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Free speech laws on college campuses

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This is a reductionism nobody is arguing. These two things aren't mutually exclusive. Respecting and giving undue support to speech which calls for the elimination of speech of certain minorities (which people like white supremacists do) does indeed pose a danger to a tolerant society. That doesn't change that other things do as well.

I'm not saying that those two things are mutually exclusive. And if there are white supremacists calling for the elimination of speech for certain minorities (or even worse), then I could understand it. But oftentimes, the speech in question is not that extreme. Sometimes, it may be just offensive, but not necessarily seditious.

It's just that in the "Paradox of Tolerance" cartoon, it makes it appear that the Weimar Republic was too tolerant of Hitler - implying that that's how he gained power. I don't believe that's an accurate depiction of history, and it's because of these kinds of misunderstandings and misinterpretations of history that may still pose a danger to a tolerant society.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
I hate to agree with @Enoch07 , but in the U.S pedophilia does not appear to enter into the legal code. All the laws I see ban sex with minors without attaching a label to the perpetrator. I am not saying that pedophilia is legal. It is not called that when people attack underaged kids. Pedophilia is a psychiatric diagnosis. The law does not care what one's excuse is. It is still against the law.
Are you done with the semantics? The law calls it child sexual abuse. Is there much of a difference? Child sexual abuse is the act. The pedophile is the one who commits the act. Milo was defending criminals and a criminal act.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Are you done with the semantics? The law calls it child sexual abuse. Is there much of a difference? Child sexual abuse is the act. The pedophile is the one who commits the act. Milo was defending criminals and a criminal act.
I know him and it is the sort of argument that he will use. And I am far from being a lawyer, but I do know that they have different statues for statutory rape and child sexual abuse. The case you were discussing might have qualified as statutory rape.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
There are several problems/inaccuracies with this.
That universities exist to allow the pre-exchange of ideas and information is true, but at the same time you don’t find any sort of worthwhile university promoting things that have been demonstrated to be wrong years, decades, or centuries earlier. And yes; opinions can definitely be wrong.
- Universities do not have classes on the benefits of slavery or torture.
- Universities do not hire professors to teach racial inequality or the correctness of the Nazi 3rd Reich. That the Earth is the center of the solar system, or that the value of pi is close enough to 3.0 that engineers can go ahead and operate with that. o_O
- They DO hire professors of history to teach students how such outdated beliefs are not only wrong, but dangerous to the believers and to the societies in which those beliefs held sway.

Well, of course they don't necessarily teach those things, although I have heard of schools like the School of the Americas which taught torturers (among other notorious people). All the personnel from our intelligence agencies, military, and foreign service had to go to school and learn their trade somewhere. But that's all beside the point; I was just mentioning it as a point of order.

I don't know that you're giving an accurate depiction of the kinds of individuals and speech which have been banned or shouted down on campus. We're not talking about outright Nazis here, even if some people wish to portray them as such. When there are people out there who think Trump is Hitler, then I find reason to question their ability to judge and discern such things. (Trump was born in 1946, a year after Hitler died, so I think that's pretty conclusive evidence that Trump is NOT Hitler. Yet some people still think that he is. Am I supposed to take such people seriously? Are these the kind of people who are even capable of understanding and recognizing different ideas and beliefs?)

I've seen people on campus with some rather unconventional and downright crazy ideas. I remember one disheveled old man who had a sign claiming that "silent radio" is controlling our minds (yet he wasn't wearing a tinfoil hat). He was obviously a loon, but nobody bothered him. I think most people felt sorry for him more than anything else, but even if he had a crazy and/or outdated belief, it didn't seem to pose any danger and nobody felt threatened. Although he wasn't invited to formally speak at the campus; he just wandered in.

I do not need to hear the self-agrandizing and worthless prattle of some racist or misogynist child on campus, in order to use him as an example of what was once so wrong with humanity and society. A picture of them, or of a slave being whipped, or a “witch” being burned alive, etc.... is all that is required. Thank you very much.

While I agree that shouting down an invited speaker is poor manners; I also believe that whichever university student groups, university administrators, or others, who request that a speaker be allowed to come onto campus just to hail the ‘wonders’ of ignorance, hatred, intolerance, etc.....should have their ability to invite speakers (along with their very continuance on campus) to be heavily scrutinized.

The thing that strikes me about it is that, when people feel the need to heckle or shout down someone, they act like they're on some sort of crusade. The implication is that, if they weren't there to enlighten everyone with their shrill, piercing screams, everyone else in the audience would suddenly become transformed into Nazis before our very eyes, just from listening to a speech.

There seems to be some sense of urgency in that "if we don't heckle, shout down, or otherwise disrupt this speaker, then everyone will start to agree with him, and then we'll all be up the creek."

If nothing else, it's an insult to the rest of the audience, implying that they're not capable of understanding, and that they need this heckler there to save them from doom.

They seem to believe that they are "protectors" of the poor sheep who would otherwise be lost if not for the dedication and devotion of these wonderful defenders of freedom. I think it's a sign of arrogance bordering on delusion. I'm not saying they shouldn't do it, but they shouldn't let it go to their head or make more of it than it really is.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Not according to US or British law. Why are you defending him defending pedophilia so much?

Because it's not pedophilia to talk about your own sexual experiences as a 13 year old.

You are telling a lie to smear someone because you disagree with his opinions.


Defamatory speech aimed to harm and injure a group is hate speech, that is the definition of hate speech

Criticism, mocking, and insults are not hate speech. Grow some thicker skin.

He was making a racist blanket statement about Native Americans calling them savages whose only cultural achievement was inventing the tomahawk.

No, you are trying to turn it into that because he disagrees with your group think. You cannot suppress critical thinking and free thought forever.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
You are telling a lie to smear someone because you disagree with his opinions.
He actually defended the pedophila. Saying it was a good thing.

"We get hung up on this child abuse stuff… This is one of the reasons why I hate the left, the one size fits all policing of culture, this arbitrary and oppressive idea of consent."

"In the gay world, some of the most important enriching, and incredibly life-affirming, important, shaping relationships are between younger boys and older men. They can be hugely positive experiences very often for those young boys."

Criticism, mocking, and insults are not hate speech. Grow some thicker skin.
Yes, but defamatory speech aimed to harm and injure a group of people is hate speech. When it is used to incite others into a violent act it becomes a hate crime.

No, you are trying to turn it into that because he disagrees with your group think. You cannot suppress critical thinking and free thought forever.
Believing that Native Americans are all savages, Black people only become successful because of handouts, and Arabs like to live in an open sewer is not evidence of free thought or thought for that matter nor is it an example of critical thinking but that form of bigotry betrays the absolute mindlessness and stupidity of those who hold such views.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
"In the gay world, some of the most important enriching, and incredibly life-affirming, important, shaping relationships are between younger boys and older men. They can be hugely positive experiences very often for those young boys."

Again that's not pedophilia.

He was talking about young boys in context of his situation.

Just more lies from the left.

Yes, but defamatory speech aimed to harm and injure a group of people is hate speech.

I'll let you in on a secret.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.

The only way words cause harm is when they incite violence. Of which neither Ben or Milo have ever done.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
He actually defended the pedophila. Saying it was a good thing.

"We get hung up on this child abuse stuff… This is one of the reasons why I hate the left, the one size fits all policing of culture, this arbitrary and oppressive idea of consent."

"In the gay world, some of the most important enriching, and incredibly life-affirming, important, shaping relationships are between younger boys and older men. They can be hugely positive experiences very often for those young boys."


Yes, but defamatory speech aimed to harm and injure a group of people is hate speech. When it is used to incite others into a violent act it becomes a hate crime.


Believing that Native Americans are all savages, Black people only become successful because of handouts, and Arabs like to live in an open sewer is not evidence of free thought or thought for that matter nor is it an example of critical thinking but that form of bigotry betrays the absolute mindlessness and stupidity of those who hold such views.
If you changed your terminology you could win this argument. Legally Milo was not the victim of a pedophile. You would know the difference between child sexual abuse, which is a crime of pedophiles and statutory rape if you read the article that I linked. The law does treat pedophilia, sex with prepubescent children, differently than they treat statutory rape, which is sex with post pubescent children. Milo does not advocate for pedophilia, he advocates for statutory rape. Not quite as bad but still highly immoral. And Enoch will probably not see this since he lost an argument badly with me and seems to have put me on ignore. Using the proper terminology if you want to show him to be wrong.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Again that's not pedophilia.

He was talking about young boys in context of his situation.

Just more lies from the left.



I'll let you in on a secret.

Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me.

The only way words cause harm is when they incite violence. Of which neither Ben or Milo have ever done.
He saying that young boys as young as 13 or 14 years of age benefit from being sexually abused by adult males, He is advocating the sexual abuse of children who are unable to give consent in the eyes of the law. That is type of person you want to speak for you. Have you no shame?
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
He saying that young boys as young as 13 or 14 years of age benefit from being sexually abused by adult males,

Nope,

That is not pedophilia. Pedophilia is a sexual attraction to children under 12 years old. Him saying that he himself as a 13 year old boy attracted to older men is not pedophilia.

He is advocating the sexual abuse of children who are unable to give consent in the eyes of the law.

He never said that. It's just lies you want to be believe to discredit him. Again context matters.

That is type of person you want to speak for you. Have you no shame?

Nobody speaks for me, but myself.

But I also don't go around making up lies about someone just because I don't like their opinion.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
If you changed your terminology you could win this argument. Legally Milo was not the victim of a pedophile. You would know the difference between child sexual abuse, which is a crime of pedophiles and statutory rape if you read the article that I linked. The law does treat pedophilia, sex with prepubescent children, differently than they treat statutory rape, which is sex with post pubescent children. Milo does not advocate for pedophilia, he advocates for statutory rape. Not quite as bad but still highly immoral. And Enoch will probably not see this since he lost an argument badly with me and seems to have put me on ignore. Using the proper terminology if you want to show him to be wrong.

Let the man fight his own battle.

Btw you lost that argument, because you lied and caught you in it. Just like you are lying about winning the argument now. ;)

Grow up and act like an adult for once.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Let the man fight his own battle.

Btw you lost that argument, because you lied and caught you in it. Just like you are lying about winning the argument now. ;)

Grow up and act like an adult for once.
Hardly. You were caught in a trap due to your error that you kept denying. I offered to go over your error with you for a price but you were not willing to pay. I never lied, I used your stubbornness against you. I was consistent in my arguments. Since you were caught you incorrectly called that a lie.
 
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