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Free healthcare

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Estro Felino, Oct 28, 2021.

  1. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Hi guys:)
    I am starting this thread to ask you to explain me in detail how American healthcare system works, and if it is better than the British system*, which is called "single-payer free healthcare system."

    I am going to explain our system to you.
    The Ministry of Health is the administrative vertix of the NHS, National Health Service, which is a sort of firm, 100% owned by the State.
    Every citizen has a card, the NHS card which gives them the right of having discounts on necessary medicines, discounts on medical visits, etc...
    There is no such things as "medical bills". All public hospitals are owned by the State, so if you undergo a cancer surgery, or if you deliver a baby, you owe zero £/€ to the hospital.
    Obviously only necessary surgeries are covered by the NHS cards. Nose jobs or the like are surely not.
    There are private physicians who can be expensive or not that expensive. Whereas visits of public physicians are usually cheap (with the NHS card)



    *also present in Scandinavia, Italy , Spain, Portugal, Australia, Canada, NZ.
     
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  2. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Thanks for sharing.

    Seems a great health system to me. In Holland it's good, but they try to make it gradually worse (From sick POV ;) of course; optimizing it for Big Pharma)

    All pay monthly ca. 125 euro and that covers all hospital visits. BUT in hospital the first ca. 400 euro you must pay yourself yearly. So when healthy you have no extra costs except monthly 125. Dentist is also covered. When sick you max. pay 400 extra per year. Very good system IMO (and when poor there is less pay even)

    You can choose to pay less monthly, but then you need to pay a certain percentage each visit

    Nose jobs and stuff will cost you a little here too. Some treatments you must pay yourself. Very few get into real health trouble here due to the system

    My guess is that this is 'paradise' compared to USA
     
    #2 stvdv, Oct 28, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
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  3. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    In fairness, what you need to add is that this is funded out of central taxation, so tax rates are higher in countries that have such a system, with wealthier people contributing more than those on lower income. Nothing is "free", ultimately.

    Also, some very expensive procedures are not supported by many of these state health systems. Costly new treatments have to be subjected to a cost-effectiveness evaluation before they are offered. But this is at the margin, for things such as highly exotic cancer drugs, or expensive therapies whose effectiveness is not clearly proven.
     
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  4. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    In the UK prescriptions for the under 18, pregnant women and over 60's are free.
    Other prescriptions are capped at £9.35, so no crippling medicine bills
     
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  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    But think of the poor pharmaceutical companies! We have much more compassion here.
     
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  6. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    In Italy the medicines which are prescribed by the physicians as useful are free for the kids.
    Antibiotics which are prescribed can cost 3 euros instead of 20 euros with prescription.
     
  7. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I know. It is so sad.:(
    Without their daily million, they start having convulsions
     
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  8. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I am not saying that this system is 100% identical in all countries.
    In Italy and in Britain, women who deliver babies owe zero pounds/euros to the State.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    The difference is negligible. Just try having a baby here. Whoa Mamma!
     
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  10. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    In Australia too. I was actually shocked to learn how expensive it was to give birth in the US
     
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  11. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    For instance, we pay lots of taxes, it is true. But at least the State gives us services in return.
    Americans pay taxes...but where are services?


    We have national taxes, municipial taxes, regional taxes ....
     
    #11 Estro Felino, Oct 28, 2021
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  12. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Even if it is free, this doesn't encourage to make babies. Just think if it was costly.:p zero births...
     
    #12 Estro Felino, Oct 28, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2021
  13. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    Umm... yeah, I can't explain it.
    We have different private companies offering differ bundles. If you belong to a larger company you can usually get a better deal, more coverage for cheaper as the insurance company spreads their risk over a greater number of people.
    If you go to a hospital they are required to treat you, but then you can end up owing tens of thousands of dollars without insurance. Also you get random bills for doctors from the other side of the country saying they were involved in your care, though you've never saw or heard of them before. Generally you don't have to pay but it really hurts your credit rating if you don't.

    My wife worked at a hospital for a while, and whatever the insurance didn't cover, the hospital did. So people who work at hospitals get a pretty good deal. I now have coverage but with all these doctors I never see billing me I can end up owing thousands.

    I finally got all of my medical bills pay off finally. Now I avoid going to the doctor mainly to avoid these bills from random doctors around the country.
    There is a person who has a job of deciphering the billing codes to send to the various insurance agencies.

    When I apply through my company for insurance I have 3 plans I can choose from, HMO health management something which covers the most and cost the most. PPO, Personal physician and catastrophic care which is cheapest but you are on your own for the first $2500-$5000 in medical expenses.

    Other people/companies have different plans. Some of the more executive folks get better plans I suspect as a bribe since they select which insurance company to go with.

    It's all pretty eclectic. One has to shop for their doctor as some are really good, others are not. Also some doctors won't accept some insurance plans as they have trouble getting the insurance companies to pay.

    I have a distant relative who makes a lot of money going to various companies getting them to use her insurance company. Pretty lucrative job selling insurance to private companies.

    So I can kind of tell you about it, explain it, no.
     
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  14. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    In my vision insurance and health cannot exist in the same sentence.
    The only insurance entities that are about health are public law entities. Entirely owned by the State and they cover injuries at the workplace.

    Btw...thank you. It clarified many doubts.

    What about creating a public insurance entity, owned by the State which covers anything?
     
    #14 Estro Felino, Oct 28, 2021
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  15. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    These tens of thousands of dollars ...in whose pockets do they end up?
    The Hospital's? The Physicians'?
     
  16. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    I don't want to sound wicked because I am not... but this scene when the physician ask her "do you have insurance?" and she shows him a bundle of dollars and there is a smile on his face looking at that money...
    I find all this extremely abhorrent. And squalid.




    The fact that physicians okay this situation and do not demand a state-owned healthcare syste.
     
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  17. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    Yes. We all pay for that between us, through our taxes. Which everyone in Britain is very happy with.

    It has been said that the NHS is something close to a national religion, for the British. It seems fair, it removes the stress of worrying about the cost when you fall ill, it means there is no paperwork to do (apart from the consent form if you need an operation) and for the most part the urgent service is good (though the facilities are sometimes in a poor state of repair and there can be quite long waiting times for non-urgent treatments).

    There is however a substantial private medicine sector alongside the NHS, which wealthier people often use, often paying for their own private health insurance scheme, to get faster, generally non-urgent, treatment. There is an important synergy here with the NHS, as senior doctors, the "consultants" (my brother is one), will work in both the NHS, where their expertise benefits from a high volume of cases and the sharing of knowledge with colleagues, and also in private practice, which allows them to boost their income. Without this private sector, the medical profession would be a lot less attractive for medical specialists.

    But if you need emergency treatment, everyone goes straight to the nearest NHS hospital, no questions asked.
     
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  18. Estro Felino

    Estro Felino Believer in free will
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    Identical, here.
    Physicians who work at the hospital have their own private studio. Private visits can be expensive, yes.

    When you need to go to the emergency room, they demand the NHS card. Even if you do not pay anything, they need that.
     
  19. exchemist

    exchemist Veteran Member

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    That's what I would have expected.

    I mention it because some people on the Left criticise the existence of private medicine, accusing it of allowing "queue-jumping" for wealthy people. Which of course it does. But overall everyone wins because it takes some pressure off the NHS and, crucially, provides an incentive for capable people to put in the long hours needed to train as a consultant. (I myself sometimes get a private consultation, for something like an eye problem or a bad knee. It can cost me £120 a time, but I get a quick answer and just getting my car serviced costs that much these days.)
     
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  20. Hermit Philosopher

    Hermit Philosopher Selflessly here for you

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    :blush: They get their money: £10 from the patient, the rest from the state. We collectively subsidise each other.
     
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