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France: Macron defends blasphemy

atanu

Member
Premium Member
'PARIS (AP) — French President Emmanuel Macron has criticized what he calls “Islamic separatism” in his country and those who seek French citizenship without accepting the “right to commit blasphemy.”'

Read more here: Macron decries 'Islamic separatism,' defends blasphemy

I feel that the matter is not so simple. Do you remember Zidane's head butt? Was it wrong or was it appropriate, given that his sister was being blasphemed?
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
Who is Zidane?

Sorry. I forget that I am ancient.

Zidane was a professional soccer player of France, who captained France in 2006 World Cup against Italy. In the finals, he was sent out because he head-butted an Italian player, who fell.

Zinedine Zidane - Wikipedia



It was unfortunate for Zidane, but I cannot say that he was at fault.

The Italian player kept on tugging at Zidane’s jersey, to which Zidane said “You can keep it after the match”.

The Italian retorted back “I will rather have your sister”. And Zidane acted the way he did.

My point (I am always in unliked minority) is that why should one knowingly blaspheme?

...
 
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FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
'PARIS (AP) — French President Emmanuel Macron has criticized what he calls “Islamic separatism” in his country and those who seek French citizenship without accepting the “right to commit blasphemy.”'

Read more here: Macron decries 'Islamic separatism,' defends blasphemy

Why some has the right and freedom to commit blasphemy while the others aren't free to criticize blasphemy,
why if I have an opinion against blasphemy then I'm not a French man, what kind of stupidity is this.

I recall one poster said that blasphemy isn't allowed in Great Britain, good that president Macaroni didn't
say that who don't accept blasphemy shouldn't live in Europe.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
I think we need more blasphemy.

The real issue isn't blasphemy, but freedom of speech, it seems. Or freedom in general.

There are 2 popular notions about the longer term on this question of a tyrannical religion that wants to control people (control speech, etc.).

1 idea is to allow some to immigrate on the idea that coming here to a nation that is defined as being about 'freedom' they might convert to endorsing freedom. The opposing idea is that they might slowly take over by increasing over decades to become a powerful political force, and then degrade freedom. I think this 2nd view is somewhat plausible, but I'm sanguine about it. I think good things are degraded constantly, and what makes them thrive isn't a lack of opposition, but that they are valuable.

For instance, the current president routinely will attack any journalist or reporter who reports on his wrongs -- e.g., he tries to get them fired, or tries to make people think their news organization is fading and will die, etc.

But could this president actually harm freedom of speech in reality? I think it would be pretty impossible for him to accomplish.

So, instead of worrying about him, I think he's only another way that the nation will again learn over time why we are against demagogues and why freedom matters so much.

In a like way, even an evil ideology (or new evil variant) is only a passing storm.
 

atanu

Member
Premium Member
You have a different meaning for the word blasphemous than I do, if it includes trash talking an opponent in a sports match.
Tom

You may be correct. But I am pointing to the essence of the issue, considering that 1) in most wide term blasphemy is ‘evil speaking’ or slander and 2) the emotional impact.

YMMV.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
You may be correct. But I am pointing to the essence of the issue, considering that 1) in most wide term blasphemy is ‘evil speaking’ or slander and 2) the emotional impact.

YMMV.
This is likely a cultural/language thing. That's not at all what I mean by blasphemy. What I mean is denigrating a religion or religious leader.
Tom
 

MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
This thread comes across as threatening. Why are you on a religous forum if you believe this? If you blasphemy me I can use ancient technique called equanimity (non-violent protector of compassion) and your sadistic **** will start to hurt for apparently no reason. Hell is a prison for the devil, and by the devil.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Sorry. I forget that I am ancient.

Zidane was a professional soccer player of France, who captained France in 2006 World Cup against Italy. In the finals, he was sent out because he head-butted an Italian player, who fell.

Zinedine Zidane - Wikipedia



It was unfortunate for Zidane, but I cannot say that he was at fault.

The Italian player kept on tugging at Zidane’s jersey, to which Zidane said “You can keep it after the match”.

The Italian retorted back “I will rather have your sister”. And Zidane acted the way he did.

My point (I am always in unliked minority) is that why should one knowingly blaspheme?

...
So someone makes a funny joke and you think for being witty they deserve physical violence?
I'm beginning to suspect there is a reason you are part of a disliked crowd lol

As to your point, blasphemy can educate us through humour to re-prioritise the things we should take seriously, but it is not always about humour, sometimes its just good old fashioned venting against things we don't like. Which I see as natural and healthy.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Why some has the right and freedom to commit blasphemy while the others aren't free to criticize blasphemy,
why if I have an opinion against blasphemy then I'm not a French man, what kind of stupidity is this.

I recall one poster said that blasphemy isn't allowed in Great Britain, good that president Macaroni didn't
say that who don't accept blasphemy shouldn't live in Europe.
You are perfectly free to criticise blasphemy, just don't expect to be taken on as a citizen if you criticise the right of others to blaspheme.

If you criticise the right of others to blaspheme you may freely do so from countries that accept opposition to the right to blaspheme.

It's not stupidity just because you assert it is without recourse to reason.
It is protecting the most essential need for competition of ideas so that bad ideas aren't protected from criticism. Indeed it is failure to protect such essential competition that is the real stupidity
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
You are perfectly free to criticise blasphemy, just don't expect to be taken on as a citizen if you criticise the right of others to blaspheme.

If you criticise the right of others to blaspheme you may freely do so from countries that accept opposition to the right to blaspheme.

It's not stupidity just because you assert it is without recourse to reason.
It is protecting the most essential need for competition of ideas so that bad ideas aren't protected from criticism. Indeed it is failure to protect such essential competition that is the real stupidity

People are free whether to accept or reject blasphemy.
How I should accept blasphemy in order to be a French citizen, why I should be forced to accept
blasphemy, why I can't express my feelings about it.

If someone has the right to insult you and said to you your sister is a whore, what will you feel.
Why we don't just respect each other than be glad with the right to insult our religions.
if you chose to be Bahai, why I should insult your choice, you're free what to choose
and I expect you to just respect my choice and not insulting it.
I thought that Bahai people are kind and don't like to mock and to blaspheme religions of the others,
but you have the right to believe that blasphemy is a good act..
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You may be correct. But I am pointing to the essence of the issue, considering that 1) in most wide term blasphemy is ‘evil speaking’ or slander and 2) the emotional impact.

YMMV.
No blasphemy is not evil speech, and it doesn't cover slander
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
No blasphemy is not evil speech, and it doesn't cover slander
Can i ask why it is ok for some people to say blasphemy toward other people or groups of religioues people, but to say I am against blasphemy is seen as bad?

If you can say blasphemic words to others why do people react with more blasphemy instead of say, ok if i can say this, you can protect your belief by being against blasphemy?
 
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danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
People are free whether to accept or reject blasphemy.
How I should accept blasphemy in order to be a French citizen, why I should be forced to accept
blasphemy, why I can't express my feelings about it.

If someone has the right to insult you and said to you your sister is a whore, what will you feel.
Why we don't just respect each other than be glad with the right to insult our religions.
if you chose to be Bahai, why I should insult your choice, you're free what to choose
and I expect you to just respect my choice and not insulting it.
I thought that Bahai people are kind and don't like to mock and to blaspheme religions of the others,
but you have the right to believe that blasphemy is a good act..
First of all I'm not a Baha'i.
Second of all regardless of how I feel about someone saying unkind things about my sister I don't have the right to respond with violence.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Answered in post #51
But the answer in #51 is only onesided, it take your stand, and refuse to accept that some people see blasphemy as wrong, does it not?
I agree that critique of some religioues people "extremists" are often a righ action, but even then one should hear their answers.

And in the case of blasphemy, does it bring any good at all? If it does not are not those who say blasphemy just as wrong as those you want to "hit" with your blasphemy?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
First of all I'm not a Baha'i.
Second of all regardless of how I feel about someone saying unkind things about my sister I don't have the right to respond with violence.

Where did I mention that violence should be the answer, actually when the French player Zidane used violence
against the Italian player because he insulted him, he was regarded as a hero in France.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
But the answer in #51 is only onesided, it take your stand, and refuse to accept that some people see blasphemy as wrong, does it not?
It accepts that people see blasphemy as wrong, just doesn't accept that the right to blaspheme should be taken away from them by migrants.

I agree that critique of some religioues people "extremists" are often a righ action, but even then one should hear their answers.
We can hear their answers through the internet or other appropriate places, they can make themselves heard without migrating.

And in the case of blasphemy, does it bring any good at all?
Yes it does, it allows bad ideas to be critiqued so they can be replaced with good ideas, it allows character development and it allows people to vent

If it does not are not those who say blasphemy just as wrong as those you want to "hit" with your blasphemy?
Blasphemy does not "hit" and i see it as inappropriate to use words which confuse it with physical violence.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Where did I mention that violence should be the answer, actually when the French player Zidane used violence
against the Italian player because he insulted him, he was regarded as a hero in France.
That only shows the immaturity of certain French citizens to me.

It does nothing to demonstrate why violence was appropriate.
 
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