Free electricity by dielectric compression !

[columbus]

I wonder if I can generate electricity for Mr Van when
I put dielectric grease on his electrical connections?

When we were kids, my friend came up with this brilliant plan for an electric vehicle.
We would attach a car alternator to a grocery cart wheel, then the alternator to an electric motor on another wheel.
Viola! We just give it a push to get started then ride all over the place in our grocery cart.

It's perfect for a couple of 10 year olds.
Right?
Tom

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Not really. Finding engineers that do not understand the sciences is quite doable.

not employable ones, you will certainly find a few basic mechanics or grease monkeys that fall into that category.

I was surprised to see how many female Top engineers were employed as leads on the vast new cross rail project in London.
It is the largest and most complex engineering project in the UK today.
With engineers selected from the best from around the world
One of the project leaders is an American woman construction Engineer..

 

[Revoltingest]

When we were kids, my friend came up with this brilliant plan for an electric vehicle.
We would attach a car alternator to a grocery cart wheel, then the alternator to an electric motor on another wheel.
Viola! We just give it a push to get started then ride all over the place in our grocery cart.

It's perfect for a couple of 10 year olds.
Right?
Tom

I've known adults who come up with the same kind of stuff.
They tend to make things more complex though.
This way, what looks superficially impossible is hidden in
the complexity, thereby making it possible.

Example of one dolt I knew.....
A motor runs a pump.
Pump supplies water to the top of a tower.
Falling water powers a wheel.
Wheel powers a generator.
Generator powers the motor.

Dolt told me....
"I don't see how it couldn't work."
He was correct.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

When we were kids, my friend came up with this brilliant plan for an electric vehicle.
We would attach a car alternator to a grocery cart wheel, then the alternator to an electric motor on another wheel.
Viola! We just give it a push to get started then ride all over the place in our grocery cart.

It's perfect for a couple of 10 year olds.
Right?
Tom

and it would seem to work as long as you were going downhill...

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

I've known adults who come up with the same kind of stuff.
They tend to make things more complex though.
This way, what looks superficially impossible is hidden in
the complexity, thereby making it possible.

Example of one dolt I knew.....
A motor runs a pump.
Pump supplies water to the top of a tower.
Falling water powers a wheel.
Wheel powers a generator.
Generator powers the motor.

Dolt told me....
"I don't see how it couldn't work."
He was correct.

Even at best (ignoring certain realities, that is), you'd only be able to generate enough energy to keep pumping water up the tower, with nothing left over to do anything else...reality of course, is even worse than that...

 

[Revoltingest]

Even at best (ignoring certain realities, that is), you'd only be able to generate enough energy to keep pumping water up the tower, with nothing left over to do anything else...reality of course, is even worse than that...

Damn reality....it ruins every great idea!

 

[columbus]

I've known adults who come up with the same kind of stuff.

At least ours was useful.
It kept us out of our moms' hair for most of a weekend. And we learned about Reality.
Tom

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

there's a system that's been developed, that uses falling water to generate electricity during the day to meet demand...at night, rather than throttle back because of lower demand or sell the excess to others on the grid, they use the excess to pump water back uphill to the reservoir and use it to generate electricity the next day...

 

[sealchan]

There is an energy expenditure in keeping the rod steady in the ocean otherwise the rod would move according to the changing currents and pressures and avoid changing the compression of the rod that produces the electrical current. That probably cancels out most or all of the effect of energy generation in this example. Even if you buried one end of the rod in rock the rock would get heated by the ocean trying to move the rod horizontally and vertically.

I think these sorts of question, even if they turn out not to be practically productive, are good for learning and understanding physics.

 

[james blunt]

not employable ones, you will certainly find a few basic mechanics or grease monkeys that fall into that category.

I was surprised to see how many female Top engineers were employed as leads on the vast new cross rail project in London.
It is the largest and most complex engineering project in the UK today.
With engineers selected from the best from around the world
One of the project leaders is an American woman construction Engineer..

Railway engines designs ? I have some ideas !

 

[columbus]

I have a vague memory of a rather more feasible method of extracting electricity from the ocean. It's from the 70s, as I recall.

It took advantage of the thermal gradient between the relatively warm surface water and the colder deep water.
Unfortunately, the energy needed to create and place the device was more than the energy return over the projected life of the device.
The environmental disaster wasn't even factored in, IIRC.
Tom

 

[james blunt]

I have a vague memory of a rather more feasible method of extracting electricity from the ocean. It's from the 70s, as I recall.

It took advantage of the thermal gradient between the relatively warm surface water and the colder deep water.
Unfortunately, the energy needed to create and place the device was more than the energy return over the projected life of the device.
The environmental disaster wasn't even factored in, IIRC.
Tom

The thermal layer you are referring to I believe is called the Thermocline . Fish enjoy it ...

 

[Revoltingest]

At least ours was useful.
It kept us out of our moms' hair for most of a weekend. And we learned about Reality.
Tom

Failure is the greatest teacher.
I should be a genius.

 

[james blunt]

There is an energy expenditure in keeping the rod steady in the ocean otherwise the rod would move according to the changing currents and pressures and avoid changing the compression of the rod that produces the electrical current. That probably cancels out most or all of the effect of energy generation in this example. Even if you buried one end of the rod in rock the rock would get heated by the ocean trying to move the rod horizontally and vertically.

I think these sorts of question, even if they turn out not to be practically productive, are good for learning and understanding physics.

You'd obvious anchor it to the sea floor via a slightly slack chain allowing for the movement to further increase Piezoelectric charge . This would then remove the friction and heat energy you mention .
Obviously the sea floor pivot link would gain wear and tear over time , the ocean would make a great heat sink .

 

[exchemist]

I've known adults who come up with the same kind of stuff.
They tend to make things more complex though.
This way, what looks superficially impossible is hidden in
the complexity, thereby making it possible.

Example of one dolt I knew.....
A motor runs a pump.
Pump supplies water to the top of a tower.
Falling water powers a wheel.
Wheel powers a generator.
Generator powers the motor.

Dolt told me....
"I don't see how it couldn't work."
He was correct.

Yes exactly. Free energy cranks always devise a scenario that exceeds their own capacity to analyse accurately.....and then claim that Emmy Noether and the 1st and/or 2nd Laws of TD are wrong and we can all have free energy!

I was taught in the 6th From that using energy to analyse physics problems is one of the most powerful methods of solving them. But of course a free energy nut denies himself the chance of doing that, is thereby forced to do it all in terms of forces and motions, duly screws up and reaches a silly conclusion. The most involved I've come across was a German who had a scenario involving surface tension, of all things! It took several pages of discussion to get to the bottom of the flaw in his thinking. And then there was a Japanese with a solar cell device he thought could extract heat from a container indefinitely.....

I quite enjoy some of them - a good challenge to spot the flaw. But this one is just obviously bonkers.

 

[james blunt]

Yes exactly. Free energy cranks always devise a scenario that exceeds their own capacity to analyse accurately.....and then claim that Emmy Noether and the 1st and/or 2nd Laws of TD are wrong and we can all have free energy!

I was taught in the 6th From that using energy to analyse physics problems is one of the most powerful methods of solving them. But of course a free energy nut denies himself the chance of doing that, is thereby forced to do it all in terms of forces and motions, duly screws up and reaches a silly conclusion. The most involved I've come across was a German who had a scenario involving surface tension, of all things! It took several pages of discussion to get to the bottom of the flaw in his thinking. And then there was a Japanese with a solar cell device he thought could extract heat from a container indefinitely.....

I quite enjoy some of them - a good challenge to spot the flaw. But this one is just obviously bonkers.

I have a perpetual motion and energy device but I think you already know that !

 

[exchemist]

I have a perpetual motion and energy device but I think you already know that !

Sure.

 

[james blunt]

Sure.

I also have some unsinkable ship ideas ! yes i've been watching Titanic

 

[David T]

Sorry won't work. You also appear to be conflating piezoelectricity with a dielectric.

Not all materials are piezoelectric. Copper does not appear to be one of them. And even if it was the electricity generated is not free. When a piezoelectric object is compressed it develops a potential. If one allows electricity to flow from that potential one gets only one short burst. That is due to the work of compression.

Piezoelectricity - Wikipedia

Perhaps you should study up on the Second Law of Thermodynamics as well.

Being a guitar player of sorts thats what i instantly thought as well.

 

[David T]

Aye, some of us don't understand science....we just use it profitably.

Back to quantitative economic analysis.....
Some years ago, my town installed solar cells at the Farmer's Market.
They wanted to look really green....so fashionable here.
But it cost so much that the payback period was longer than the projected life of the system.
I wonder if Ocasio-Cortez was behind it?

"Aye, some of us don't understand science....we just use it profitably"

Sane science Thumbs up. Although totally off topic.