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For the abrahamics who agree with this statement...

Discussion in 'Same Faith Debates' started by Aqualung, Jan 26, 2006.

  1. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    "If you don't know the law, you're not sinning." This is something that pretty much means that if you don't know that it's a sin to eat a certain food, and you eat it, you're not sinning. You're just transgressing.

    What if you do something that you feel guilty about doing but it's not a sin? Like let's say, I for some reason have the thought that doing such-and-such an activity is a sin (even though in reality it's not) and I do it anyway. Would I be sinning?
     
  2. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Transgression of the law is sin. We all were born in sin so we are all sinners whether we know it or not. The question to me is one not to unlike that of "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody heard it, did it make a sound when it hit the ground? I believe that even though we, at birth, did not know of the law, and for those that wasn't brought up around the law, we were brought up learning some form of knowledge of the difference between right and wrong. It's almost like that voice you hear. You know, the one that tells you if you take something that doesn't belong to you that if you get caught you will have to pay the consequences. Keyword for many is "If". Here in lies the problem. Who wants to wager with eternal damnation as to whether or not you'll get caught? Caught I say in trying to manipulate intelligence by scheming to basically throw the wool over YAH's eye's. It doesn't work like that. He sees everything. Which leads into the next item of something you feel is wrong but (here is where I question) you know that it isn't a sin. I am just trying to think of what such a thing could be that I would have bad feelings about? Your going to have to be a little more informative as to what the "thing" is. ;)
     
  3. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Well, I don't know. I'll try to think up an example.
     
  4. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Hmm, interesting hypothetical scenario. I hope I'm not being intrusive, not being Christian and all, but I'd like to provide my opinion, for what it matters.

    [Christian Mode]

    If you believe it to be a sin, but you do it anyway, even if it isn't a sin, you have sinned indirectly. You would have scorned God's wishes indirectly, because you have shown that you are willing to go against God's wishes.

    [/Christian Mode]
     
  5. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    LOL......... You have ruined me. I will be trying to think of something for days now. LOL
     
  6. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Well, so will I! :D

    Druidus - That's what I was thinking, as well. But a lot of people define sin as transgression of the law, so if you're not transgressing law (even if you think you are) you're not sinning.
     
  7. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Aqualung stated for all the "abrahamics" which covers more than christians. It also covers Muslims and Jews.

    The question was ......"What if you do something that you feel guilty about doing but it's not a sin?"

    That is where I had to question what that "something" could be that gave you bad feelings even though it wasn't a sin.

    But........ as Aqualung continued with a scenario of sorta being.......

    "Like let's say, I for some reason have the thought that doing such-and-such an activity is a sin (even though in reality it's not) and I do it anyway. Would I be sinning?"

    If you believe it to be a sin then you would have knowledge that by doing this activity would be in fact breaking one or more of YAH's laws. By transgressing such, you would be committing sin.

    I'm still thinking to Aqualung..... :)
     
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  8. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    I would think that would be a flawed definition of sinning. I hope more Christians get in on this discussion, I must confess, I find it very interesting. It's so wonderful to live in the time of armchair philosophers and theologists. :D Best sport on Earth, in my opinion. ;)
     
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  9. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Aqualung, MAybe this will shed some light for your understanding.


    KJV.........

    Num 15:27 And if any soul sin through ignorance, then he shall bring a she goat of the first year for a sin offering.

    Num 15:28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before the YAH, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

    Num 15:29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

    Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the YAH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

    Num 15:31 Because he hath despised the word of the YAH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
     
  10. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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  11. Linus

    Linus Well-Known Member

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    Do you think, Aqualung, that 1 Corinthians 8:7-12 has anything to do with this? Or do you thin that Paul is talking about something slightly different there?
     
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  12. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I understand it to say that sinning unknowingly is still sin whether you are a jew or not. Once you have found that it is a sin then you need to atone for it. If you say, well o.k. this, this ,this and this is a law and I will do but I don't think that this, this or this is a law then you are being presumptuous and the sin will be on you.

    I will continue to search for you but I am still puzzled as to what that something would be. :D
     
  13. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Oh, I see. I took it to mean that if anybody break a law accidentally (but they still knew it was the law). Like if you accidentally ate something that wasn't kosher, but you still knew what the kosher laws are.
     
  14. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

    2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

    (King James Bible, Romans)

    14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

    14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
     
  15. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yes, ideed I do think so! Thanks. I think that verse does say that if we do something, even if it's not against the law (such as eating food sacrificed to idols) and it makes us feel guilty, then we are sinning.

    What does everybody else think?
     
  16. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    I don't agree with the verses used but your right in what you said about sinning.
     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Romans 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15 since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. NIV

    This says it all for me. Their conscience (as will ours) will justify or condemn them.
     
  18. wmam

    wmam Active Member

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    Yes ............ makes sense to me. No matter who you are, Jew or Gentile, you will die because of your transgression of the laws and you will live for keeping them.
     
  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    What sin were we born guilty of?
     
  20. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Apparently, "Original Sin". Look here:

    Original Sin

    Though, I don't really understand why Original Sin would apply to me. Did not God say that the sins of the father are seperate from the sins of the son? That sin does not travel along family lines? (Meaning that a son cannot be punished for the sins of his father/ancestors.)
     
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