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Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi had priests come to her San Francisco home to preform an "exorcism

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Secular beliefs of the faithful are
typically rooted in their religion.
Secular means without religion.
adjective
  1. 1.
    denoting attitudes, activities, or other things that have no religious or spiritual basis.
The difference...
We push the belief of
less pushing of beliefs on others.
To a fundamentalist Evangelical Protestant that is pushing godlessness on them and society.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
No, she's on the evil side for supporting abortion and working to keep or make it legal, which Catholics are not allowed to do at all if they wish to be considered a Catholic in good standing. It's a mortal sin on the same level as murder. The Archbishop is simply enforcing Church law. That other senior clergy don't have the spine to do so is their own failure. Biden should be banned from Communion, too, for the same reasons.
Or she's not evil at all because she isn't forcing her religious views on others. That would be evil, and in terms of abortion potentially dangerous because no one should fear legal consequences during a crisis for performing a life saving procedure.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, and I think Trump especially acts more like Jesus. However, I don't claim Trump is close to the level of Jesus, just closer than Biden.
That falls into the seriously delusional category, and I'm speaking as an independent.

So, here's an easy exercise for ya: Reread the Sermon On the Mount and then get into YouTube and watch any one of Trump's rallies, and the tell us if they are in any way comparable?

The reality is that you have basically "sold your sold" to the lowest bidder, and no song & dance can change that. Do you really need a list of Trump's many atrocities? Do you feel:
-adultery is moral?
-using a prostitute is?
-repeatedly getting caught for money fraud is?
-trying to overthrow and election that he admitted he lost is?
-telling police that it's OK to rough people up when arrested is?
-racism is?
-bogus donations is?
-lying about turning over his taxes is?
-etc, etc, etc.?

Now, don't come back and claim the Biden is worse or just as bad because he doesn't have anything similar to Trump's record on this. Matter of fact, Lindsey Graham said a few years ago that Biden was the most moral person in the Senate or House, iho.

However, mind you, I am not a fan of Biden, plus I feel we need two serious parties who put the country ahead of any loyalty to their party.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Secular means without religion.
Yes, I know.
But religious folk who consider themselves
secular still have their religion influence their
secular beliefs. Many such posters here fit
that description...posters who advocate things
I find oppressive, eg, higher taxes.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Yes, I know.
But religious folk who consider themselves
secular still have their religion influence their
secular beliefs. Many such posters here fit
that description...posters who advocate things
I find oppressive, eg, higher taxes.
I oppose oppresively higher taxes too, well except on those who make too much. I support higher taxes on those that make more than . . . how much did you say that you made a year?
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
No, she is still in the right since no one on the antiabortion side can come up with a rational, or even Christian argument for their beliefs. And since those beliefs hurt others considerably they are evil beliefs.
Church doctrine is what it is. It's not up for debate in the Church. I don't what to tell you if you think there's no logical argument or Christian argument against killing babies in the womb. o_O I've always found it fairly straightforward. And I'm not going to touch your laughable statement that being pro-life is evil. :rolleyes:
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Or she's not evil at all because she isn't forcing her religious views on others. That would be evil, and in terms of abortion potentially dangerous because no one should fear legal consequences during a crisis for performing a life saving procedure.
All politicians "force" their beliefs on others. That's what lawmakers do.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Church doctrine is what it is. It's not up for debate in the Church. I don't what to tell you if you think there's no logical argument or Christian argument against killing babies in the womb. o_O I've always found it fairly straightforward. And I'm not going to touch your laughable statement that being pro-life is evil. :rolleyes:
But the right is not pro-life. They are merely antiabortion. That is not the same thing at all. And that is a demonstrably evil position since you know that you cannot justify it and it does unnecessarily harm others.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
But the right is not pro-life. They are merely antiabortion. That is not the same thing at all. And that is a demonstrably evil position since you know that you cannot justify it and it does unnecessarily harm others.
Whatever you say, buddy. I just don't support killing innocent beings and it's against the faith. In this inverted, collapsing culture of death, that appears to be a shocking stance. :rolleyes: But Christians aren't called to be popular.

And I didn't mention right or left.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Whatever you say, buddy. I just don't support killing innocent beings and it's against the faith. In this inverted, collapsing culture of death, that appears to be a shocking stance. :rolleyes: But Christians aren't called to be popular.

Uh huh. Let's see if you can make a rational argument supporting your antiabortion stance. You probably cannot even make a proper Christian one.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
The Church per the Catechism allows for personal discernment.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).
Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church's Constant Teaching

The only way she or other abortion supporting Catholics can get out of it is if they're ignorant of the teaching, really.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Uh huh. Let's see if you can make a rational argument supporting your antiabortion stance. You probably cannot even make a proper Christian one.
It's wrong to kill unborn babies in the womb, just as it's wrong to cause the death of any innocent human being. There's none more innocent than a baby. We're all unique creations made in the image of God and it is wicked to treat fellow humans as refuse to be disposed of. It's pretty simple.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: "Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law" (No. 2271).
Respect for Unborn Human Life: The Church's Constant Teaching

The only way she or other abortion supporting Catholics can get out of it is if they're ignorant of the teaching, really.
Yes, I am fully aware of that, but that doesn't negate the right of personal discernment. If we go against a Church teaching, then the onus is on us personally if it's a bad decision.

An excellent book on this is: "Let Your [Informed] Judgement Be Your Guide", which is a Catholic publication.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Yes, I am fully aware of that, but that doesn't negate the right of personal discernment. If we go against a Church teaching, then the onus is on us personally if it's a bad decision.

An excellent book on this is: "Let Your [Informed] Judgement Be Your Guide".
And if you know what the Church teaches and you choose to go against it, you are accountable for it. And if you do it in a public fashion, you can be subject to discipline such as being barred from Communion. That's the rules. I didn't make them. I'm not in good standing myself, according to the Church teaching. But I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
 
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