For the love of god, can someone explain who created god?

[ArtieE]

no. god is eternal, there was no time measuring before time was created.

Then there couldn't have been a time where God had not created time yet? Because going from a state where something is not created to where something is created requires the passing of time...

 

[ArtieE]

Uhmm... not getting the atemporal thing?

No... atemporal means "independent of or unaffected by time" Definition of ATEMPORAL which means that there would have to be some time existing to be independent of or unaffected by...

 

[NoGuru]

To all my dear creationist friends, I have a simple question which you might divine from the title.

In another thread, I came across a post whose author clearly believes that god created everything including us. What I want to understand is, how come creationists can suspend their disbelief in regards to the origin of god, and yet in the same breath vehemently deny the possibility of origin of life without a creator.

Can someone explain this apparent schizophrenic belief?

I'll do my best....

First off, you can't simply classify an entire system of beliefs as being that of a mental disorder. Whether you like it or not, we all have those beliefs... all of us. Things we "know" but we don't even "know." For example, the average person "knows" how the U.S. came to existence and who wrote the constitution bla bla bla. But to be quite honest, none of them know. Typically, the ones who fight so hard to defend their beliefs are typically those who have built a life around said belief. So, to accept that the belief may be wrong means your whole life was a lie. This is a very uncomfortable for humans, we hate it.

So... I guess now that I've brought a little attention to the condition we all share, let's examine the belief in God before God. IMHO, I liken it all to a computer program. It's all a fantastic illusion of code and energy, but it's all the same energy source. Whatever flipped the switch (e.g. creation/big bang/who knows), the electricity came on and avatars came to life. Now.... 46 billion years later on a spec of dust, we're arguing about the guy in the sky with the beard, who's actually a cow, but held by a turtle, flies a flaming horse and brings the dead back. Now, while I quasi-mock religious beliefs there, I also feel there's some truth to them. All cultures share similar details around the flood, adam and eve, etc.... there is truth to it. Scientifically that passes the smell test by way of independent verification... loosely. The problem is everyone claims ownership and true knowledge over details they can't possibly know. "God has a beard" like really? I've never met him, doubt it's a "He" in the sense of anything we could comprehend, and who gives a **** what "that" looks like, is, etc. Even if we built a telescope that could see through Heaven's Window and booya, we proved there's a God, it changes nothing. We are still left on a spec of dust arguing about something so far removed from everyday life that we're sacrificing everyday life in order to debate that which does not matter. This is not me attacking you either, by the way, this is a developing point so bare with me here.

So, I'm your average {InsertBeliefSystemHere} {InsertNationalityHere} living in {InsertCityNameHere} and damnit, I know that {InsertOriginTheoryHere} is true. There's unfortunately no way for me myself to test any of these wild assertions being handed to me that I know of, so... I guess I better start filling in the blanks there so I can find a social circle that also believes {InsertVariableBeliefs+Desires/Effort to Achieve} is what {InsertOriginTheoryHere} is all about. Now comes Joe Schmoe who thinks {InsertOriginTheoryHere Where OriginTheory != SelectedOriginTheory}. Man f*** that guy, what does he know? What an idiot! I mean... if he's saying {OpposingOriginTheory} that means {SelectedOriginTheory} is wrong and that's all I know.
^ This is where our core is attacked... and any good machine defends it's core with a vengeance unless controlled to do otherwise.

Don't get too upset over people who can't listen. All {InsertOriginTheoryHere} people are not crazy... just trying to make sense of a world that doesn't make sense.

As a note; I feel it important that I should add that mainstream science is largely false. This is not me saying science is not the answer or trying to weigh in on any of that whole mess... just know that while one extreme of beliefs is being attacked (and rightfully so), that doesn't mean that what's being sold as the better answer is anything more than snake oil. There's truth out there, and then again there's only more questions. The key is to let go of the details and just be humane. Truth comes from experience, and experiencing diversity exposes that truth as really, it's the silver lining we're all looking for.

There's a quote from the movie gladiator that.. if you actually consider the response, and in the context of the movie, well it's powerful.
When preparing to attack the Germane-ans, Quintus turns to Maximus and says: "People should know when they're conquered." To which Maximus turns and replies "Would you Quintus? Would I?"

We all believe we're open minded and taking into consideration everything.... but we're rationalizing animals, not rational animals. We fight to the death to defend that which we don't understand, and we're all guilty in some way.

 

[Fool]

To all my dear creationist friends, I have a simple question which you might divine from the title.

In another thread, I came across a post whose author clearly believes that god created everything including us. What I want to understand is, how come creationists can suspend their disbelief in regards to the origin of god, and yet in the same breath vehemently deny the possibility of origin of life without a creator.

Can someone explain this apparent schizophrenic belief?

that which can recreate, recycle itself is the creator.

energy cannot be created, destroyed it simply changes reforms.


Cyclic model - Wikipedia

Hindu units of time - Wikipedia


now your problem is simple. is it conscious??

 

[whirlingmerc]

To all my dear creationist friends, I have a simple question which you might divine from the title.

In another thread, I came across a post whose author clearly believes that god created everything including us. What I want to understand is, how come creationists can suspend their disbelief in regards to the origin of god, and yet in the same breath vehemently deny the possibility of origin of life without a creator.

Can someone explain this apparent schizophrenic belief?

God is uncreated. Always was and always is. The uncaused cause of everything else.
Technical tern is the asceity of God, His self existence.

 

[Sapiens]

God is uncreated. Always was and always is. The uncaused cause of everything else.
Technical tern is the asceity of God, His self existence.

So ... cut to the chase ... the stuff of the universe is uncreated, always was and always is.

And ... cut the crap, aseity is logically circular or inconsistent unless the "god" referenced were identified with its properties, instead of instantiating, exemplifying or having its properties, and would therefore be a non sentient force or potential of indeterminate vitality, definitely not the Abrahamic deity. This "god," if any sort of a causal agent, can not be a property (or even a complex of properties) and thus you propose a tautology every bit as messy as the regression issue.

 

[whirlingmerc]

So ... cut to the chase ... the stuff of the universe is uncreated, always was and always is.

And ... cut the crap, aseity is logically circular or inconsistent unless the "god" referenced were identified with its properties, instead of instantiating, exemplifying or having its properties, and would therefore be a non sentient force or potential of indeterminate vitality, definitely not the Abrahamic deity. This "god," if any sort of a causal agent, can not be a property (or even a complex of properties) and thus you propose a tautology every bit as messy as the regression issue.

Not really logically circular. Nope. God is outside the universe If he was created He would not be God

You are ruling it out on faith... but that would be a faith assumption on your part.

 

[MonkeyFire]

God has always existed, new things, and creation can't exist. New cant exist forever.

 

[Katzpur]

You should ask Mormons this, though they are somewhat more stricter in the "Dos & Don'ts" department, they are actually open to the possibility the God, Abrahamic God, of all creation isn't the first, that even he has a creator & so does that God's creator & so on.
They even entertain the idea that God didn't create everything on his own but had help from Wife.

Kudos to you for recognizing that we are "open to" certain possibilities but that these "possibilities" are not doctrinal certainties with us. Most people I've encountered don't seem to get this.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Not sure how broad the term "creationist" is. Never-the-less, I have the same feeling about non-godists. How can they suspend their disbelief in the alternative theories? Ah well, different strokes I guess. Ever wake up slowly in the morning and go through several mental places, each one totally logical until the next one totally debunks it? Waiting for the pudding.

Well, I can speak only for myself. I have no idea what caused the origin of the universe and of life.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

It is impossible to conceive infinity not it’s beginning. God does not exist to infinity but is infinity

Okay, so if god is infinity, what does that mean for us?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

god is beyond time. creations are subject to time. what was before time begins? god.

God is beyond time? Can you explain what exactly that means? How can time begin or end?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

^ pretty dumb question childishly posed.

Ah, and yet you don't have an answer for it, only a childish retort.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

God is energy, intelligent energy, energy has no end.

Does energy have a beginning?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

According to the Rig Veda, even the creator may not know where it came from.


HYMN CXXIX. Creation.
1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
3 Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.
4 Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.
Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.
5 Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?
There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder
6 Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
7 He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.

Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

Thank you, this is very interesting indeed.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

All things that begin to exist require a cause. If God never began to exist, then He does not require a cause.

Okay, so god never began to exist. Then how do we know god actually exists?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Why does God need an origin? I know many who believe the universe, or at least the matter that makes up the universe, never had an origin. That it is a cycle.

I was trying to understand why creationists believe that we cannot originate without god, and yet god does not need an origin. Why do we need an origin then?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Who created the "law of physics?" or accidentalism random chance all identically psychotic as creationism intellect designed . Seems like its all just whacko "normals" just arguing to me. But I am left handed so there ya go!! Then again most people never venture out into the wilderness either. That to is normal.

Were laws of physics created or do we just happen to live in a universe that happened to have the laws of physics that made our existence possible?

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

You should ask Mormons this, though they are somewhat more stricter in the "Dos & Don'ts" department, they are actually open to the possibility the God, Abrahamic God, of all creation isn't the first, that even he has a creator & so does that God's creator & so on.
They even entertain the idea that God didn't create everything on his own but had help from Wife.

Also, "creationist" can apply to any belief system that involves a deity that said "I created you and you are my children", Zeus and Amun-Ra have made those same claims as the Christian God, and I bet there are many other pantheon leader Gods that have made the same claim.

And how can we seriously ask that question expecting ANY of us to know? Look at every single deity from every single religion, both the long dead religions, and the current ones.
If say that Deities were NOT imagined by mortals and they've ALWAYS existed before man was born, how the in the hell could anyone living or dead honestly answer such a question?

Even the big bang, it is still just a theory, a guess, we don't actually KNOW 100% that "this is how it happened" cause (and I know this is a dumb answer, but it is the truth) we weren't there when it happened.

It does however beg the question, mainly Zeus and his pantheon: If they rely on our belief to exist, how did they exist if Zeus was our creator? And why did they need to rely on us, our belief in them, to exist when they were born from Gaia & Chronos? These are questions however that can only be answered by the beings themselves cause all we can do is speculate on it and make up differing viewpoint conclusions based on our very very limited understanding of them.

I totally agree with your statement.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I'm not sure but does "apparent schizophrenic belief" mean tha you have already answered you own question?

I meant 'apparent' in the sense that on the surface it seems that way (to a layperson let's say), but I would like to actually ask people and know what they actually believe.

So... who created that which was necessary to have what we have today? Or did it eternally exist?

I don't know. What do you think?