1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

For Noahides or any in Judaism

Discussion in 'Judaism DIR' started by Gerry, Feb 10, 2020.

  1. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,662
    Ratings:
    +900
    Religion:
    Love and truth
    In my reading of my Bible, a question has arisen which I think can best be answered by someone in Judaism or Noahidism.

    Forgive my errors or misunderstandings.

    Hopefully they will not have an affect on my thread.


    (I am assuming Noahides utilize the Torah. (Since Noah is mentioned there))

    Something recently came to my attention.

    I was noticing that wine is mentioned quite often, and I thought that there was no wine or grapes in the Garden of Eden, so I checked and confirmed that. Then I decided to check where wine, or grapes, or vineyard is first mentioned. And I discovered it was with Noah.

    I found this to be interesting, because the very first thing that Noah does (written about) after leaving the ark, is to plant a vineyard, make wine, and get drunk.

    That does seem a bit odd, and raises many questions. Where did the vines come from? How did he know how to make wine? Why get drunk? Why mention it in the Torah?

    You can give me some insight regarding the above if you want to, but my question is this: does wine have some special meaning or special purpose?


    The following is more of a bonus type question. If you don’t know or follow anything related to Jesus, just ignore it because the question above is of most interest to me.

    I was looking in the writings related to Jesus regarding wine, and noticed that His first miracle was turning water into wine. And this was so it could be used at a wedding party, where the guests had already been given plenty of wine. It seems to me like an odd choice for a miracle, but then I admit I don’t know much. Do you think there is some connection between these two events?

    Thanks much in advance. I’m just trying to learn and understand more.
     
  2. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2014
    Messages:
    5,078
    Ratings:
    +2,435
    Religion:
    Jewish
    There are plenty of commentaries on this event. The commentator Rabbi Shlomo the Son of Yitzchak wrote

    ויחל [AND NOAH] BEGAN — (The word may be connected also with a root meaning “profane”) He profaned (degraded) himself, for he should have occupied himself first with planting something different) (Genesis Rabbah 36:3).

    ויטע כרם AND HE PLANTED A VINEYARD — When he went into the Ark he had taken with him vine-branches and shoots of fig trees (Genesis Rabbah 36:3).
    -------------

    Nachmanides explains

    Noach … planted a vineyard. While earlier generations had planted grapevines, Noach, motivated by his desire for wine, was the first to plant an entire vineyard.
    ----------
    Ovadia ben Jacob Sforno wrote

    Noach began. Since his first undertaking was an unworthy one it led to disgraceful consequences, illustrating that a small flaw at the outset of an endeavor leads to a large one in the end.
    ----------
    The Baal Haturim states that the stems came from the Garden of Eden.

    There are plenty of other commentators who have things to say here.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2013
    Messages:
    11,381
    Ratings:
    +7,741
    Religion:
    Mega-Super-Ultra-Orthodox Judaism
    According to one Talmudic opinion, the Tree of Knowledge was actually a grape vine.

    The Christian sub would be a better place to ask philosophical or theological questions about Jesus. Most of us don't even believe that the NT depicts actual events.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Harel13

    Harel13 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2019
    Messages:
    1,651
    Ratings:
    +1,236
    Religion:
    Orthodox Judaism
    I heard once - no sources at the moment - that he was depressed with the state of the world: almost everyone he knew - and considering that not too many generations passed from creation, he probably knew a large percentage of the world's population - was now gone, dead in a terrible punishment. So he drank to provide some relief (instead of doing what God commanded him, which was re-populate the world).
     
    #4 Harel13, Feb 10, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2020
  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,821
    Ratings:
    +3,476
    Religion:
    Judaism
    "When wine enters, secrets are revealed". (Eruvin 65a)

    Wine [in Hebrew "yayin"] comes from a hidden place; therefore its numerical value is 70, which is the same as the word "secret" [in Hebrew, "sod"]. (Chidushei Aggadah, Sanhedrin)

    ( source )
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Gerry

    Gerry Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,662
    Ratings:
    +900
    Religion:
    Love and truth
    Thank you very much for your thoughtful response.
     
Loading...