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For those of you looking for absolute proof that God exists....

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Geoman076, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. Geoman076

    Geoman076 Member

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    You will never get that, because God is not allowed to give it.

    God is love
    Love has to contain 100% free will

    If you had a child, you could very easily lock him in the basement for his whole life to "keep him safe". But would this be love? Of course not! God must give you just enough info that if you want to, you can find him, but not enough as to take away your free will to reject him.
     
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  2. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    I thought you were going to say you had found the "Made by God" sticker.

    I don't reject the idea that a God may exist, in fact lean more in that direction than I do the other without denying either possibility. However, I do reject most religions that tell us what this God wants us to do to be in good favor and that only they have the right answer. That is where my rejection comes in.
     
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  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    I'm beginning to really like you Geoman! :D
     
  4. Saw11_2000

    Saw11_2000 Well-Known Member

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    Huh? That doesn't really make sense to me.
     
  5. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Sorry, I agree; for all those who want 'positive proof', you're out of luck. I'm totally with Maize on the subject of QUOTE [rejecting most religions that tell us what this God wants us to do to be in good favor and that only they have the right answer.]; personally, I find that the biggest 'turn off'. :)
     
  6. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    We gave him a time-out for pathetically poor manners.
     
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  7. Geoman076

    Geoman076 Member

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    You do not do good in order to be saved. Because you are saved, you do good.

    How do you even know what "doing good" is? How does everyone know that "protecting life is good" and "Love is better than Hate". It is because everyone has this moral law written on their heart....by God!
     
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  8. jewscout

    jewscout Religious Zionist

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    So if one ISN'T saved does that mean you can't do good...or are incapable of doing good???
     
  9. Saw11_2000

    Saw11_2000 Well-Known Member

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    I have moral law, but it is moral law dictated by what society feels acceptable, not what God writes on to my heart.
     
  10. Godless Dave

    Godless Dave Member

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    That doesn't make sense. Why couldn't he demonstrate that he exists without still allowing the freedom to reject him?
     
  11. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Is it not possible for the two 'laws' to be:) identical ?
     
  12. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    Why would an all-powerful God not be allowed to do anything he wanted?

    Love is an emotion not an entity. If you worship love so be it but you are worshipping an emotion you come equiped with not a divine presence.

    I am taking it by the last statement that you found God. Since many of us are non-theist and would love for you to share that info can you please tell us where God resides or hangs-out?
     
  13. Lycan

    Lycan Preternatural

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    To know absolutely that god (with god making his/her presence know) exists and still have the choice to reject him or not....that would truly be free will. As it is now, people believe or disbelieve his existance based on their experience and what they perceive as the "truth". If this truth shows them that there is not god or no god that you speak of then the "choice" to reject or accept is moot. You cannot accept (or actually reject) that which you do not believe exists.
     
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  14. yourdogisonfire

    yourdogisonfire New Member

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    OK - here's the question. I agree that God exists. But why the long sabatical since his last "official" appearance. I know, I know, people claim he does this or that, appears in a cinammon bun or graces the side of a glass building - but why the silence? It's like he's testing us. Testing to see if we can "make it through" without his guidance. What kind of love is that? Don't get me wrong. I love God and Jesus, and will until I die. I just have come to question why he feels that we must be tested at all angles. Things go wrong? No VISIBLE Godly interference. Yeah, people can say that God healed a broken bone or stopped me from drinking myself into an oblivion. But this is nothing like the old Testament. Why does he feel the need to test us? That seems cruel, which is not what God is supposed to be. Has anyone ever considered that God's nature has changed? Our nature changes, why not his? I love God, Jesus, and all his followers. I don't mean these rants to try to change anyone's opinions. If I could, I would convert MORE people to God's love. But the questions have to be asked. If there's a good answer, PLEASE send it to me. But none of those quacky answers, where the only reason they appear true is that they can't actually be disproven. Anyone have an idea on this? Aaron Cropper, [email protected], zapman12321 (AIM)
     
  15. roli

    roli Born Again,Spirit Filled

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    Jesus says he is the truth,the way and the life and when you trust him and believe and recieve him, your spiritual eyes will open ,not intellectual eyes but spiritual eyes,but God has not left you to your own but has placed in you your conscience.

    How better can someone justify their behavior and actions if they deny or reject a God with laws and standards and severe consequences to those who violate them.
    Rejecting and disbelieveing them changes nothing,except your own exoneration and status of innocence or guilt on that day. Jump from a building reject the belief in gravity,laws are laws, you can't see them, no different with the spiritual laws, .
    Tell that to a Judge, as you stand before him in a court of law after you have stolen , murdered and raped ,or even dealt drugs, conscience usually enters in at this point as you begin to remember the law that was in place.
    Say Judge,I don't believe you or this whole legal thing, I think the law is bogus, and I don't believe in it ,I think the consequences are unfair ,I don't accept it or agree with it, I think you should'nt have laws , you are bias and unreasonable, as a matter of fact, I don't even think you exist ,I believe that this whole court system is a kangaroo court andthis is just my imagination and by the way you should'nt punish people, it was my upbringing that made me do it, my shoes were too tight, and I was picked on in school
    Then you begin to ridicule ,mock and disgrace the judge and court, how long will you last
    What was once relative thinking to you leading to a intellectual rationalization and distortion of your perception by way of rejection of the truth has immediately shifted to the conscious awareness of reality and your gross ignorance and failure to comply.This inturn makes the consequences and penalties sensible and fitting for the crimes.
    However if the police pull you over for going 100 km when there where no signs indicating the actual required speed was 50km because they forgot to install the signs,as amatter of fact the law was still not past, your conscience is cleared and so will the charges be,
    But we have a Conscience, that tells us right from wrong if it is working and not hardened,lying stealing, adultry, murder are wrong , who says,your conscience, but the relative mind will always disagreee ,ya!,until someone kills ,rapes and murders someone close to him, then he will change his views pretty quick.

    The evidence is in and is piled against you,it is not circumstantial either, the witness is our own conscience.We think by rejecting the very nature of God 's Holiness , righteousness and laws, we are somehow are excused, but on the contrary, refusing to accept these standards we turn off the alarm clock of conscience and nulify the reality and effectivness of these standards in our life, not to mention the consequences that will be revealed in time if we continue to avoid the warning light of conscience.
    When the red lights begin to flash in the dash of your car, engine warning, oil pressure low,do you quickly remove the bulbs and sigh with relief,say that was close, only an ignorant fool would do such a thing.
    The soul that sins(transgresses God's Law) will die,
    What deceptive and alluring disguise of the human rationale that allows us to exonerate ourselves,through denial

    Mamma or daddy never taught you to lie,steal, or hate,or take what is not yours, hurt other's ,cheat, murder etc ,it is in inherent in the human heart. Jer.17:9
    Why is it that so many people have a hard time accepting the fact that God has standards, laws,guidelines,and requires us to follow them and has placed them on our hearts through our conscience.Who wants to be accountable and told what to do ,Romans 2:15 ..the law written on their hearts,conscience bearing witness and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them... Why? to better guide and direct us not to mention protect us,.
    I mean think for a moment what the conscience does, if indeed yours has not become so desensitized,hardened and calloused from the world around you. Your alarm and warning indicates that you have a problem, need help, that is why it is hard to submit.
    Many call bad good and good bad, that is scriptural Isa5:20
    I mean don't you recognize those intrinsic naturally set standards on your conscience ,don't lie ,don't steal,don't kill,don,t covet( desire what you don't have)
    God says you can do nothing outside of Him, ,we are lost in our sins and the wickedness of our own decietful heart.
    There is coming a day when all our secrets will be revealed Matt 10:26 there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed and known
    God commands men everywhee to repent for there is a day in which God will judge the world according to his righteous standard,by Christ Jesus Acts 17,
    The day will bring to light the truth ,I hope we all have open minds to consider TRUTH
     
  16. yourdogisonfire

    yourdogisonfire New Member

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    Wow - you really need to calm down. Xanax, perhaps? I can't imagine why anyone would want to follow a religion that made them so uptight, rigid and just generally unlikeable. Jesus is about love - love your neighbor, love your enemy. So what if others act inappropriately? Just don't do what they do.
    And, perhaps, find a hobby. A different, more peaceful, hobby.
     
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  17. Snowbear

    Snowbear Nita Okhata

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    Slamming someone for expressing and explaining their convictions doesn't make you seem peaceful and likeable, either.

    As for proof that God exists, I may not be able to see His face, but I see the results of His work and that's good enough for me. Kinda like I can't actually see electricity, but I can measure it's current and voltage and my computer turns on.... that's good enough for me to know electricity exists :D
     
  18. Yerda

    Yerda Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this? Are you gifted in recieving unknowable knowledge? How can you accurately judge what God can give?
     
  19. Dr. Khan

    Dr. Khan Member

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    I have absolute proof. That which was given to the apostles and the believers in the Acts of the apostles I have also. John the Baptist promised that he who (John himself) was unworthy to tie his shoes will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and fire.
    Because most Christians are unaware of this they not even having the blessing are left to argue and debate whether Jesus is this or Jesus is that, with no tangible evidence to believe other than they was taught to believe in it. I proved Christ. I challenge him to perform his word. He challenges me to obey him which is to love my neighbor. I love my neighbor through faith, since I have proof of his resurrection and well better obey his commandments. He Promises that if you keep his commandments that he and the Father will come and make his abode with me. This is done.
     
  20. Master Vigil

    Master Vigil Well-Known Member

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    Than prove it Khan. And don't forget, the bible doesn't count. Begging the question and circular arguments are logical fallacies and prove nothing. So, what is your evidence?
     
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