Fred Phelps, founder of Westboro Baptist Church, dies

[dyanaprajna2011]

http://news.yahoo.com/phelps-tested-free-speech-anti-gay-protests-173409742.html

I'm going to refrain from saying what I think, but I'll just leave this info here.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I was hoping he would repent before he died. But let me say this, he died excommunicated from his own church because he wanted them to be nicer to each other. We all have to remember he did some good works in the Civil Right's Movement.

 

[The Bullfrog]

I was hoping he would repent before he died. But let me say this, he died excommunicated from his own church because he wanted them to be nicer to each other. We all have to remember he did some good works in the Civil Right's Movement.

I am sorry, but I am drawing a blank. What was this good work he did in the Civil Right Movement?

 

[Drolefille]

I am sorry, I am drawing a blank. What was this good work he did in the Civil Right Movement?

Fred Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Phelps earned a law degree from Washburn University in 1964, and founded the Phelps Chartered law firm.[16] The first notable cases were related to civil rights. "I systematically brought down the Jim Crow laws of this town," he claims.[7] Phelps' daughter was quoted as saying, "We took on the Jim Crow establishment, and Kansas did not take that sitting down. They used to shoot our car windows out, screaming we were ****** lovers," and that the Phelps law firm made up one-third of the state's federal docket of civil rights cases.[17]
Phelps took cases on behalf of African-American clients alleging racial discrimination by school systems, and a predominantly black American Legion post which had been raided by police, alleging racially based police abuse.[18] Phelps' law firm obtained settlements for some clients.[19] Phelps also sued President Ronald Reagan over Reagan's appointment of a U.S. ambassador to the Vatican, alleging this violated separation of church and state. The case was dismissed by the U.S. district court.[19][20] Phelps' law firm, staffed by himself and family members also represented non-white Kansans in discrimination actions against Kansas City Power and Light, Southwestern Bell, and the Topeka City Attorney, and represented two female professors alleging discrimination in Kansas universities.[17]
In the 1980s, Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the NAACP, for his work on behalf of black clients.[19]

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Best news of the day ...

 

[The Bullfrog]

Fred Phelps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Civil Rights Movement is a movement for equality for all, and this would include the rights of minorities, women's rights and LGBT rights. It is not a movement for just African America rights. It may be considered a contribution to African America rights, but personally I can not acknowledge him as a contributor to The Civil Rights Movement. This guy clearly did not want equality for all.

Let's not try to make this guy into something he was not. He was a bigot and a hater and he deserves to be remembered as such.

 

[Drolefille]

The Civil Rights Movement is a movement for equality for all, and this would include the rights of minorities, women's rights and LGBT rights. It is not a movement for just African America rights. It may be considered a contribution to African America rights, but personally I can not acknowledge him as a contributor to The Civil Rights Movement. This guy clearly did not want equality for all.

Let's not try to make this guy into something he was not. He was a bigot and a hater and he deserves to be remembered as such.

That's a redefintion of the term that not all, including many African American Civil Rights leaders, would agree with.

I make no claims as to what he was, simply provided the information as to what he did that you requested.

 

[The Bullfrog]

That's a redefintion of the term that not all, including many African American Civil Rights leaders, would agree with.

I make no claims as to what he was, simply provided the information as to what he did that you requested.

I am not redefining any terms, that is actually what it is. Here in The States we have a focus on Black History, but that is only one aspect of The Civil Rights Movement.

Movements for civil rights were a worldwide series of political movements for equality before the law that peaked in the 1960s. In many situations it took the form of campaigns of civil resistance aimed at achieving change through nonviolent forms of resistance. In some situations it was accompanied, or followed, by civil unrest and armed rebellion. The process was long and tenuous in many countries, and many of these movements did not fully achieve their goals, although the efforts of these movements did lead to improvements in the legal rights of previously oppressed groups of people.

The main aim of the movements for civil rights included ensuring that the rights of all people are equally protected by the law, including the rights of minorities, women's rights, and LGBT rights.

Movements for civil rights - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Drolefille]

I am not redefining any terms, that is actually what it is. Here in The States we have a focus on Black History, but that is only one aspect of The Civil Rights Movement.

That's actually contradicted by your link, which you'll note says "Movements." You'll note that "American Civil Rights Movement" redirects to the African-American CRM. For an international encyclopedia, this is reasonable and doesn't really change what is meant by the words used here in the states.

I would agree that they are ALL civil rights, however the "Civil Rights Movement" also has a specific meaning in the US. This may change more over time. So you may feel that he didn't have any affect in the greater movements toward civil rights. However, it doesn't make sense to quibble about the name of things if what you were interested in is the details of what he did.

 

[The Bullfrog]

That's actually contradicted by your link, which you'll note says "Movements." You'll note that "American Civil Rights Movement" redirects to the African-American CRM. For an international encyclopedia, this is reasonable and doesn't really change what is meant by the words used here in the states.

I would agree that they are ALL civil rights, however the "Civil Rights Movement" also has a specific meaning in the US. This may change more over time. So you may feel that he didn't have any affect in the greater movements toward civil rights. However, it doesn't make sense to quibble about the name of things if what you were interested in is the details of what he did.

US history typically excludes the history of the LGBT community due to prejudice. Our high-school text books, when addressing the history of civil rights in America, coves women's rights and black's rights. It never even mentions gays. Our history, as written, is definitely lacking. You don't have to try and convince me of that, as I already know it.

You will never be able to convince me that this man was a civil rights activist. He was a hater and bigot and I will reject that notion on sheer principle alone. As a member of the gay community I can not acknowledge him as a supporter for equality. I also do not accept the idea that the movement for equality in the USA revolves solely around African Americas. Not to say they do not deserve their place in the pages of our history, but American history, on this subject, is without a doubt lacking.

 

[Drolefille]

US history typically excludes the history of the LGBT community due to prejudice. Our high-school text books, when addressing the history of civil rights in America, coves women's rights and black rights. It never even mentions gays. Our history, as written, is definitely lacking.

You will never be able to conviction me that this man was a civil rights activist. He was a hater and bigot and I will reject that notion on sheer principle alone. As a member for the gay communist I can not acknowledge him as a supporter for equality. The

I also do not accept the idea that the movement for equality in the USA revolves solely around African Americas. Not to say they do not deserve their place in the pages of our history, but American history, on this subject, is without a doubt lacking.

I don't think the movement for equality revolves solely around African Americans. I was simply using the term "Civil Rights Movement". If you'd like a change in language, it's simple enough to say that he advocated for equality for African Americans during the African American Civil Rights Movement? I wasn't using "Civil Rights Movement" in a way to exclude gay people (or women, I've never seen CRM used for the Women's Suffrage movement or other such things) simply referring to a specific event.

I'm confused why you would think that it would be necessary to consider him an advocate for equality on queer issues. People are often more complicated than they seem. He's a bigot against the LGBTQ population, but progressive on segregation. I'm not exactly straight myself. But I don't think that, for example, being an anti-gay bigot erases actions done for another population. I don't think his work for the AACRM (I'm done typing that out.) excuses or forgives his bigotry.

Personally I'm simply acknowledging that he's a much more complex person than his public face at the end of his life. It seems like something went off the rails somewhere. It doesn't mean I think he was a good guy who was great to invite to (drag) parties. I can acknowledge his work for equality and the harm he did for equality at the same time. And then wonder if the harm he did perhaps caused ripples that ultimately led to good, that's a tricky one.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You will never be able to convince me that this man was a civil rights activist. He was a hater and bigot and I will reject that notion on sheer principle alone. As a member of the gay community I can not acknowledge him as a supporter for equality. I also do not accept the idea that the movement for equality in the USA revolves solely around African Americas. Not to say they do not deserve their place in the pages of our history, but American history, on this subject, is without a doubt lacking.

Then you are simply choosing to ignore facts. Fred Phelps was one of the lawyers in the South fighting for racial equality. You are also ignoring that, in America, racial equality, the idea that a person should be judged by the content of character and not by the color of skin, is a major part of the civil rights movement.
And the reality is, petty much everybody (including blacks) that isn't white and male is excluded from history. And given by the amount of "awareness month (even credit education has a month, which also reflects on the state of our education)" posters I see around campus, I don't think things are going to be changing anytime soon.

 

[The Bullfrog]

Then you are simply choosing to ignore facts. Fred Phelps was one of the lawyers in the South fighting for racial equality. You are also ignoring that, in America, racial equality, the idea that a person should be judged by the content of character and not by the color of skin, is a major part of the civil rights movement.
And the reality is, petty much everybody (including blacks) that isn't white and male is excluded from history. And given by the amount of "awareness month (even credit education has a month, which also reflects on the state of our education)" posters I see around campus, I don't think things are going to be changing anytime soon.

I am not ignoring anything. You are not saying anything to me that I have not already considered. I am giving him his just due.

 

[ZooGirl02]

In my own personal opinion it is rather hypocritical for certain people who hate hatred to go on and then hate someone who was hateful. I personally think people should practice what they preach. If they preach love and tolerance then they should be loving and tolerant.

That said, I personally hope that he is in a better place now.

 

[Benst]

As a gay guy, I should be celebrating. But no, I hope he rests in peace. he and his family have spread a lot of hatred, but ultimately, it doesn't matter. He was a product of a certain time and his scope was very minimal. In death, I would hope, he will see how pointless and wrong his views were.

 

[The Bullfrog]

In my own personal opinion it is rather hypocritical for certain people who hate hatred to go on and then hate someone who was hateful. I personally think people should practice what they preach. If they preach love and tolerance then they should be loving and tolerant.

That said, I personally hope that he is in a better place now.

Prejudice and ignorance should not be met with the same respect as understanding and tolerance. We need to stand up and make a clear message that it is wrong, we should be loud about it, and maybe even a bit of stinker about it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Prejudice and ignorance should not be met with the same respect as understanding and tolerance. We need to stand up and make a clear message that it is wrong, we should be loud about it, and maybe even a bit of stinker about it.

I agree. I'm glad the ******* is dead. To hell with him. I'm half black, a transsexual and pansexual/queer. Whatever good he did decades ago is permenently tainted by his vile actions throughout the rest of his life. He deserves no respect and I'm not a fan of the spineless and false pity and compassion some - in the LGBT community, no less! - are showing him. That guy wanted to ruin us. He'd probably would've burnt us at the stake if he had the chance. He wanted us to be eternally roasted and tortured in hell, as it was. Not to mention that he was a horrific child abuser who beat his kids with implements like a mattock handle. Oh, and he encouraged men in punching their wives and his kids said he threw their mom down a flight of stairs! So I take pleasure in the demise of one of the enemies of "my people". I just really wish that his daughter, Shirley, follows him quickly into the grave!

 

[LuisDantas]

Prejudice and ignorance should not be met with the same respect as understanding and tolerance. We need to stand up and make a clear message that it is wrong, we should be loud about it, and maybe even a bit of stinker about it.

I must agree. We must learn to accept people, and also to denounce their failings, at least when they cause so much damage.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Prejudice and ignorance should not be met with the same respect as understanding and tolerance. We need to stand up and make a clear message that it is wrong, we should be loud about it, and maybe even a bit of stinker about it.

I don't think anyone is claiming he is a saint, but simply acknowledging that he did do some good in the world. There is also they notion that they aren't going to sink to his level and return hatred with hatred.

I agree. I'm glad the ******* is dead. To hell with him. I'm half black, a transsexual and pansexual/queer. Whatever good he did decades ago is permenently tainted by his vile actions throughout the rest of his life. He deserves no respect and I'm not a fan of the spineless and false pity and compassion some - in the LGBT community, no less! - are showing him. That guy wanted to ruin us. He'd probably would've burnt us at the stake if he had the chance. He wanted us to be eternally roasted and tortured in hell, as it was. Not to mention that he was a horrific child abuser who beat his kids with implements like a mattock handle. Oh, and he encouraged men in punching their wives and his kids said he threw their mom down a flight of stairs! So I take pleasure in the demise of one of the enemies of "my people". I just really wish that his daughter, Shirley, follows him quickly into the grave!

So do you actually know these are false pities and compassions? As for the burning us at the stake, don't you think they already would have resorted to violence by know if they were going to? He may have been obnoxious and inflammatory, but he wasn't a threat. I think in the long run he will end up doing good for the GLBT community, as many groups and individuals suffered their insensitive and hateful protests. We have a clear picture of what hatred looks like and how ugly it is.
But Fred Phelps should be remembered for what he did. He was a venom spewing, child abusing pastor, but we shouldn't excuse the good he done and rewrite history.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't think anyone is claiming he is a saint, but simply acknowledging that he did do some good in the world. There is also they notion that they aren't going to sink to his level and return hatred with hatred.


So do you actually know these are false pities and compassions? As for the burning us at the stake, don't you think they already would have resorted to violence by know if they were going to? He may have been obnoxious and inflammatory, but he wasn't a threat. I think in the long run he will end up doing good for the GLBT community, as many groups and individuals suffered their insensitive and hateful protests. We have a clear picture of what hatred looks like and how ugly it is.
But Fred Phelps should be remembered for what he did. He was a venom spewing, child abusing pastor, but we shouldn't excuse the good he done and rewrite history.

Yep. This. All of it. Can't frubal.