For those who think that prophet Mohammad was a pedophile

[FearGod]

I think that many Muslims believe that the marriage was consummated when Aisha was 9 years old. Whether this is true... I don't know. I don't necessarily even have reason to believe that Aisha must have existed.

I see the question of Aisha's age more as a litmus test for modern Muslims than I see it as a historical question: regardless of how old she actually was, there are people - i.e. many Muslims today - who believe that an adult man can have sex with a 9-year-old girl and still be a moral example.

Don't worry, the children in the Muslim world are much much safer than in other places
in this world and Aisha was a great woman which can't be if sexually abused, she was
a teacher and even a warrior till she died.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Don't worry, the children in the Muslim world are much much safer than in other places
in this world

Sure they are.

 

[columbus]

Don't worry, the children in the Muslim world are much much safer than in other places
in this world

Children aren't very safe much of anywhere.
But the Muslim world isn't particular safe.
Tom

 

[sovietchild]

Sure they are.

Really? Or, do you want to debate? Christian countries have twice more crime rate then Muslims countries.

 

[columbus]

Really? Or, do you want to debate? Christian countries have twice more crime rate then Muslims countries.

Do they?
Or do they discourage people from reporting it? Or only count convictions? Or make behavior that is illegal in other places legal?

There are lots of ways to reduce the "official" crime rate without changing any behavior. Don't Muslim women wear big draping clothes because Muslim men are dangerous?
Tom

 

[Rival]

Don't worry, the children in the Muslim world are much much safer than in other places
in this world and Aisha was a great woman which can't be if sexually abused, she was
a teacher and even a warrior till she died.

Bro, I was sexually abused as a kid (I was six and it happened repeatedly) and I'm a girl. I'm not a total failure.

 

[FearGod]

Bro, I was sexually abused as a kid (I was six and it happened repeatedly) and I'm a girl. I'm not a total failure.

I'm Sorry to hear about that, disgusting world indeed.

 

[McBell]

Christian countries have twice more crime rate then Muslims countries.

Source please.

I ask because I have heard this claim before, but when the source was looked into it was found to be a claim based upon many a false premise.

 

[sovietchild]

Source please.

I ask because I have heard this claim before, but when the source was looked into it was found to be a claim based upon many a false premise.

You know what...I was wrong it's not crime rate, its murder rate.

Comparisons

 

[McBell]

You know what...I was wrong it's not crime rate, its murder rate.

Fair enough.

Comparisons

Thank you

 

[Watchmen]

You know what...I was wrong it's not crime rate, its murder rate.

Comparisons

From the source: "The much higher rate of murders committed in Christian countries, is primarily caused by the South American and African 'hot zones' which they are concentrated in. It’s possible these nations would be quite violent no matter what their national religion happened to be."

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

This child which you think was molested was a teacher and a warrior to defend Islam prior and
after the death of the prophet,

And prior to all this she was a child married off to and sexed by a prophet. We have a word for that. You know what it is? 'Molestation'.

if you try to use your own mind than listening to the propaganda
against Islam then I'm sure you'll realize that you were wrong.

Doesn't orthodox Islamic propaganda doctrine promote the claim that Aisha was a child both when Muhammad married her & when he had sex with her?

Also, I'm laughing at the irony in your advice that I should use my own mind when you've already decided that Muhammad can't have done this based on the indoctrinated notion that he's a moral exemplar for humanity.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The problem is that the ahadith were collected 200 years after Muhammad's death. We have no idea how old A'isha was.

The real problem is that only becomes a problem when it inconveniences Muslim arguments. By and large they're happy to rely on ahadith the rest of the time.

 

[Rival]

The real problem is that only becomes a problem when it inconveniences Muslim arguments. By and large they're happy to rely on ahadith the rest of the time.

I mean in a purely historical context. It's like people 200 years down the road writing narratives about you based on what I wrote about you in my diary. I never met you, I only go on what you or others told me you did, etc. Just not gonna work.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Really? Or, do you want to debate? Christian countries have twice more crime rate then Muslims countries.

Of course, comparisons are skewed by the wide range of abusive behaviors that are legal in Muslim countries.

End child stonings, UN tells Saudi Arabia

But even with these differences, the Muslim world has a horrendous track record when it comes to child abuse. I found a study to link to, but it's on my computer at home. I'll post the link when I'm home.

 

[sovietchild]

track record when it comes to child abuse..

Child Sexual Abuse: Top 5 Countries With the Highest Rates
US One of Top Three Countries for Child Abuse

 

[firedragon]

Hey, that reminds me:

Would you be so kind as to give me a glimpse of your understanding of how Muslims usually relate to the Ahadith?

Ahadith seem to exist in a very ambiguous role.

On the one hand, any and all Muslims seem to be essentially free to disregard them as they please, since they are presumably not of divine origin and therefore nonbinding.

On the other hand, they do seem to be deemed necessary to provide specifics to many of the practices of Islaam.

My current impression is that for all practical purposes most Muslims end up adopting a set of Ahadith as their guides for practice, even if they can't really trust them anywhere near the extent that they presumably trust the Qu'ran.

Which Ahadith they choose to trust and which to reject is probably a hot subject that correlates strongly with other matters of controversy, although I expect a lot of less drastic variations to exist as well.

How accurate, if at all, does that sound?

Muslims and Non Muslims alike pick and choose some ahadith for their agenda.

Most Muslims around the world have never really read the ahadith. Mostly they listen to the hazrath or preacher at the mosque on a friday. Thats a fact.

And a lot of Muslims like to call themselves well versed in religion though they have not heard 7000 hadiths from a book that has 7100 ahadith. Do you understand what is happening?

Muslim preachers also pick and choose a few verses from the Quran to start on a topic. e.g. growing the beard. They will quote the Quran "Atiullah Atiul rasool", or follow Allah and follow the messenger. Then they will say ahadith is the way to follow the messenger, the messenger grew his beard and his companions grew the beard so you also must.

He has conveniently ignored a Quranic verse like, "Help a travelling alien or wayfarer" is part of the Muslims creed. What is more important in your eyes? Which verse? Help someone or grow the beard?

There is also a science to authenticate ahadith which is not really used in mosques when preaching. See the most authentic ahadith are called Mutawatir which means narrated by many. What will blow our minds that the most authentic or Mutawatir ahadith contradicts the Quran. The hadith says "I was told by God to fight till everyone says there is no god but God" while the Quran says "There is no compulsion in religion".

Anyway, Muslims dont really pick any ahadith for their faith. They simply follow the imam or preacher. And they dont know otherwise. Even scholars in Islam or Muhaddiths can never come to a proper conclusion on the way or actions of salat or prayer. Because they differ between stories or narrations. Even the preacher has never read through all the ahadiths. Never. He also has learnt from his teachers some particular ahadiths. Thats it.

Thus to answer your question in a nutshell, Muslims dont really pick, they follow those who have already done that.

 

[Notanumber]

Islam relies on the old herd mentality. Independent thought can be dangerous to one’s health and well-being. You would not want to live in a tight knit community and be cast as an outsider or traitor to the cause. They are prisoners to their faith and that is just the men, think what it must be like for the women.

 

[firedragon]

Islam relies on the old herd mentality. Independent thought can be dangerous to one’s health and well-being. You would not want to live in a tight knit community and be cast as an outsider or traitor to the cause. They are prisoners to their faith and that is just the men, think what it must be like for the women.

You are absolutely wrong in saying this. Everyone can be a prisoner of our own creation.

Go to an Islamic forum you will see major fights between Shias and Sunnis etc. Go to a Christian forum and you will see a lot fights between Muslims and Christians. Go to an Atheists forum and you will see most of them insulting Islam and to very much lesser degree Christianity.

In that case we are all prisoners. Like Bob Marley said Lets emancipate ourselves from mental slavery.

You can never say Islam as a whole has the old herd mentality. Yes, in the current world there are a lot of Muslims in this trap and its very difficult to rescue them. But also in history while Muslims were progressive and scientifically advance Christian countries were in the dark ages. Well, they will kill you if you are a doctor while in the Islamic empire they had medical colleges and people like Al Khawarizmi thrived.

I am a Muslim. And I know for a fact your label cannot be generally applied.

 

[Notanumber]

You are absolutely wrong in saying this. Everyone can be a prisoner of our own creation.

Go to an Islamic forum you will see major fights between Shias and Sunnis etc. Go to a Christian forum and you will see a lot fights between Muslims and Christians. Go to an Atheists forum and you will see most of them insulting Islam and to very much lesser degree Christianity.

In that case we are all prisoners. Like Bob Marley said Lets emancipate ourselves from mental slavery.

You can never say Islam as a whole has the old herd mentality. Yes, in the current world there are a lot of Muslims in this trap and its very difficult to rescue them. But also in history while Muslims were progressive and scientifically advance Christian countries were in the dark ages. Well, they will kill you if you are a doctor while in the Islamic empire they had medical colleges and people like Al Khawarizmi thrived.

I am a Muslim. And I know for a fact your label cannot be generally applied.

If it turns out that I am wrong and you are right, how many of these freethinking Islamists are women. Do they have a voice just the same as their household masters?

BTW, it is not their own creation. They are born into it.