1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured For the love of god, can someone explain who created god?

Discussion in 'Evolution Vs. Creationism' started by FlyingTeaPot, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:11 AM.

  1. FlyingTeaPot

    FlyingTeaPot Irrational Rationalist

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2010
    Messages:
    2,197
    Ratings:
    +644
    Religion:
    None
    To all my dear creationist friends, I have a simple question which you might divine ;) from the title.

    In another thread, I came across a post whose author clearly believes that god created everything including us. What I want to understand is, how come creationists can suspend their disbelief in regards to the origin of god, and yet in the same breath vehemently deny the possibility of origin of life without a creator.

    Can someone explain this apparent schizophrenic belief?
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  2. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    431
    Ratings:
    +130
    Religion:
    none
    Not sure how broad the term "creationist" is. Never-the-less, I have the same feeling about non-godists. How can they suspend their disbelief in the alternative theories? Ah well, different strokes I guess. Ever wake up slowly in the morning and go through several mental places, each one totally logical until the next one totally debunks it? Waiting for the pudding.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2013
    Messages:
    1,796
    Ratings:
    +629
    Religion:
    One that which the Creator made

    It is impossible to conceive infinity not it’s beginning. God does not exist to infinity but is infinity
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +230
    god is beyond time. creations are subject to time. what was before time begins? god.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    35,786
    Ratings:
    +8,904
    Religion:
    Judaism
    ^ pretty dumb question childishly posed.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Faux Goat

    Faux Goat New Member

    Joined:
    Monday
    Messages:
    4
    Ratings:
    +3
    Religion:
    Christian
    All things that begin to exist require a cause. If God never began to exist, then He does not require a cause. Hence certain of his titles: First Cause, Unmoved Mover, etc. The challenge for the skeptic is to demonstrate that an eternally existent being is a logical impossibility.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. ArtieE

    ArtieE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2012
    Messages:
    5,480
    Ratings:
    +992
    Religion:
    None
    Did God exist an hour before time existed? Two hours?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. fallingblood

    fallingblood Agnostic Theist

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2009
    Messages:
    9,967
    Ratings:
    +499
    Why does God need an origin? I know many who believe the universe, or at least the matter that makes up the universe, never had an origin. That it is a cycle.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  9. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2016
    Messages:
    1,211
    Ratings:
    +230
    no. god is eternal, there was no time measuring before time was created.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. socharlie

    socharlie Active Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2017
    Messages:
    515
    Ratings:
    +110
    Religion:
    christian heretic
    God is energy, intelligent energy, energy has no end.
     
  11. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    431
    Ratings:
    +130
    Religion:
    none
    Uhmm... not getting the atemporal thing?
     
  12. allfoak

    allfoak Alchemist

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2014
    Messages:
    4,260
    Ratings:
    +1,477
    Religion:
    My Life
    simple.
    The All, is all and is in all.
     
    #12 allfoak, Feb 14, 2018 at 12:05 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 1:17 PM
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Jedster

    Jedster Bazinga

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2015
    Messages:
    1,240
    Ratings:
    +720
    Religion:
    eclectician
    According to the Rig Veda, even the creator may not know where it came from.


    HYMN CXXIX. Creation.

    1. THEN was not non-existent nor existent: there was no realm of air, no sky beyond it.
    What covered in, and where? and what gave shelter? Was water there, unfathomed depth of water?
    2 Death was not then, nor was there aught immortal: no sign was there, the day's and night's divider.
    That One Thing, breathless, breathed by its own nature: apart from it was nothing whatsoever.
    3 Darkness there was: at first concealed in darkness this All was indiscriminated chaos.
    All that existed then was void and form less: by the great power of Warmth was born that Unit.
    4 Thereafter rose Desire in the beginning, Desire, the primal seed and germ of Spirit.
    Sages who searched with their heart's thought discovered the existent's kinship in the non-existent.
    5 Transversely was their severing line extended: what was above it then, and what below it?
    There were begetters, there were mighty forces, free action here and energy up yonder
    6 Who verily knows and who can here declare it, whence it was born and whence comes this creation?
    The Gods are later than this world's production. Who knows then whence it first came into being?
    7 He, the first origin of this creation, whether he formed it all or did not form it,
    Whose eye controls this world in highest heaven, he verily knows it, or perhaps he knows not.


    Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN CXXIX. Creation.
     
  14. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2017
    Messages:
    431
    Ratings:
    +130
    Religion:
    none
    Bazinga?? Sheldon??
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Altfish

    Altfish Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2014
    Messages:
    2,977
    Ratings:
    +2,381
    Religion:
    Humanist
    Perhaps god was Intelligently Designed?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2012
    Messages:
    11,682
    Ratings:
    +4,771
    Religion:
    Buddhistic Panenthetic Jesusonian

    And what material did He/She/It use?
     
  17. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2011
    Messages:
    2,848
    Ratings:
    +813
    Who created the "law of physics?" or accidentalism random chance all identically psychotic as creationism intellect designed . Seems like its all just whacko "normals" just arguing to me. But I am left handed so there ya go!! Then again most people never venture out into the wilderness either. That to is normal.
     
  18. ExVasterist

    ExVasterist Man of a Thousand Names

    Joined:
    Tuesday
    Messages:
    59
    Ratings:
    +26
    Religion:
    None
    You should ask Mormons this, though they are somewhat more stricter in the "Dos & Don'ts" department, they are actually open to the possibility the God, Abrahamic God, of all creation isn't the first, that even he has a creator & so does that God's creator & so on.
    They even entertain the idea that God didn't create everything on his own but had help from Wife.

    Also, "creationist" can apply to any belief system that involves a deity that said "I created you and you are my children", Zeus and Amun-Ra have made those same claims as the Christian God, and I bet there are many other pantheon leader Gods that have made the same claim.

    And how can we seriously ask that question expecting ANY of us to know? Look at every single deity from every single religion, both the long dead religions, and the current ones.
    If say that Deities were NOT imagined by mortals and they've ALWAYS existed before man was born, how the in the hell could anyone living or dead honestly answer such a question?

    Even the big bang, it is still just a theory, a guess, we don't actually KNOW 100% that "this is how it happened" cause (and I know this is a dumb answer, but it is the truth) we weren't there when it happened.

    It does however beg the question, mainly Zeus and his pantheon: If they rely on our belief to exist, how did they exist if Zeus was our creator? And why did they need to rely on us, our belief in them, to exist when they were born from Gaia & Chronos? These are questions however that can only be answered by the beings themselves cause all we can do is speculate on it and make up differing viewpoint conclusions based on our very very limited understanding of them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    3,238
    Ratings:
    +680
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    I'm not sure but does "apparent schizophrenic belief" mean tha you have already answered you own question?

    So... who created that which was necessary to have what we have today? Or did it eternally exist?
     
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2007
    Messages:
    48,455
    Ratings:
    +9,143
    Religion:
    None (atheist)
    If God never began to exist, is it possible for him to exist?

    Actually, the challenge for the monotheist is to demonstrate that one such thing can exist, but more than one is impossible. Good luck with that.

    And in the typical context - arguments for the existence of gods - it's up to the theist to demonstrate that "eternally existent beings" are possible. If that isn't done, then we're still left at "God may or may not exist," which was our position even before the attempted proof of God.

    The skeptic's position isn't "God must not exist;" it's "when you say 'God must exist,' I don't find it convincing."
     
    • Winner Winner x 3
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...