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Featured For the followers of the Abrahamic Faiths, do you believe in the same God?

Discussion in 'Comparative Religion' started by Syazrin Mohd Noor, Jun 6, 2018.

  1. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Part of the question is problematic. The trinity described in the Quran is not the Trinity believed by Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox. The Quran describes a false trinity of father mother and son and no Christian today does or should believe that and I agree that it is false.

    The Athenasian Trinity of orthodox protestant and Catholics, eastern and western says the trinity is where Three in persons (father son and spirit) and one is divine essence. Mary is not part of the trinity and never was... maybe some erring people at the time thought that but it;s not the trinity

    On the Trinity see Delighting in the Trinity by Michael Reeves
     
    #61 whirlingmerc, Jun 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2018
  2. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Wa Alaikum Salaam:

    Inshallah, you are still present on this Forum. Your thought processes on religion seem to roughly follow my own, so I thought that perhaps we could chat some? I have followed Christianity, Islam, and Mormonism (It took me years to realize that while Islam and Mormonism have some similarities, Mormonism is an unGodly cult.

    These days I am mistrustful, and confused, or perhaps not at all confused.

    To me the God of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims is the same, so I call myself an Abrahamic Religionist. My largest point of confusion is who is Jesus Christ, Issa PBUH, or the Messiah? The Muslims I used to be with got very angry, emphatically insisting that Allah SWT is only one God and he has no son. I agree that Allah SWT is the most supreme and all follow him. But to be angry with someone over the status of Issa PBUH and cut their head off is a violation of everything that the Prophet Muhammad PBUH told us. Additionally, when Issa was asked by Allah SWT what he had done on Earth, his reply was, "I have done nothing but what you sent me to do."

    I would be interested in your thoughts on these issues.

    Ma Salaama

    Ellen
     
  3. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    My thoughts are that this post is extremely bigoted, narrow-minded, uninformed and hateful. But then I considered the source and realized that was to be expected.
     
    #63 Katzpur, Jul 3, 2018
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  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I absolutely do believe we worship the same God, and I'm pleased to hear that you do, too.
     
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  5. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Abrahamic faiths believe in One God, and most Jews, Muslims and Christians would say it is the same God, though there are some pointy headed folk.
     
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  6. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    The Dharmic religions say there is one Reality too. Hindus see that all their gods are just manifestations of the one Reality, or God, Brahman too. Ironically, Christians have their Jesus Christ as the incarnation of their one God, while when looking at Krishna as an Avatar they see that as different, somehow.
     
  7. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Christians are sharply divided on this issue. Perhaps the majority of them are Trinitarian and think that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one. Over the years, Christians have killed each other over this and other issues. What a silly way to die.

    I am non Trinitarian and see them all as separate but in agreement with each other. I take the Bible and Quran pretty literally. Yes, to me the Flood and the parting of the Red Sea did happen. As to arguing about it, that would be pretty silly, since none of us can prove a thing. This is the end times, so we should all be looking at what is important, not these insane, divisive issues. Just saying.
     
  8. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    My view is that Jesus used the term 'Father" as a spiritual relationship that God could be as close to us as a father is to a son rather than meaning He was a literal physical "Son" of God.

    The trinity also can have other meanings such as

    But as to the question of the Trinity, know, O advancer unto God, that in each one of the cycles wherein the Lights have shone forth upon the horizons (i. e., in each prophetic dispensation) and the Forgiving Lord hath revealed Himself on Mount Paran (see Habbakkuk 3:3, etc.) or Mount Sinai, or Mount Seir (see Ezekiel 35), there are necessarily three things:

    The Giver of Grace,
    and the Grace,
    and the Recipient of the Grace;


    the Source of the Effulgence,
    and the Effulgence,
    and the Recipient of the Effulgence;


    the Illuminator,
    and the Illumination,
    and Illuminated.


    ~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 115
     
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  9. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    Well, I am an "inclusive monotheist," so yes I believe we all believe in the same God. We all believe in the God of Abraham, so it seems rather obvious. But I personally would go even farther than that. For me, it is clear that there is only one God, or Divine, or whatever you want to call the Creative Force/Being that upholds the universe, that he/she/it is ultimately unified, although can be manifested in a variety of ways (such as the Shekineh in Judaism, or how we Jews say that every created thing has the spark of the Divine in it). For convention's sake I'll call him God. We cannot fathom this infinite God because we are only finite beings -- therefore we perceive only in part. This is why we have differing ideas about the Divine -- it's the old Buddhist tale of the blind men and the elephant. So IMHO whether we address the Divine as God, Jesus, Brahmen, Tao, or Lamed (I just made that up for this post! LOL) it doesn't matter. We are addressing the Divine as best we can, and he/she/it hears us.

    Now, as to the more conventional explanations.

    Judaism considers Muslims to be Righteous Gentiles, meaning they serve God and do good. On Christians, it depends what Jew you ask. (Christianity is always a sticky subject because of the long persecution that has only recently ended.) Some Jews say tht because Christians worship a man, Jesus, as God, that this cannot be the same God as the God of Abraham. But other Jews (including the Orthodox) do not agree. They say that a Gentile can have a symbol for God (such as the sun in Egyptian monotheism) and it is not the same thing as idolatry for them. Finally, Messianic Jews exist, let's just admit the reality, however uncomfortable it is for Jews--it makes no sense to say we can have Buddhist Jews and atheist Jews and Jews who believe the Rebbe is the Messiah, but if a Jew believes that Yeshua is the Messiah somehow he's not a Jew? A large minority of the younger generation of Jews accept MJ's as fellows Jews (accepting their beliefs is another issue).

    Islam considers Christians and Jews to be "People of the Book." They were simply classified differently than polytheists. Again, it's going to depend on which Muslim you ask. Some say they are simply tolerated because they are monotheists. But others will say it is because they also worship the same God.

    In Christianity, there is also a divide. Evangelicals tend to take an exclusive stance that because Jews and Muslims don't believe Jesus is God they worship a different God. But Mainline Churches and Catholicism look at things differently. Catholicism came out with a whole document during Vatican 2 that deals with its commonalities with Muslims and Jews. I think the whole point of Nostra Aetate is that when a Jew says he is praying to the God of his fathers, he actually is.
     
  10. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    - The movement was started by Protestants
    - The movement is controlled by Protestants
    - The movement is supported by Protestants
    - They hold the same beliefs as Protestants
    - Most of their members aren't Jewish under Halakha
    - They explicitly target Jews who aren't that familiar with Judaism, just like all other Christians
    - They believe in the so called New Testament, just like all other Christians

    Yeah I am getting a really Jewish vibe off that.



    Generally seen as crazy people and if they continue down that path they will become like the Christians or the Sabbateans or even worse ... Frankists.
     
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  11. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    If their mom is a Jew, they're a Jew. Nuff said.
     
  12. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully we have thorough laws to root out Heresy.
     
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  13. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    Being a heretic doens't mean you aren't a Jew. My goodness. We have no problems saying that a Jew can be an atheist even though atheism is a heresy.

    A recent Pew Research Study on the Subject showed the 34% of Millenial Jews say that belief in Jesus is compatible with being Jewish. That doesn't mean they think it's good idea. Just that it's compatible. Kind of like believing the Rebbe is going to rise from the dead. It's compatible even if you think its weird.
     
    #73 ChanaR, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  14. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    Which I didn't say.

    They are a heretic though. Which is pretty much the lowest step on the ladder that is Judaism. They are even below the Ger Toshav who is allowed to bring sacrifices to the temple while the heretic isn't.

    So yeah they are Jewish. But they won't even go to whatever comes after death.


    That said, most Christians in disguise are still not halakhically Jewish.
     
  15. ChanaR

    ChanaR Member

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    I would agree with you that Messianic Jewish congregations are full of Gentiles, or at least most of them. But then again, almost a fourth of the people at my Reform Temple are Gentile (we have a LOT of intermarriage and we get all the visitors from the religion courses at the local university). Then there is the fact that Reform halakha accepts as Jews those whose fathers are Jews if they are raised in the faith, but other Jews do not accept them as Jewish. On top of that, not all Jews consider Reform converts to be halakhically Jewish. So to some extent I commiserate.

    My roommate is MJ. She is the one who introduced me to this forum. I just don't think of her as a Gentile. We light Shabbat candles together, plan kosher meals together... Of course, I'm kind of inclusivistic for a Jew (I study Taoism, Buddhism, even Christianity etc.) so I'm probably just more open.
     
    #75 ChanaR, Aug 6, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  16. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    There are severe problems with 'since none of us can prove anything.' The overwhelming evidence has confidently determined that there was absolutely no such Biblical flood, and the earth, solar system, and the universe is billions of years old. The evolution of life billions of years, and humanity millions of years has been demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt,

    There is no room in the objective verifiable evidence for a literal interpretation of Genesis, nor the rest of the Pentateuch.
     
    #76 shunyadragon, Aug 6, 2018
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  17. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps it is not about religion at all? From an Anthropological point of view, we know that humans (And maybe others?) like to separate and categorize things, and they tend to avoid things that don't match the categories they like? Perhaps the proof of an evolved post Homo Sapiens is that they learn to use that talent more intelligently?
     
  18. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I still ask questions, and am receptive to things not known.
     
  19. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    That is a positive note.
    . . . but nonetheless . . .

    There is no room in the objective verifiable evidence for a literal interpretation of Genesis, nor the rest of the Pentateuch.
     
  20. Ellen Brown

    Ellen Brown Well-Known Member
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    I believe the truth might be stranger than we think. Even I sometimes wonder if parts of Scientology could be plausible. :)
     
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