Forgiven

[Thief]

Their opinion would matter in heaven even less than it did on Earth. For I believe the assumption is that in heaven you do not suffer physically. Therefore, whatever words they used or emotional distress they were trying to put me through would simply fall on deaf ears. I don't feel those sorts of things even in this life - that is, emotional "damage" due to words or the opinions of others. My physical pain is all I concern myself with. Without that in the picture, I couldn't give a rat's behind about anyone's opinion of whether or not I deserved "forgiveness."

well now.....is it not written?
do not fear that anyone would harm your flesh
rather you should fear...He....who is able to rend the soul

I say say.....grace means to allow
we are forgiven by grace
and then allowed to walk among the angelic

this thread is about......what if they DON'T like it?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

well now.....is it not written?
do not fear that anyone would harm your flesh
rather you should fear...He....who is able to rend the soul

I say say.....grace means to allow
we are forgiven by grace
and then allowed to walk among the angelic

this thread is about......what if they DON'T like it?

Again, I couldn't care less what they do or don't like. Do opinions affect the soul, do you think? Are opinions what "rend" the soul? If so... then a "soul" sounds like a rather weak and insignificant thing indeed.

 

[Thief]

Again, I couldn't care less what they do or don't like. Do opinions affect the soul, do you think? Are opinions what "rend" the soul? If so... then a "soul" sounds like a rather weak and insignificant thing indeed.

maybe so

some people do seem to be .....weak in spirit

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

maybe so

some people do seem to be .....weak in spirit

If a "spirit" is what sees one taking others' opinions to heart and being "hurt" by them... then perhaps being "weak" in this thing you call "spirit" is not such a bad thing?

 

[Thief]

If a "spirit" is what sees one taking others' opinions to heart and being "hurt" by them... then perhaps being "weak" in this thing you call "spirit" is not such a bad thing?

as to say...the give and take in the next life
will be directly to mind and heart.....

yeah....
and it may be a good thing to be thick of skin
even though you must leave that item behind

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

as to say...the give and take in the next life
will be directly to mind and heart.....

yeah....
and it may be a good thing to be thick of skin
even though you must leave that item behind

Do you honestly think the term "thick skin", as you are referencing it here, applies to the mortal shell? Do you? Come now Thief... I thought you were at least more clever than that.

 

[Thief]

Do you honestly think the term "thick skin", as you are referencing it here, applies to the mortal shell? Do you? Come now Thief... I thought you were at least more clever than that.

it was intended as a double meaning

yeah ....here in this life
a thick skin will let you move on without getting your feelings hurt

and in the next life....
a thick skin (strong spirit) may help you keep your sanity

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

it was intended as a double meaning

yeah ....here in this life
a thick skin will let you move on without getting your feelings hurt

and in the next life....
a thick skin (strong spirit) may help you keep your sanity

So now we also have to worry about our sanity in the afterlife? So what, in your estimation (since we're not talking about anything anyone knows for sure is real and all), does heaven offer over this "first" life? Sounds to me like you think we'll all be facing the same sorts of problems. Interesting... in that this goes against what many others claim to be the case.

 

[Thief]

So now we also have to worry about our sanity in the afterlife? So what, in your estimation (since we're not talking about anything anyone knows for sure is real and all), does heaven offer over this "first" life? Sounds to me like you think we'll all be facing the same sorts of problems. Interesting... in that this goes against what many others claim to be the case.

yeah....I knew when I signed up for this forum
I would be out on a limb with a lot of people trying to cut the tree down

but I read scripture
and for cause of it.....it's a good thing my bid on the seminary failed
I notice things the church does not put out and up front
the collar would have come off
by my own hand or theirs

and I look to heaven in the same manner

religious people readily recite and profess to understand
and I tend to report with a question.....what if your sayings come to firm event?

such as the Lord's Prayer
taught to children
recited with almost every mass and ceremony

OUR Father
your Father?
my Father?
brothers are we?

heaven hears it
so too the devil

and we are indeed facing the same sort of problems
as did the devil when the sons of God gathered to present themselves

and the Lord said unto him.....WHAT! are you doing here????
(see Job)

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

yeah....I knew when I signed up for this forum
I would be out on a limb with a lot of people trying to cut the tree down

but I read scripture
and for cause of it.....it's a good thing my bid on the seminary failed
I notice things the church does not put out and up front
the collar would have come off
by my own hand or theirs

and I look to heaven in the same manner

religious people readily recite and profess to understand
and I tend to report with a question.....what if your sayings come to firm event?

such as the Lord's Prayer
taught to children
recited with almost every mass and ceremony

OUR Father
your Father?
my Father?
brothers are we?

heaven hears it
so too the devil

and we are indeed facing the same sort of problems
as did the devil when the sons of God gathered to present themselves

and the Lord said unto him.....WHAT! are you doing here????
(see Job)

With literally no way to verify ANY of it (which is precisely why you will find so many opinions, and why there are so many people who don't agree with you, and so many people you don't agree with, as you referenced in your quote above) I find it more prudent to simply wait and see. If there ever ends up being better evidence (or ANY worthwhile evidence for that matter) then I will always be willing to have a look. And if not, I find no use worrying over a steaming pile of ambiguous crap that has absolutely not one thing to do with living the life I know for certain that I have a crack at (i.e. this one).

You say a lot of things. A lot of things you can't possibly know for certain and that you can't possibly provide compelling demonstrations for the truth of. That's what you do. It seems as if you simply can't help yourself.

 

[Thief]

A lot of things you can't possibly know for certain and that you can't possibly provide compelling demonstrations for the truth of.

oh but I help myself continually

I don't have a congregation
I have to help myself
I don't have ritual or ceremony
I have to help myself
so forth and so on

and I am surrounded by this life and 7billion copies of a learning device
that is precisely what the human body is
it introduces your reality into your mind and heart

apparently the current life span is sufficient
the clay will stiffen and then .....crack
back to the dust it was

 

[Thief]

What? 7billion copies of a learning device
and it all ends in dust?

not one chance in billions of an after life?

 

[Trailblazer]

what if God is willing to forgive you
????
but no one else in heaven wants to

Another question is, what if God forgives you but you cannot forgive yourself?
How does that help you that God forgives you if you cannot forgive yourself?

 

[Trailblazer]

So what, in your estimation (since we're not talking about anything anyone knows for sure is real and all), does heaven offer over this "first" life? Sounds to me like you think we'll all be facing the same sorts of problems.

No, we will not be facing the same sorts of problems because the afterlife (which is really an oxymoron, since the next life is just a continuation of this life) or heaven as it is commonly referred to, is a spiritual world, so we won't have any of the same problems we have in this life; and since all suffering comes from the material world, that means we will not have any more suffering in the spiritual world, if we played our cards right in this world.

Nonbelievers might believe this world is a great place as long as things are going their way, but that can only last so long, as eventually pain and sorrow will befall them.

“Such is this mortal abode: a storehouse of afflictions and suffering. It is ignorance that binds man to it, for no comfort can be secured by any soul in this world, from monarch down to the most humble commoner. If once this life should offer a man a sweet cup, a hundred bitter ones will follow; such is the condition of this world. The wise man, therefore, doth not attach himself to this mortal life and doth not depend upon it; at some moments, even, he eagerly wisheth for death that he may thereby be freed from these sorrows and afflictions.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 200

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

No, we will not be facing the same sorts of problems because the afterlife

Fine that you think this way - but please note that this basically only applies to your own thoughts on it, and anyone of like mind to you. Obviously yours is not the only interpretation of "heaven." I think it would do well for all believers to come to terms with that, understand it, and keep it top-of-mind. You could be wrong. YOU COULD BE WRONG.

 

[Trailblazer]

Fine that you think this way - but please note that this basically only applies to your own thoughts on it, and anyone of like mind to you. Obviously yours is not the only interpretation of "heaven." I think it would do well for all believers to come to terms with that, understand it, and keep it top-of-mind. You could be wrong. YOU COULD BE WRONG.

Any of us believers could be wrong because beliefs cannot be proven true or false.

I think it would also be wise for All Atheists to come to terms with, understand, and keep it top-of-mind that
YOU COULD BE WRONG, so there could be both a God and an afterlife.

 

[Nakosis]

what if God is willing to forgive you
????
but no one else in heaven wants to

It's their problem. They are the ones that will have to carry that burden of blaming someone else for some injustice they feel for all eternity. Hopefully, folks in heaven would be able to let go of all these petty injustices that happened during their mortal lives.

 

[Nakosis]

Fine that you think this way - but please note that this basically only applies to your own thoughts on it, and anyone of like mind to you. Obviously yours is not the only interpretation of "heaven." I think it would do well for all believers to come to terms with that, understand it, and keep it top-of-mind. You could be wrong. YOU COULD BE WRONG.

 

[Thief]

It's their problem.

indeed.....their problem

if God forgives .....and you are allowed to walk about in heaven
but the crowd doesn't like you
it would be their problem

their disapproval would be contrary to a decision made by the Almighty

see Prodigal Son

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Any of us believers could be wrong because beliefs cannot be proven true or false.

I think it would also be wise for All Atheists to come to terms with, understand, and keep it top-of-mind that
YOU COULD BE WRONG, so there could be both a God and an afterlife.

I entirely acknowledge that I could be wrong. All I advocate for is not adopting any such beliefs until there is a way to demonstrate the veracity of the claims. And that's the main difference I see between myself and theists. Many of them are entirely willing to speak as if they DO know, and like there is no possibility that they could be wrong. I don't do this. I can't do this. It is dishonest and downright foolish.