within the parameters set by the Creator, enhancing their life in a hundred different ways every day. IOW, free will wasn't totally free. It had boundaries so that it would be a blessing to God's children if exercised within those boundaries.

    Along comes the devil and tells the newby (when she was alone) that God is holding something back from them that could make them" like God"! She falls for that, (1 Timothy 2:14) and exercises her free will beyond the boundary set by her Maker.
    Next her actions then force her new husband to choose between loyalty to his God and loyalty to his new wife, when she offered him the fruit. (Divide and conquer still works well for the devil) In taking it, both had exercised their free will in a wrong way, unleashing upon the human race knowledge that God never intended them to have. Sin entered their flesh in some undisclosed way and they passed that imperfection (sin) onto all their offspring. (Romans 5:12) The individual will of other humans could now override the free will of everyone, producing a situation where free will was now a curse instead of a blessing.

    So is free will inherently polytheistic? It can be. Turning the blessing of free will into a curse was never in God's original purpose, but he allowed humans to reap the consequences of what they had sown. Can we have other gods as a result of that curse? Absolutely!

    Paul wrote...Phillipians 3:17-20:
    "Dear brothers and sisters, pattern your lives after mine, and learn from those who follow our example. 18 For I have told you often before, and I say it again with tears in my eyes, that there are many whose conduct shows they are really enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 They are headed for destruction. Their god is their appetite, they brag about shameful things, and they think only about this life here on earth. 20 But we are citizens of heaven, where the Lord Jesus Christ lives. And we are eagerly waiting for him to return as our Savior." (NLT)

    Human appetites can be many...food, sex, material things, power, money, position, education....its a long list, so if we make any of those things our main goal in life, then they have replaced God and have become objects of worship to us....our main focus. If we are citizens of a heavenly kingdom, then earthly things must take a back seat. This world is "passing away" (1 John 2:17) so there is no point in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic or upgrading to a better cabin....is there? We can rely on Paul's words in Hebrews 13:5-6. Being content means "wanting what you have...not having what you want."

    "Let your way of life be free of the love of money, while you are content with the present things. For he has said: “I will never leave you, and I will never abandon you.” 6 So that we may be of good courage and say: “Jehovah is my helper; I will not be afraid. What can man do to me?( where he quotes Psalm 118:6)

    Was that a fair assessment of what you meant? [​IMG]
     
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  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    What is will, and what is "free will"?


    .
     
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  6. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    Is this meant to be a question on monotheism, or to point out that every expression of free-will that isn't in accordance with choosing G-d'd intent is by nature idol worship?
     
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  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Actually it's God who decided to give mankind free will. It was a very naive act of love, totally unaware of the consequences. Free will implies the total absence of God in our lives, and so therefore, we humans are totally helpless and potential victims of others.
    Answering your question, yes: He wanted us to become like Him, that is, gods. But I don't think he did us a favor. He has made us autonomous, so that we are alone in our decisions, and 100 % responsible for them.
     
  8. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Er... speaking as a polytheist... what the blazes are you talking about? Worship of the self is autotheism. I'm getting the sense you're using "polytheist" as a dirty, pejorative snarl word. If so, please stop it.
     
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  9. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    It depends on who you ask:



    'Will' can generally be defined as intent, or desire. In Judaism, Islam Christianity, etc., 'Free Will' is the means by which individual intentions are capable of subverting each respective God's intent, or will.
     
  10. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Designating it as idol worship, or autolatry, falls short. Believing that power exists apart from God is illogical, if we're defining God as God, being the insurmountable, all-encompassing power. But, what the 'Free Will' idea necessitates is blasphemy, that is, to admit that our intentions may elevate themselves even above God. It is autolatry, or idol worship, and for this reason also, it is polytheism, i.e. belief in many gods.
     
  11. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    The 'Free Will' idea doesn't acknowledge only one God, but many. Everyone becomes a god. And for this reason, I would say autotheism falls short. 'Free Will' is inherently polytheistic.
     
  12. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I see what you're saying. In my religion, one perform idol worship without actually being that the idol is divine, so I see a distinction there.
     
  13. Jonathan Ainsley Bain

    Jonathan Ainsley Bain Logical Positivist

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    A very good question, with many subtly illusive answers.

    But let me explain it this way: If your will is determined you would be perfectly logical,
    like a computer program, incapable of error or misunderstanding. If there was no free will,
    we would not be able to ask questions, because the answers would already be predetermined.

    So the REAL question, is: to what extent is our will free?

    My answer is that the ONLY decision that is free, is whether we choose to think further... or not.
    The decision to think or not, must be free, because we do not know about that we have not
    thought about yet. If it was not a free decision to think, then our next thoughts would be already know
    as they would be predetermined.

    Think about it.
    (or not)
     
  14. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    How would this relate to polytheism?
     
  15. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Computer programs aren't always completely logical, or free from error.
     
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  16. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    No, it doesn't. The concept of free will is not theistic. Philosophies about free will (or the lack thereof) don't have anything inherently to do with theology at all. I really don't understand where you are getting the idea from that free will must be related to theism, or is somehow polytheistic. You're not making sense.



    Why? I'm not seeing the connection from "free will = everyone becomes a god." And besides, such deification of humans is, again, autotheism, not polytheism. What you're talking about is typical of Western LHP religions which emphasize personal power and autonomy (aka, autotheism), but this is unrelated to polytheism.



    No, it really, really isn't.
     
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  17. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    Claiming that God is surmountable, contradicts monotheism. Those who believe they may subvert God, with free will, thereby consider themselves gods. 'Free Will' is inherently polytheistic.
     
  18. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

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    In the context of the OP, as it pertains mainly to self-proclaiming monotheists, 'Free Will' is a theological idea. If you weren't here in the Religious Debates section talking mainly to theists, not to philosophers, it most certainly would rather be termed philosophically.


    'Free Will' within the original theological context is in fact both autotheistic and polytheistic.

    Autotheism: worship of oneself
    Polytheism: worship of more than one god
     
    #18 Sleeppy, Sep 5, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2016
  19. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    Let me see. If the dictionary of Free Will is correct, "the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion," than god(s) have nothing to do with it. Many polytheist do not believe their gods (and in my case the Spirits-so whatever) have any control over our actions. We have free will. The Free Will of monotheism doesn't apply to polytheist (that I know of) and in a general umbrella term of polytheism, it doesn't apply to me and probably many Hindu as well.
    Free Will creates worship of self to make our intentions god?
    (I had to do with @Deeje did, read it a couple of times)
    Sleepy-I second this notion. Can you rephrase what you're saying?
    No. Will is an action based on choice. The will/choice of a person to do X. It ha nothing to do with intent. As a result, free will is the freedom to choose on one's own or another person's behalf rather than someone doing it for us. God(s) and intentions have nothing to do with it.
    Since Free Will is a simple concept of having the choice to choose one's own actions, how does this choice/action elevate oneself over god? And when one person elevates themselves over one god as you claim, how is that polytheism since there needs to be more than one person to elevate oneself over more than one god?
    Free Will just means "We can choose (or have a will) our actions". It has nothing to do with theism, polytheism, etc. It talks about choice and action nothing more. On that note:

    I don't mean to be rude, but what you're saying @sleepy does not make sense.

    :shrug: @Deeje Where did you get that "scratching the head" icon?
     
  20. 1137

    1137 | O.S. Co-founder
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    I don't see what makes it polytheistic. It can't be *monism*, but it can be *monotheism*.
     
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