• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
I am no expert on the bible but it sounds to me like Jesus say that man should not hold on to the physical world(belongings) but be more concerned about saving themselves by gaining wisdom. ( my free thought of what the verse say)
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?

I see other Biblical passages shed more light and give more food for thought;

Matthew 6:19-21..... 19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also... "

Regards Tony
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I see other Biblical passages shed more light and give more food for thought;

Matthew 6:19-21..... 19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also... "

Regards Tony

That’s really the best approach. Rather than to take a single verse, consider other verses that touch on related concepts. For me it is about the life of the spirit and how preoccupation with the material realm can impede our spiritual progress.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
I think the context of the passage makes this clear. Jesus has just explained to the Apostles how he's going to be arrested, tried, whipped, crucified, and killed. Peter's immediate reaction is to start coming up with a plan to stop this from happening.

Jesus rebukes Peter for this - actually calling him "Satan" for what he's saying.

The verse you quoted is part of that rebuke. Jesus explains that the salvation of humanity depends on his death as described. In the quoted verse, Jesus is making the point that if he doesn't die, no matter what else a man does, his soul will be lost.

So if I had to give a one-sentence answer, I'd say that in that passage, Jesus is telling Peter that without Jesus's crucifixion, anything else humanity does will be futile.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I think the context of the passage makes this clear. Jesus has just explained to the Apostles how he's going to be arrested, tried, whipped, crucified, and killed. Peter's immediate reaction is to start coming up with a plan to stop this from happening.

Jesus rebukes Peter for this - actually calling him "Satan" for what he's saying.

The verse you quoted is part of that rebuke. Jesus explains that the salvation of humanity depends on his death as described. In the quoted verse, Jesus is making the point that if he doesn't die, no matter what else a man does, his soul will be lost.

So if I had to give a one-sentence answer, I'd say that in that passage, Jesus is telling Peter that without Jesus's crucifixion, anything else humanity does will be futile.
And if Jesus was not raised from the dead they also have no hope.

In Luke 16 Jesus speaks a parable, who many claim was not a parable, where Abraham is in heaven or paradise already.

If that be true, it makes nonsense of the idea of having no hope unless Jesus be killed and raised from the dead
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
That quote was on a private grain elevator near where I live. Now demolished, I don't know how long it stood there.
Dbru9dzX4AEVzPS.jpg
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
Context is everything, the previous verses say we should give up everything for the sake of the Gospel (Matthew 8:34-38) (as here is down near Hell); so why would anything matter, if here is to be removed before the Messianic Age.

Thus it is meaning we should give up everything for the sake of the Kingdom of God, as nothing else matters.

It is similar to the man who built a bigger barn (Luke 12:16-21), there is no point collecting wealth down here, as here is destroyed, and recreated before the Age to Come.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
And if Jesus was not raised from the dead they also have no hope.
The passage only touches on Jesus's death, but sure: you can't rise from the dead unless you die, so it works to interpret the passage in Matthew as talking, ultimately, about the need for Jesus's resurrection.

In Luke 16 Jesus speaks a parable, who many claim was not a parable, where Abraham is in heaven or paradise already.

If that be true, it makes nonsense of the idea of having no hope unless Jesus be killed and raised from the dead
I've heard Christians make justifications for this sort of thing, but I personally see no reason to assume that the Bible can't contradict itself... especially if we're talking about two separate books by different authors (the Gospel of Matthew vs. the Gospel of Luke).
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
Based upon the entire context of the New Testament. He meant that without being right with God, by and through Him, no matter the advantages of this world, one has destroyed their opportunity for eternal life.
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?

This is one of the greatest teachings in the Sermon on the Mount and maybe the gospels in general...its not about what's going on outside but what is going on inside. You are your own best judge and jury if you follow the Beatitudes. Only you and God know what is in your heart. Deal with that and not with what others can see. If you suffer now know that you will have the other kingdom...the one of heaven.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?


Great question!
It's actually talking about death. If a man has everything he wants in life, what good is that if he dies. He cant take it with him in death. Says that in the Psalms too. "Soul" in these verses are "life". Soul can be written a few different ways. But remember that scripture tells us that we are a soul. Never given one. God has that we eventually die, but never does it say that another part of us still lives on.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I think we are skipping over the action of losing the soul

it is written...…
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle
than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God

if you reduce a camel to such fine portions as to push it through a needle
those portions are rather small
and the form it once was......is lost

but is that the same as reducing a rich man to the smallest of portions?

I suspect.....God doesn't care what you gather unto yourself
gather all that you care to

but always.....ALWAYS....
be prepared to let go of it
ALL of it

we take nothing back to God other than how you think and feel
the manner that you dream
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
it is also written.....
fear not what another may do as harm unto you

rather you should fear...He...who is able to rend the soul

we are assembled
body
mind
heart

any one and all of these can be lost
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
IMO, anti-materialism. Now, maybe some should tell Trump and his followers this.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
It is recorded in the Gospel of Mark 8:36

For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?


Presuming Jesus really spoke these words what do you think Jesus meant and why?
Jesus is like a "Doctor Who." I can't claim that The Doctor is patterned after him, but there are strong resemblances between The Doctor and Mark's treatment of Jesus. Mark begins with Jesus getting baptized by his own disciple, John, and suddenly Jesus is declared by heaven to be The Son or is adopted or is confirmed as the Son. It is supposed to be ironic. How can the lesser baptize the greater? How could Jesus allow John to baptize him? How can heaven approve of this? To Christians this is a symbol for becoming greater in terms of peace and power than the Jewish nation. Its a challenge, and it claims that the student can become greater than the teacher. As we ask who Jesus is we also ask who we are, because we are supposed to emulate Jesus. Mark is saying yes you can be even greater if you try. Its a recurring theme in Christian texts, and for this reason Paul feels he must say "Don't boast against the original branches" when he is discussing why the Jews reject Jesus. Paul makes the point that Christians aren't the original stock and can be cut off, removed, gone; and the original plant will survive without us, making its own new branches. I mention this because its hard to simulate the original fervor of Christianity and to put ourselves there in that time where we are the underdogs, the unproven unknown, unaccomplished strangers. We are challenged to be better than the Jewish nation yet grafted to it, reliant, somewhat like seedless grapes which are possible through grafting one species of grape onto the stock of another. In this situation the Christian is faced with the question of "If I'm not Jewish then who am I?" Mark continually asks who Jesus is and through this is also telling the Christian to think about who they should be.

This phrase 'My Son' from chapter 1 turns into 'Son of Man' in chapter 8, alluding to the book Daniel. The Christian ought to be both of these, ought to become them; but what are they? What are these things? Now we are asking who is The Son, and who is the Son of Man? People in Mark continually ask the question "Who is he?" Jesus is our example, so we should be asking who is Jesus. Mark gets us asking this right from the start and all throughout. Beware of the chapter endings, because the chapters are not in the original work. It is originally a book with only one chapter. In chapter 6 people say "Isn't this just the son of Mary and Joseph from down the street?" The Christian should be seeing themselves in Jesus when they read this. They should ask "Am I not just some regular person, and how can I outdo the righteousness of a Pharisee? Can I be chosen by heaven?" Its supposed to be read humbly. Over and over Mark asks who Jesus is and gives hints. In chapter 8 (as we draw closer to the OP question) Jesus asks his disciples "Who do you say that I am?" Then at the beginning of chapter nine comes his transfiguration where he glows and stands with Moses and Elijah. He glows brightly, symbolizing several things. Its light which explores creation, which judges good from evil, which is wisdom, which drives away the dark. He becomes a source of light. The Christian is to be like that.

The most mysterious passage of all: Mark 8:31 says that Jesus teaches them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, be rejected by the elders, by the chief priests, by the scribes, be killed, be dead for three days and rise again. No one has ever been, in my lifetime, been able to explain why three days. I continually return to this and wonder why it must be three. So far I have some clues, some ideas; no solid answers. I relate it to the three days required in the law for sacrifices to be consumed or destroyed, but there is not a solid connection there. If nobody can explain why three days, then why should I believe that they can explain why he must be rejected? Similarly if I can't explain it, then I should be humble and not claim to know why the elders have rejected Jesus. Should I accuse them? Should I blame them? I don't understand for myself, and there are many other reasons I have not mentioned why we mustn't boast against the original roots. You can't explain why Jesus must be dead for three days, and neither can I. Feel free to make a guess.

In this context lets treat the question of the OP, and no doubt you have your own ideas if you've already waded through the above. What does it profit a man to gain the entire world but lose his own life in the process? Why should I do anything for the world's sake? The question reminds me of something -- Jesus temptation in the wilderness where he is tempted by this exactly. He can have all the kingdoms of the world, make any laws, help anyone. All he has to do is bow to someone, someone who is named 'Enemy'. Through Jesus conversation with Peter I infer that the enemy opposes Jesus death. The enemy in Peter argues "No Jesus you must not die," causing Jesus to rebuke Peter "Get behind me, Satan!" It also reminds me of the temptations you and I face. We want to preserve ourselves, but Jesus says "Deny yourself." We don't don't want to do that. Enemy within us doesn't want that.

As Mark asks who Jesus is, I the reader must also who I am since Jesus it whom I am to imitate. Am I Satan - someone opposing God's will? Am I trying to preserve my life against the will of God, and why is it God's will that I should die?
 
Last edited:
Top