Formless and Void

[Jayhawker Soule]

Perhaps I am misunderstanding your use of the word instantiation. I took this to mean God forming heaven and earth out what already existed, the primordial chaos.

Yes.

As to the scholarship I'm using, right now this you.

That strikes me as intellectually irresponsible in the extreme.

"Scholarship" is both real and valuable, and there exists a true wealth of relevant scholarship -- ANE studies, theology, philology, etc. -- when it comes to the books of the Torah. To develop and then promote an opinion without the slightest recourse to this wealth suggests a remarkably thoughtless hubris.

Not all opinions are creted equal and, to quote Hubert Humphrey, “The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.”

I have a general understanding of the basics of Biblical theology, the basic physics of the big bang concept, Taoist cosmology, and a vague understanding of quantum physics and a strong understanding of the English language. I'm no scholar but I have an inquiring mind and am ready to be proven wrong. Prolly not not your personal ideal sounding board.

One would think that "an enquiring mind" would prompt more than participating in internet forum banter.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes.

That strikes me as intellectually irresponsible in the extreme.

"Scholarship" is both real and valuable, and there exists a true wealth of relevant scholarship -- ANE studies, theology, philology, etc. -- when it comes to the books of the Torah. To develop and then promote an opinion without the slightest recourse to this wealth suggests a remarkably thoughtless hubris.

Not all opinions are creted equal and, to quote Hubert Humphrey, “The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.”



One would think that "an enquiring mind" would prompt more than participating in internet forum banter.

Well clearly your not going to offer much. Thanks for jaywalking across my thread.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yes.

That strikes me as intellectually irresponsible in the extreme.

"Scholarship" is both real and valuable, and there exists a true wealth of relevant scholarship -- ANE studies, theology, philology, etc. -- when it comes to the books of the Torah. To develop and then promote an opinion without the slightest recourse to this wealth suggests a remarkably thoughtless hubris.

Not all opinions are creted equal and, to quote Hubert Humphrey, “The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.”



One would think that "an enquiring mind" would prompt more than participating in internet forum banter.

Oh and thank you. It's been awhile since anyone has resorted to personal attacks on me in order to win a debate...by the mighty Oz no less.

 

[Timbertrail]

The world that was formed in Genesis1:1 was formless and void according to Genesis1:2. This sounds like a good way to describe the indescribable. This leaves me to wonder, what was the nature of heaven in 1:1. Was it describable?

The answer from Mr.Yuanwu
A. The Source cannot be defined.
1 The Source is infinite—-anything infinite cannot be defined; anything can be defined is finite.
2 If we have to give it a definition, it can only be defined in this way: The Source = infinity.
B. The Source can only be described by the most basic descriptions.
1 The Source is infinite.
2 The Source is intangible and invisible.
3 The Source is eternity. It is without beginning or end.
4 Question: What is The Source? Answer: It is not something one can express in human words. Or, The Source is everything. And nothing is The Source (The Source is infinite).
C. The infinite and unlimited features of The Source.
1 The Source is infinite. At the same time, it contains countless infinite items.
2 Although The Source is infinite, it creates and contains all of the finite.
3 Although The Source is intangible and invisible, it creates and contains all entities and appearances.
4 Although The Source has no beginning and no end, it creates and contains all of the beginnings and all of the ends.
5 The Source’s creation is completely spontaneous. (Otherwise it returns to the intangible and invisible—like a statue of statelessness.)
6 There are two spontaneous means of creation for The Source: automatic and active. (Automatic: in the material world, it is mistaken as “inertia.” Active: in the material world, it is mistaken as a “mutation.”)
7 The Source’s creation is infinite. (The creation is never-ending.)
8 The infinite nature of The Source cannot be logical or reasoned; it is unreasonable. (It goes beyond all of the limited creature’s imagination.)
D. The Source cannot be reasoned—below is the indescribable description:
1 The Source is not only the one, but is also the infinite. For The Source, one is equal to one. One plus one equals one. One plus one plus one plus one plus one is still equal to one. It cannot be logically reasoned here. In fact, one is equal to infinity.
2 The Source has no space. At the same time, it creates and contains all space. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Zero is equal to infinity.
3 The Source has no time. At the same time, it creates and contains all time. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Zero is equal to infinity. The past equals now and equals the future.
4 The source has no beginning and no end. It creates and contains all beginnings and ends. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Its existence has not started nor ended.
5 The Source is intangible and invisible. It creates and contains all entities and appearances. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (The intangible creates the tangible and the existence of things springs from the non-existence of things.)
6 The Source has no sound and no light. But it creates and contains sound and light. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (Neither sound nor light create light nor sound and the existence of things springs from the non-existence of things.)
7 The Source is not anywhere, but it creates and contains all places. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The original coordinates, which equals any coordinates. (The “absolute distance" between any two points is zero. "Relative distance" is the relative frame of reference.)
8 The Source is infinitely small, but also infinitely big. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Infinitely small equals infinitely big. (The "absolute difference" between any two volumes is zero; the "relative difference" is the relative frame of reference.)
9 The Source has no polarity, but it creates and contains all polarities. Each creation of The Source is one polar—one representation. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (Everything is one. The individual is the manifestation of unity. It is the relationship between performance and essence, rather than the relationship between the part and the whole.)
10 The Source is an infinite abstraction. At the same time, it creates and contains infinitely concrete items. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The abstract contains concrete items.
11 The Source of self-knowledge and infinite knowledgeable creates and contains all unknowing and all limited knowledge. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Self-knowledge has a sense of unknowing.
12 The action or performance of The Source is infinite spontaneity; it is not dependent upon any motivation—only self-motivation. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Self-sufficiency, self-motivation, and self-sufficiency are perpetually made by creating something from nothing—creating sufficiency without resource.
13 The action or performance of The Source is infinitely random. At the same time, it creates and contains all finite rules and logic. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The randomness of the world contains rules—randomness contains logic.
14 The Source—and how it works—goes far beyond any logic and any theory that humans can imagine. Human beings on earth—with stiff frames of rigid logic and cocoon-bound box theories—are just games created by The Source. It is too difficult to understand existence. In fact, absolute infinity and the positive/negative integration of The Source by human beings is limited. (But it can be perceived through special practices!)
E. The description of the characteristics of The Source by asking: What is the Source? Answer: There is no human word. If we have to give a reply, we can only give a few descriptions:
1 Spirit: From the perspective of nature—this is the closest description—though not accurate.
2 Consciousness: From the perspective of its characteristics; this is also an inaccurate approximation.
3 Freewill: From the perspective of its function. This is also an inaccurate approximation.
4 Voidness: From the perspective of its appearance. When The Source is without creation, it is in a state of non-manifestation.
5 Infinity: From the perspective of its definition. This is the most appropriate definition.
F. A general description of the Source and its mode of operation.
The first time I merged with The Source, in addition to the direct perception above,
the simplest, most direct and most common description of the source and its operation
in modern languages as follow:
(It was also the first sentence of my blog and the answer that I have given many times to the questions we have had since 2008.)
ï An infinite freewill or spirit—neither rising nor ceasing—has inexhaustible, spontaneous imagination. Its expressions are infinitely diverse throughout the universe. It encompasses all things and their respective regulations and irregularities.

 

[David T]

The new age movement started a whole process of fuzzy feel good thinking. In the real search for the ethereal their thinking became ethereal.
Jaywalker seems to be trying to make a point about the void but he's an ethereal presence at best.

I like to start at the beginning. Every story needs a firm foundation and that is Genesis when it comes to understanding the Biblical world. Imo.

Since we can't conceptualize nothing I think it's impossible to speak of the abilities of nothing.

I have a degree in theology I know that's lame so trying to understand the bible through scholarship is like studying comedy trying to be funny. Ain't going to happen no matter what. I have a ton of classes taught by well meaning PhDs good people horrid at the text. They love the text, but so what, it's irrelevant. That's why the chaos in religion so good luck won't happen. Scholars ha...

Btw theology is so lame St Thomas Aquinas had an experience, said everything he wrote was straw and stopped writing. In spite of that the church loved his theology!!!! It's like writing and then turning and going that is BS and the church makes you a Saint based on your writing. Nuts, not Aquinas the church. That's,"normal"...it's beyond lame its the "higher functioning" region of the brain.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

The answer from Mr.Yuanwu
A. The Source cannot be defined.
1 The Source is infinite—-anything infinite cannot be defined; anything can be defined is finite.
2 If we have to give it a definition, it can only be defined in this way: The Source = infinity.
B. The Source can only be described by the most basic descriptions.
1 The Source is infinite.
2 The Source is intangible and invisible.
3 The Source is eternity. It is without beginning or end.
4 Question: What is The Source? Answer: It is not something one can express in human words. Or, The Source is everything. And nothing is The Source (The Source is infinite).
C. The infinite and unlimited features of The Source.
1 The Source is infinite. At the same time, it contains countless infinite items.
2 Although The Source is infinite, it creates and contains all of the finite.
3 Although The Source is intangible and invisible, it creates and contains all entities and appearances.
4 Although The Source has no beginning and no end, it creates and contains all of the beginnings and all of the ends.
5 The Source’s creation is completely spontaneous. (Otherwise it returns to the intangible and invisible—like a statue of statelessness.)
6 There are two spontaneous means of creation for The Source: automatic and active. (Automatic: in the material world, it is mistaken as “inertia.” Active: in the material world, it is mistaken as a “mutation.”)
7 The Source’s creation is infinite. (The creation is never-ending.)
8 The infinite nature of The Source cannot be logical or reasoned; it is unreasonable. (It goes beyond all of the limited creature’s imagination.)
D. The Source cannot be reasoned—below is the indescribable description:
1 The Source is not only the one, but is also the infinite. For The Source, one is equal to one. One plus one equals one. One plus one plus one plus one plus one is still equal to one. It cannot be logically reasoned here. In fact, one is equal to infinity.
2 The Source has no space. At the same time, it creates and contains all space. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Zero is equal to infinity.
3 The Source has no time. At the same time, it creates and contains all time. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Zero is equal to infinity. The past equals now and equals the future.
4 The source has no beginning and no end. It creates and contains all beginnings and ends. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Its existence has not started nor ended.
5 The Source is intangible and invisible. It creates and contains all entities and appearances. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (The intangible creates the tangible and the existence of things springs from the non-existence of things.)
6 The Source has no sound and no light. But it creates and contains sound and light. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (Neither sound nor light create light nor sound and the existence of things springs from the non-existence of things.)
7 The Source is not anywhere, but it creates and contains all places. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The original coordinates, which equals any coordinates. (The “absolute distance" between any two points is zero. "Relative distance" is the relative frame of reference.)
8 The Source is infinitely small, but also infinitely big. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Infinitely small equals infinitely big. (The "absolute difference" between any two volumes is zero; the "relative difference" is the relative frame of reference.)
9 The Source has no polarity, but it creates and contains all polarities. Each creation of The Source is one polar—one representation. It cannot be logically reasoned here. (Everything is one. The individual is the manifestation of unity. It is the relationship between performance and essence, rather than the relationship between the part and the whole.)
10 The Source is an infinite abstraction. At the same time, it creates and contains infinitely concrete items. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The abstract contains concrete items.
11 The Source of self-knowledge and infinite knowledgeable creates and contains all unknowing and all limited knowledge. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Self-knowledge has a sense of unknowing.
12 The action or performance of The Source is infinite spontaneity; it is not dependent upon any motivation—only self-motivation. It cannot be logically reasoned here. Self-sufficiency, self-motivation, and self-sufficiency are perpetually made by creating something from nothing—creating sufficiency without resource.
13 The action or performance of The Source is infinitely random. At the same time, it creates and contains all finite rules and logic. It cannot be logically reasoned here. The randomness of the world contains rules—randomness contains logic.
14 The Source—and how it works—goes far beyond any logic and any theory that humans can imagine. Human beings on earth—with stiff frames of rigid logic and cocoon-bound box theories—are just games created by The Source. It is too difficult to understand existence. In fact, absolute infinity and the positive/negative integration of The Source by human beings is limited. (But it can be perceived through special practices!)
E. The description of the characteristics of The Source by asking: What is the Source? Answer: There is no human word. If we have to give a reply, we can only give a few descriptions:
1 Spirit: From the perspective of nature—this is the closest description—though not accurate.
2 Consciousness: From the perspective of its characteristics; this is also an inaccurate approximation.
3 Freewill: From the perspective of its function. This is also an inaccurate approximation.
4 Voidness: From the perspective of its appearance. When The Source is without creation, it is in a state of non-manifestation.
5 Infinity: From the perspective of its definition. This is the most appropriate definition.
F. A general description of the Source and its mode of operation.
The first time I merged with The Source, in addition to the direct perception above,
the simplest, most direct and most common description of the source and its operation
in modern languages as follow:
(It was also the first sentence of my blog and the answer that I have given many times to the questions we have had since 2008.)
ï An infinite freewill or spirit—neither rising nor ceasing—has inexhaustible, spontaneous imagination. Its expressions are infinitely diverse throughout the universe. It encompasses all things and their respective regulations and irregularities.

Wow, I wasn't asking about the source but I'm glad you got that out of your system.