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Fox Once Again Puts the Thumbscrews to it Viewer's Minds

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Had Luther been in a better position to have seen more precisely into it than he did, he would have been able to refine his famous and already remarkably accurate saying into something closer to this, "The wages of liars are ample, but the truthful go begging."

Propaganda turned into a gold mine in both the UK and the US roughly at about the same time, circa 1920, when the newly emerging public relations industry in both countries began yoking science to the task of manufacturing delusions increasingly well designed to maximize their appeal and acceptability to specific audiences, or to mass audiences, both.

Since then, the notion that 'reality is now for sale' is merely a poetic way of stating a key truth about how people in most societies so often understand and interpret so much of the world around them.

Crucially significant here, the public relations industry started out in World War I as a way for governments to manipulate public awareness and feelings in order to align people's behavior with their policies. It was established as a business industry by many of the same people who began their careers figuring how to best manipulate people to gin them up to demand and support war. More so in the US than in the UK, but certainly in both.

Governments are still a major source of income for the industry in every nation there is one. The concept that propaganda is an intrinsic part of what governments do, is long established as political commonsense worldwide.

As an aside, it's my opinion that anyone who honestly wants to understand how well a representative democracy can work to the benefit of most people, rich and poor alike, must see that topic in light of how well such governments worked before the 1920s in America on both the state and Federal levels. The period of the New Deal in some key ways is only a valuable qualification on that theme, which it seems to me is best understood in light of what came before it.​

To me, the video is exceptionally well packed with accurate comments and takes on the most likely ways Fox's decision to replace Lou Dobbs with two specific intellectuals is certainly meant to ramp up their effectiveness as a propaganda outlet for the network's politics, among other goals.

Both intellectuals have for decades been key players in providing false or misleading cover for the political decisions that have brought about both globalization along libertarian and neoliberal lines, and the two tier economy in the US today that stacks the various decks in order to favor the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.

For example: Laffer's 'curve' is a bit of groundless speculation that always plays a vital role in undercutting opposition and providing cover for supporting tax cuts that are good for the rich, don't benefit most others, and actually work out as bad for most people's quality of life.

I'm getting to the point where I think it's almost morally necessary to remind anyone reading something relevant to the wealth gap in America (or to things like Brexit in the UK) that most people's ideas about it or about anything having to do with it closely conform with someone's propaganda about those things. While that is truer on the right, than on the left, neither side does enough thinking for itself these days for anyone to credibly believe they themselves are wholly free of being someone's fool.

In other words, please be careful about believing anything you are not certain you have good reasons for it to be true. We can only do our best, but so many of us aren't even aware this is an area where we would be best off trying harder. The way I got it figured, if I'm going to screw up my life, and help other people screw up theirs, by reading false maps, then passing them along to others, then I might as well draw up those maps myself. At least then, I might have a chance of limiting the damage.


 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
In other words, please be careful about believing anything you are not certain you have good reasons for it to be true.

Absolutely.

The trick here lies in the fact that no one wants to believe the 'source' they have gotten their information from, and formed their worldviews on is propaganda...
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Fox news was created by Murdoch and Ailes with the avowed purpose of Promoting the Republican party and corporate. interests. When taken to task on its lies, it won a court ruling supporting its right to lie. Fox News Has a First Amendment Right to Lie – Updated

"Judge: So, does Fox News lie in its coverage of the news?

Fox News Lawyer: Well, of course, your honor, have you watched our network!? But seriously, it’s not as if there’s anything legally wrong with that!"


FOX NEWS Lawyers Tell Court: Our Audience Doesn't Assume We Tell the Truth
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Fox News Lawyer: Well, of course, your honor, have you watched our network!? But seriously, it’s not as if there’s anything legally wrong with that!"
Compulsive liar of a cable news network.
But their lawyer? Honest.:cool:
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Absolutely.

The trick here lies in the fact that no one wants to believe the 'source' they have gotten their information from, and formed their worldviews on is propaganda...
Well, that's how propaganda works, though. It's intended to ratify some delusions that we already hold, as a means of getting us to dismiss others. With the result that we become more aligned with whatever delusions the propagandists wish us to hold. And it works especially well when the delusions they want to enforce are the delusions that we like. Though that's not necessarily a prerequisite of effective propaganda.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Well, that's how propaganda works, though. It's intended to ratify some delusions that we already hold, as a means of getting us to dismiss others. With the result that we become more aligned with whatever delusions the propagandists wish us to hold. And it works especially well when the delusions they want to enforce are the delusions that we like. Though that's not necessarily a prerequisite of effective propaganda.

Yes, the best techniques exploit the advantages gained by attacking our many intrinsic vulnerabilities to being lied to in some way or manner that we jump out of our brains to bite the hook as hard as we can.

But I'm assuming you are unaware of the skill set most likely to be possessed by nearly any moderately competent salesperson. If so, you have a gap in your understanding wide enough to drive through your notion that propaganda needs something better than merely a brain for it to do its job. From sales to PR is an easy translation here.

The same 'jumping out of brains behavior' can be prompted by using techniques that in no way depend on any kind of prepared battle ground.

There are things about propaganda I will not publicly discuss simply because I don't think it's wise to give matches to young children, then walk off leaving them without any coach to help them sort out things. And I do know, anyone can find almost all of what I know simply by reading a few books, and maybe talk these things over with a handful of skilled and experienced people. My own career in the 'persuasion industry', as I have called it, was useful to me, but most likely overkill in this context.

Still, just because a kid can get matches elsewhere, does not mean I'm going to be the one to give him any.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Yes, the best techniques exploit the advantages gained by attacking our many intrinsic vulnerabilities to being lied to in some way or manner that we jump out of our brains to bite the hook as hard as we can.

But I'm assuming you are unaware of the skill set most likely to be possessed by nearly any moderately competent salesperson. If so, you have a gap in your understanding wide enough to drive through your notion that propaganda needs something better than merely a brain for it to do its job. From sales to PR is an easy translation here.

The same 'jumping out of brains behavior' can be prompted by using techniques that in no way depend on any kind of prepared battle ground.

There are things about propaganda I will not publicly discuss simply because I don't think it's wise to give matches to young children, then walk off leaving them without any coach to help them sort out things. And I do know, anyone can find almost all of what I know simply by reading a few books, and maybe talk these things over with a handful of skilled and experienced people. My own career in the 'persuasion industry', as I have called it, was useful to me, but most likely overkill in this context.

Still, just because a kid can get matches elsewhere, does not mean I'm going to be the one to give him any.
Wow! You're SO MUCH smarter than me that you don't dare enlighten me as I might harm myself or others with with the incredible power of your superior knowledge! I'd better run back to stupid-land before I hurt somebody! :)
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
Yes, the best techniques exploit the advantages gained by attacking our many intrinsic vulnerabilities to being lied to in some way or manner that we jump out of our brains to bite the hook as hard as we can.

But I'm assuming you are unaware of the skill set most likely to be possessed by nearly any moderately competent salesperson. If so, you have a gap in your understanding wide enough to drive through your notion that propaganda needs something better than merely a brain for it to do its job. From sales to PR is an easy translation here.

The same 'jumping out of brains behavior' can be prompted by using techniques that in no way depend on any kind of prepared battle ground.

There are things about propaganda I will not publicly discuss simply because I don't think it's wise to give matches to young children, then walk off leaving them without any coach to help them sort out things. And I do know, anyone can find almost all of what I know simply by reading a few books, and maybe talk these things over with a handful of skilled and experienced people. My own career in the 'persuasion industry', as I have called it, was useful to me, but most likely overkill in this context.

Still, just because a kid can get matches elsewhere, does not mean I'm going to be the one to give him any.
I think we are fooling ourselves if we believe that being aware that these techniques exist, or even how they are being employed, is a blanket inoculation against being manipulated by media actors.


I feel that a lot of people also underestimate just how much of our factual understanding of the world is ultimately based on trust in authorities and economically or culturally influential actors. In a lot of ways, our current crisis in journalism may be based on a fundamental disconnect between people with regards to which of these authorities are worth investing one's trust in.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The trick here lies in the fact that no one wants to believe the 'source' they have gotten their information from, and formed their worldviews on is propaganda...
I agree.
The problem is with people who disagree with me.
They should broaden their sources.
 
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