for Tom

[icebuddy]

AC,
i complained to Yahoo and it seems to be fixed for the moment. try singing out of Yahoo and back in again. Also, Copy your message to a notepade so it isnt lost, thats what made me upset. I even thought God was trying to hold my message back until I heard everyone was having the same problem. LOL

Anyways, I will check here more often. My son had emergency surgery and his appendix needed removed. All good now! Thank GOD!!! My kids attended a Lutherin Church camp and liked it alot! They came back singing joys of Jesus and Im going to check it out for myself soon. i also remember attending the same church camp and loving it as well. (as a Kid) Just sharing some info...

Tom

 

[Jensen]

It's good to hear that your son is doing good, and yes, thank God for that.:yes: So glad for you that it all went okay.

I've tried all those things that you listed, and sometimes it has worked. But when it comes to complaining to Yahoo, I don't know how one goes about doing that.

Glad to see that you came on here, I'd about given up that either you or Slo would come on again, so haven't posted here much.

A bit of advice about the Lutheran church, check into them online, some are much more conservative than others. The Missouri Synod is very conservative, and the ELCA is more liberal, giving one more of the chance to think for themselves the details of their personal beliefs. They are not against taking part in the military, and politics, and do believe in the orthodox view of hell, and that the deceased believer goes to heaven after death.

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

Tom, I'm sorry that I never replied to the last lengthy post here on Jesus and the
Father. But it is way too long, with so much that I believe needs replying to, that I disagree with, that I do not feel and have not felt up to responding to it. So just let it go. When something gets too long, it is no longer a conservation or casual discussion but a debate, which I'd rather not take part in.

Jensen

 

[icebuddy]

Jensen,
Thank you for the kind words of my son and just being a good christian. Not sure how you take my posts that seem long, but Slo and I have a understanding that we are explaining our beliefs and not forcing them upon each other, although it might get hot from time to time. All we can do is pray for one another and that the things God wants to reveal to us. Trying not to harden our hearts toward one another.

Anyways, i heard the Luthern Church has some issues with Gays and Im trying to figure out the truth. i also know that they are firm with Water Baptism and us Quakers are not. As far as the Army we would not be against it, but would need to be cooks or medical type people. I have no problem with Hell and different views of it, for mine is a little different as well. I believe the 2nd death could be where God kills body, soul, and spirit of a person. (But Im guessing)

A very good speaker in our Friends church is not far from my house and I wanted to vist it soon as well. Take a look at the pod cast

Friends Church > Media

Phil Hotsenpiller is the pastor I like, but anyways...

in Love,
tom

 

[Jensen]

Hi Tom, even with only explaining our differing beliefs, replying to long posts which keep getting longer and longer because of it, is too time consumming, and trying. It takes the fun out of having an exchange of views or a conservation on it. But whatever, doesn't matter does it? since we know what each other believes for the most part anyway.

Jensen

 

[icebuddy]

[[[AC Wrote]]]Hi Tom, I'd like you to tell me how it is that one can take the unitarian God of Judaism, of the Hebrew Scriptures, the one God that they believe in, and decide that they were wrong, or didn't understand God's make up; and say and change Him into a God of three distinct persons yet one God when that is NOT what they believed.

AC,
God has revealed himself more and more over time. We are NOT saying God is not One. In the Old Testament where you read Passages of God being "ONE", the word used for "ONE" is also used of One Group or One Cluster. Never did I or WE say the Jews were wrong, we believe that God reveals himself over time. There are passages in the Old Test where 3 beings are mentioned as Jehovah and many skim over that and never think twice about it.

1Cr 10:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

AC,
Every Jew of the time knew this Person to be Jehovah God, not any one else. Paul says, dont be ignorant, not me. If you want to think like a Jew, then you need to look at how a Jew would see the passages at hand. This is fullfillment not Change.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Today we have watered down the term "Lord", but then to call Jesus Lord over all and to use the passage where YHWH exists and apply it directly to Jesus is just Awsome! Jesus is Lord, YHWH, Jehovah with the Father.

Mar 4:22 For everything that is hidden will eventually be brought into the open, and every secret will be brought to light.
Mar 4:23 Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand."

It is clear that not everything was known.

1Cr 2:7 No, the wisdom we speak of is the mystery of God —his plan that was previously hidden, even though he made it for our ultimate glory before the world began.
1Cr 2:8 But the rulers of this world have not understood it; if they had, they would not have crucified our glorious Lord.

Clearly the Jews didnt understand everything.

Col 2:2 I want them to be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have complete confidence that they understand God's mysterious plan, which is Christ himself.
Col 2:3 In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Col 2:4 I am telling you this so no one will deceive you with well-crafted arguments.

Now ask yourself, Is Gods whole plan, everything coming together, was everything God ever did to exhault one of his Creations or to exhault Him and his eternal word?

[[[ac wrote]]]I say that you can't and have the same God that they believe in. Trinitarianism has changed the God revealed to us in the Hebrew scriptures, and believed by the Hebrews, and yet claim to believe in the same God as they do, and the same holy books as they do. They just don't, as believing in a God that is three distinct persons in one, is not the same God of the Hebrew Scriptures, that the Jews believe in.

That is something you believe, but for me, its fullfillment of everything ever writen.

Jhn 5:39 "You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!

AC,
Ask yourself, is everything about a created being or about God? now to the passage i asked about in Psalms 102:25-27 that we both agree is God YHWH

The Father speaking of the Son:

Hbr 1:10 And, "YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
Hbr 1:11 THEY WILL PERISH, BUT YOU REMAIN; AND THEY ALL WILL BECOME OLD LIKE A GARMENT,
Hbr 1:12 AND LIKE A MANTLE YOU WILL ROLL THEM UP; LIKE A GARMENT THEY WILL ALSO BE CHANGED. BUT YOU ARE THE SAME, AND YOUR YEARS WILL NOT COME TO AN END."

Again, would any Jew say this was anyone but God Jehovah? No, and therefore things are revealed in time. Is this a created being or is it God, its that simple.

Jesus Speaking (Revelation of Jesus Christ)

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.
Rev 22:13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

God is One, but is he trapped in what we believe one is or what Gods ways are? He is in everything and everywhere and holds everything together.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

What would a Jew say about that?

In Love,
Tom

 

[Jensen]

Hi Tom, my computer isn't working right, so will have to make this short for now.

You said that in the OT that there are three that are called Jehovah, and then post verses from 1Corinthians. Why is it that you didn't post the verses from the OT? that support your view? I see that you used all verses from the NT to support your view of how the Jews,( lets say what the Judaism view of God is), and none from the OT, which is the Hebrew Scriptures, that is the scriptures of the Hebrews then, and Jews now, as they are called today.

Tom, The Jews do not accept the NT as their scripture. So it seems to me that you can not tell us how they view God by using support from the NT. It would be like trying to do so using the book Moby Dick.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one God.

It doesn't say Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one group/one cluster God.

If that was what he meant, he would have worded it that way, and he didn't.

As for one group or cluster or class, we don't just say one like in Deuteronomy 6:4, but would say one group or one cluster, etc.

So here in Deut, it is not saying one group, but actually, ONE.....one God. Which is how they see God, not as three persons in one God, but one God.

God does reveal his plan for mankinds salvation and God's Kingdom over an extended period of time, but not what he is, that he gave to the Hebrews directly that he is one God.

Jensen

 

[icebuddy]

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one God.

The word used for One doest indicate singularity. One Group One Cluster. However there is another Hebrew word that does indicate one single unit and it is never used of God in the OT

It doesn't say Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one group/one cluster God.

Things are vield. Paul write and say I dont want you to be ignorant, it was Jesus... Oneness penicoastals argue these same arguenments, but they believe the Father is Jesus.

If that was what he meant, he would have worded it that way, and he didn't.

Are you saying nothing was hidden in the Old Testament? The New Testament REVEALS the old

If that was what he meant, he would have worded it that way, and he didn't.

The Same word is used when man and woman become "ONE" Flesh. How do you see this? 2 People, One Flesh... Is that any different? Did the Jews totaly understand that?

Which is how they see God, not as three persons in one God, but one God.

Why then does God speak in the OT with passages like

Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Gen 18:2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
Gen 18:3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Jer 23:5 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

AC,
John 1:1 says that God was the word. If you change that to a god, then you now have another god where Jehovah says he did not make other gods before him nor after him. Do you believe this? My whole point is that the Jew didnt understand God fully, otherwise we wouldnt have a new testament. In the New Testament their saviour is Jesus or Jehovah our righeousness. Thomas, a Jew, didnt reconise this fact until after Jesus was ressurected. Thomas thought like Jehovahs witnesses of today, that Jesus was a man and only a man(Maybe a King). But when Thomas opened his eyes, what did he proclaim? My Lord and My God, and Jesus blesses him and blesses those who believe the same thing and havent seen.

God does reveal his plan for mankinds salvation and God's Kingdom over an extended period of time, but not what he is, that he gave to the Hebrews directly that he is one God.

Have I ever said to you that he isnt "ONE GOD"? The problem is that you want to put God into a simple box. Your box only can understand God as a sigle unit being and you really have no idea and neither do I, but we know what has been revealed to us. That This One God says in his own instruction manual, that The Word is also part of this one God and became flesh. Believe as you want, but as paul says:

1Cr 10:1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Cr 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Cr 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Cr 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

AC,
Who did the Jews think their Rock was? Who did the Jews thing this was? Dont be ignorant is what Paul says, why?

In Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

[[[rlittle wrote]]]At Hebrews 1:10 Paul applied it to Jesus, not to Jehovah that is why the NWT does not insert Jehovah's name in the verse.

Rlittle,
Paul took an OT passage of Jehovah and applied it directly to Jesus. Thomas looked to Jesus and said, "My Lord and My God". Jesus replied, because you have seen you believe, blessed are those who have not seen and believe. Paul continues to write, Do not be ignorant, the one who followed you in the desert(Jehovah), is Jesus. Now when you go back into the OT it all makes sence.

Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous [fn]Branch; And He will reign as king and [fn]act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
Jer 23:6 "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The Jehovah our righteousness.'

Ask yourself a question: Could you stand up in the middle of your organized meeting and say, "Jesus is Jehovah our Righteousness" without being asked to leave?

Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

[[[rilttle wrote]]]Jesus has never been nor will he ever be Jehovah. The Scriptures are clear on that.

The scriptures through what i believe is a veiled through the WTBS and alike. For even if the Scriptures did say "Jesus is God, Call Jesus Jehovah, Call Jesus 1st and Last, beginning and end, alpha and omega, My Lord and My God, Mighty God, God, Jehovah our Righteousness, Creator, Saviour, Rock, and many more", we are told many will be decieved. Question is: is it me or is it you.

[[[Rlittle wrote]]]And just like Acomtha was reasoning in a recent post, just because you believe that God is a certain way doesn't make it so. You need to accept what the Bible really teaches or else you will die out of God's favor.

This is the question i have asked before: Do you really believe I will die out of Gods favor for lifting Jesus up to the Highest, even to call him Jehovah (the name his Father also holds) That to look to the image of God and see nothing but God? To Worship Gods approved Image and to see Jesus and say to him, "My Lord and My God"?

I will warn everyone once again: To look to the Image of God(JESUS) and say Not God, Not Jehovah, is very dangerous.

What would the devil want you to do? Im sure its not what Im doing...

In Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

[[[AC wrote]]]Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one God.

I have never disagreed. Jehovah is One!

[[[AC wrote]]]not one group,
not one cluster,
not one three in one,

You are then saying you already know God before you start. Your preconcieved ideas keep you from seeing. Look how you used the word "ONE", One Cluster. If God is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of the New testament, then why would you have a problem with me saying that this deffinition of God is the "ONE GOD". Also the word "ONE" used here alows for multiplicity. Two are married and become "ONE" flesh. However there is a word for "ONE" that doesnt alow for Muliplicity, ask yourself why wasnt that word for "One" used?

In Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

AC,
Now Im having problems with Yahoo. Anyways i posted on the other board. I also wanted to ask you a question. Do you believe that I view God as Father, His Word, and His Spirit? I ask this because you have defined the word "GOD" without knowing it as what ever you believe. For Example, "ONE GOD", what if My God was a Hydra Dragon with 5 Heads. Clearly my "ONE GOD" doesnt exist with Just one Head but rather 5 Dragon heads. The Hebrew word used here doesnt confine single digit but rather does mean One Cluster, One infinite God, One Infinate universe, ect...
All the Jews of the time believed Gods Word was God and Gods Spirit was God. So next time you talk to a Jew ask him: Is Gods Word and Spirit part of the "ONE GOD"?
In Love,
Tom

 

[Jensen]

Tom, the Jews still believe that God is one God, one individual, to this day. They do not believe that God is three persons that is one God. One can argue the pluralness of any and all scripture that you feel is plural and it doesn’t change the fact that the Jews do not believe that God is three persons in One God. Can they be that wrong, when God revealed himself to them thousands of years before he did to the gentiles? We as Christians can not take the God of the OT, and what they believed about him and say it is this way, that he really is three in one, and not have God a different God than the one the Hebrews believed in. It does make him a different God than the one of the OT.

Christians today even with the NT still do not understand God fully. Maybe even less than the Hebrews.


Also in response to the NT revealing the OT, I think that it is a continuation of the OT and what was prophesied concerning God’s Kingdom.

Tom, you said, “John 1:1 says that God was the word. If you change that to a god, then you now have another god where Jehovah says he did not make other gods before him nor after him.”

And I believe that to say that Jesus is also God with God is doing just that, making other gods before him.

Tom, you said, “The problem is that you want to put God into a simple box.”:no:

First of all let’s not get personal. And I do not agree. I believe that God encompasses so much more than ever could be put into such a small area.

Secondly, I feel that putting God in the womb of a women, or the body of a human, IS putting God is a box. So what you say I’m doing, I believe is what Trinitarians are doing.

Also, the verses you listed, 1Cr 10:1-4, do not support a trinity.


In God’s love….

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

[[[rlittle wrote]]]At Hebrews 1:10 Paul applied it to Jesus, not to Jehovah that is why the NWT does not insert Jehovah's name in the verse.

Rlittle,
Paul took an OT passage of Jehovah and applied it directly to Jesus. Thomas looked to Jesus and said, "My Lord and My God". Jesus replied, because you have seen you believe, blessed are those who have not seen and believe. Paul continues to write, Do not be ignorant, the one who followed you in the desert(Jehovah), is Jesus. Now when you go back into the OT it all makes sence.

Jer 23:5 "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous [fn]Branch; And He will reign as king and [fn]act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
Jer 23:6 "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The Jehovah our righteousness.'

Ask yourself a question: Could you stand up in the middle of your organized meeting and say, "Jesus is Jehovah our Righteousness" without being asked to leave?

Isa 44:6 "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: 'I am the first and I am the last, And there is no God besides Me.

[[[rilttle wrote]]]Jesus has never been nor will he ever be Jehovah. The Scriptures are clear on that.

The scriptures through what i believe is a veiled through the WTBS and alike. For even if the Scriptures did say "Jesus is God, Call Jesus Jehovah, Call Jesus 1st and Last, beginning and end, alpha and omega, My Lord and My God, Mighty God, God, Jehovah our Righteousness, Creator, Saviour, Rock, and many more", we are told many will be decieved. Question is: is it me or is it you.

[[[Rlittle wrote]]]And just like Acomtha was reasoning in a recent post, just because you believe that God is a certain way doesn't make it so. You need to accept what the Bible really teaches or else you will die out of God's favor.

This is the question i have asked before: Do you really believe I will die out of Gods favor for lifting Jesus up to the Highest, even to call him Jehovah (the name his Father also holds) That to look to the image of God and see nothing but God? To Worship Gods approved Image and to see Jesus and say to him, "My Lord and My God"?

I will warn everyone once again: To look to the Image of God(JESUS) and say Not God, Not Jehovah, is very dangerous.

What would the devil want you to do? Im sure its not what Im doing...

In Love,
Tom

Hi Tom, I will not be responding to this meessage since it is not to me.

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

[[[AC wrote]]]Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one God.

I have never disagreed. Jehovah is One!

[[[AC wrote]]]not one group,
not one cluster,
not one three in one,

You are then saying you already know God before you start. Your preconcieved ideas keep you from seeing. Look how you used the word "ONE", One Cluster. If God is defined as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of the New testament, then why would you have a problem with me saying that this deffinition of God is the "ONE GOD". Also the word "ONE" used here alows for multiplicity. Two are married and become "ONE" flesh. However there is a word for "ONE" that doesnt alow for Muliplicity, ask yourself why wasnt that word for "One" used?

In Love,
Tom

Hi Tom,

Actually you do disagee, as believing that God is One, and believing that God is three persons in One, is not the same thing.

What I am saying is what I believe God to be, just as you and everyone else does. Everyone has some preconceived ideas, including yourself, so there really is nothing gained by bringing that up.

Also, it was you, Tom, that brought up the word "cluster" and not I. I mean literally one when I say that God is One.

My "problem" with you saying that God is One, and using the word One, is that what you really mean is that God is three in One, and that is not the same as what I mean and say when saying that God is One.

With God's love....

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

AC,
Now Im having problems with Yahoo. Anyways i posted on the other board. I also wanted to ask you a question. Do you believe that I view God as Father, His Word, and His Spirit? I ask this because you have defined the word "GOD" without knowing it as what ever you believe. For Example, "ONE GOD", what if My God was a Hydra Dragon with 5 Heads. Clearly my "ONE GOD" doesnt exist with Just one Head but rather 5 Dragon heads. The Hebrew word used here doesnt confine single digit but rather does mean One Cluster, One infinite God, One Infinate universe, ect...
All the Jews of the time believed Gods Word was God and Gods Spirit was God. So next time you talk to a Jew ask him: Is Gods Word and Spirit part of the "ONE GOD"?
In Love,
Tom

I've been having trouble posting at Yahoo also, did get one message to take, but lost the other. So will make it short here.

How about just asking the Jews a straight forward question, such as....Do you believe in the trinity? and see what you get for an answer. They must have message boards somewhere.

A love :slap: just for you Tom.

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

uhmm, I guess this discussion is over.

 

[icebuddy]

Tom, the Jews still believe that God is one God, one individual, to this day. They do not believe that God is three persons that is one God. One can argue the pluralness of any and all scripture that you feel is plural and it doesn’t change the fact that the Jews do not believe that God is three persons in One God. Can they be that wrong, when God revealed himself to them thousands of years before he did to the gentiles? We as Christians can not take the God of the OT, and what they believed about him and say it is this way, that he really is three in one, and not have God a different God than the one the Hebrews believed in. It does make him a different God than the one of the OT.

Hashilush Hakadosh - the Holy Trinity

I believe the Jews miss the revelation of God and Saviour or they would all be Christians. So somewhere they are wrong according to my belief.

Christians today even with the NT still do not understand God fully. Maybe even less than the Hebrews.

Very Few Christians care like I do. Maybe 15% dig deep and read their bibles and pray everyday. (my educated guess)

Tom, you said, “John 1:1 says that God was the word. If you change that to a god, then you now have another god where Jehovah says he did not make other gods before him nor after him.”
And I believe that to say that Jesus is also God with God is doing just that, making other gods before him.

So in your mind its a loose loose situation?

Jewishness and the Trinity - Fruchtenbaum

I believe that God encompasses so much more than ever could be put into such a small area.

So heres what you need to think about. If God can be everywhere all the time and all things are possible with God, then could he manifest himself on earth, as a man, while still remaining in heaven?

Secondly, I feel that putting God in the womb of a women, or the body of a human, IS putting God is a box. So what you say I’m doing, I believe is what Trinitarians are doing.

God put himself into a Box, not me. but what some fail to see is that God is not just limited to the Body of Jesus. Our Father did this for our benifit.

Also, the verses you listed, 1Cr 10:1-4, do not support a trinity.

Heres what you are missing on my point. Lets say we are both Jews. All our Life we hear God Almighty Created the heavens and the Earth alone, by himself, no one was with him. That YHWH alone is our Rock. That YHWH followed our ansestors by a Cloud and protected them. All of that and then we read 1 Cr 10:1-4 with that all in mind... i bet that in your mind when you read verse 5 that when you read that God was not pleased, that you switch from Jesus to Father in your head, why? Same with Rev 22:12-16 - The only reason for this is because you have conditioned your mind that Jesus cannot be God YHWH in the Old Testament. Jesus himself says the whole scriptures (OT) are about Him, all of it points to Him.

If some random voice came out from the Cloud that followed the Jews as it said, "All things where created by me and For me" who do you think the Jews would say that was speaking?

Its so easy for me that i struggle how one dosent see it. The Bible is so full of passages that I cannot ignore and neither should anyone...

In Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

Hi Tom,
Actually you do disagee, as believing that God is One, and believing that God is three persons in One, is not the same thing.

You have already made up your mind on who God is before you read, God is One. Why? because the word One is in the plural. Is God a WE or US or is God a I or Him? The Bible says let "US" create, who created? The Bible says Man is like "US", who is "US"?

Also, it was you, Tom, that brought up the word "cluster" and not I. I mean literally one when I say that God is One.

But the Bible word for "ONE" doesnt agree with your thinking here. Dont believe me, Look it up and how it is used. There is another Hebrew word for what you believe and it is not used ever with God being a single digit one.

My "problem" with you saying that God is One, and using the word One, is that what you really mean is that God is three in One, and that is not the same as what I mean and say when saying that God is One.

As easy as i can put it is this: Who ever is the "US" in let "US" create or that Man is like "US" is the God who is one. Either way I dont see how you dont have a problem with Only God created and no "ONE" was with "THEM" or "US" or Him to accomidate you. Simple passages sometimes go over looked

Gen 3:5 "For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever"

The Devil said you will be like God, he did not say you will be like US(Angels), so who do you think is the "US" when God says they have become like "US"...

In Love,
Tom

 

[icebuddy]

uhmm, I guess this discussion is over.

i forgot when Yahoo started working again..

Tom

 

[icebuddy]

Jensen,
I think i sent you a personal message. hope you got it
Tom