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Four states of consciousness in Mandukaya Upanishad

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
The first two states (waking and dreaming) look pretty self-explanatory, but I'm less clear about the other two.
Regarding the third type, dreamless sleep (susupti), can much actually be said about it? I don't doubt there is some level of consciousness present in deep sleep, since one can by woken up from it, eg by a loud noise. But it doesn't seem like we're conscious OF anything in the dreamless state, and we can't remember anything about it when we wake up.
Thoughts?
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
The states of consciousness become subtler starting with the first, the conscious waking state, as the gross state, symbolized by the 'A' sound in ॐ and is associated with the bottom curve in the symbol.

The second, the subconscious dream state, is representative of the subtle state and is said to be a transitional state between waking consciousness and deep sleep, symbolized by the 'U' sound in ॐ, associated with the right curve in the symbol.

And to the point of your question, the third, the unconscious deep sleep state, is representative of the causal state, represented by the 'M' sound in ॐ, is the latent state associated with the top curve, the state which is free from desire or attachments, and as close as one can get to "pure consciousness" in maya. Time moves differently in this state, as in the nights, where you lie down for sound sleep in a dreamless state and you appear to wake up moments after your head hits the pillow, though several hours have passed in maya.

The fourth, turiya, symbolized by the silence after "Aum (Om)" and is associated with the uppermost dot (above the top-most curve representing maya) in ॐ. It can be experienced in the state of samadhi.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
But it doesn't seem like we're conscious OF anything in the dreamless state, and we can't remember anything about it when we wake up. Thoughts?
You may not be conscious of it, but the autonomic nervous system is working with no let-up. It makes you turn to the other side while you sleep to relive pressure on muscles on that side. It controls a whole lot of functions including our heart and breathing.

"The autonomic nervous system (ANS), formerly the vegetative nervous system, is a division of the peripheral nervous system that supplies smooth muscle and glands, and thus influences the function of internal organs. The autonomic nervous system is a control system that acts largely unconsciously and regulates bodily functions such as the heart rate, digestion, respiratory rate, pupillary response, urination, and sexual arousal. This system is the primary mechanism in control of the fight-or-flight response.

Within the brain, the autonomic nervous system is regulated by the hypothalamus. Autonomic functions include control of respiration, cardiac regulation (the cardiac control center), vasomotor activity (the vasomotor center), and certain reflex actions such as coughing, sneezing, swallowing and vomiting. Those are then subdivided into other areas and are also linked to ANS subsystems and nervous systems external to the brain. The hypothalamus, just above the brain stem, acts as an integrator for autonomic functions, receiving ANS regulatory input from the limbic system to do so."
Autonomic nervous system - Wikipedia

Turiya is when you understand the working of the universe including that of your body.
(Of course, I give the scientific explanations rather than the exotic ones, to which generally people will not agree). :)
 

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
You may not be conscious of it, but the autonomic nervous system is working with no let-up. It makes you turn to the other side while you sleep to relive pressure on muscles on that side. It controls a whole lot of functions including our heart and breathing.

"The autonomic nervous system (ANS), formerly the vegetative nervous system, is a division of the peripheral nervous system that supplies smooth muscle and glands, and thus influences the function of internal organs. The autonomic nervous system is a control system that acts largely unconsciously and regulates bodily functions such as the heart rate, digestion, respiratory rate, pupillary response, urination, and sexual arousal. This system is the primary mechanism in control of the fight-or-flight response.

Within the brain, the autonomic nervous system is regulated by the hypothalamus. Autonomic functions include control of respiration, cardiac regulation (the cardiac control center), vasomotor activity (the vasomotor center), and certain reflex actions such as coughing, sneezing, swallowing and vomiting. Those are then subdivided into other areas and are also linked to ANS subsystems and nervous systems external to the brain. The hypothalamus, just above the brain stem, acts as an integrator for autonomic functions, receiving ANS regulatory input from the limbic system to do so."
Autonomic nervous system - Wikipedia

Turiya is when you understand the working of the universe including that of your body.
(Of course, I give the scientific explanations rather than the exotic ones, to which generally people will not agree). :)

Yes, I'm aware of the ANS, but the question here is more like "what happens to consciousness in deep sleep?" I did some googling, but there doesn't seem to be a scientific consensus. It's as if consciousness goes into "standby mode" or something.
Though there are different ideas about what consciousness is.

Actually the four states of consciousness reminded me a little of the five sheaths (Taittiriya Upanishad), the idea of layers, or progressively going deeper.
 
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Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
The states of consciousness become subtler starting with the first, the conscious waking state, as the gross state, symbolized by the 'A' sound in ॐ and is associated with the bottom curve in the symbol.

The second, the subconscious dream state, is representative of the subtle state and is said to be a transitional state between waking consciousness and deep sleep, symbolized by the 'U' sound in ॐ, associated with the right curve in the symbol.

And to the point of your question, the third, the unconscious deep sleep state, is representative of the causal state, represented by the 'M' sound in ॐ, is the latent state associated with the top curve, the state which is free from desire or attachments, and as close as one can get to "pure consciousness" in maya. Time moves differently in this state, as in the nights, where you lie down for sound sleep in a dreamless state and you appear to wake up moments after your head hits the pillow, though several hours have passed in maya.

The fourth, turiya, symbolized by the silence after "Aum (Om)" and is associated with the uppermost dot (above the top-most curve representing maya) in ॐ. It can be experienced in the state of samadhi.

Yes, I find the correspondence with AUM quite interesting, as I've been doing some chanting.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I did some googling, but there doesn't seem to be a scientific consensus. It's as if consciousness goes into "standby mode" or something.
Let us divide it into two, waking consciousness (when the mind and body both are aware) and sleep/deep sleep consciousness (where only body is aware). Basically ANS and the rest. ANS is active even in waking state.
I would not speak about exotic / esoteric explanations. That is not my field. :)
 
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