For Muslims only,the Ummah

[England my lionheart]

Salam alaikum People,i have a question to ask and any answers would be great.

What does the Ummah mean to you?

 

[Shia Islam]

The first thing to rise in my mind when I hear the word Ummah is the Quranic Verse:

" And that this (is) your Ummah (nation), one Ummah (nation) and I am your Lord so fear and obey Me"

So it means that Muslims need to achive Unity.

Not only Muslims, even the Abrahamic religions need to find the common grounds.

Not only the religious people, all humans need to think about one another, as Imam Ali (A.S) said:

" The people are either brothers in religion or your equal in creation'"

 

[England my lionheart]

Thanks for the reply,i would be iterested to see some others

 

[Abu Rashid]

as-salaamu 'ala man itaba' al-huda,

Linguistically, the word Ummah is a common Semitic word, deriving ultimately from the word for mother ("umm") in all of the Semitic languages (Hebrew, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge'ez, Amharic etc and of course Arabic). In fact if we look in the Bible, we'll find both Hebrew (3 times) and Aramaic (8 times) also have the word "ummah" (אמ&#1492 meaning a "nation, tribe or people", and it's used in several passages, for instance:

"These [are] the sons of Ishmael, and these [are] their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations." (Genesis 25:16)

"And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed." (Daniel 7:14)

So as we can see, linguistically speaking the word is common to all Semitic languages, and it carries the meaning of a nation, tribe or people, being derived from the word for mother, in the sense that the nation is the carer and nurturer of the people.

In Arabic and Islam specifically, the word carries this same basic meaning, but takes on more of a concept of a religious community. The Christians have their own Ummah and the Jews have their own Ummah as well. Each Ummah will be called to account separately on the day of judgement. So the word is not specific to the Islamic religious community either it refers to any religious community, or people, or nation, or basically any state of people who consider themselves to be united and roughly homogenous in aims, culture and sentiments.

Hope that helps to clarify. Was there anything specific you wanted to know about the term?

 

[England my lionheart]

thanks Abu,i know what the Ummah is but i was hoping to see what it personally means to you Guys,for instance a Muslim i take Tea with on occasion thinks of the Ummah in past tense and not of great importance whereas some Muslims on this Forum would consider the Ummah to be very important and have their own view of what it is and what it should be.

 

[Abu Rashid]

Is there some kind of 'sunset clause' in the Qur'an according to his reasoning, whereby the concept will just become invalid?

The Muslim Ummah will remain the Muslim Ummah until judgement day. If your friend does not subscribe to it, then his belief would be seriously mixed up. Perhaps what he means is that since the colonial period the Muslim Ummah has become fragmented and discordant? So he's perhaps speaking more about the reality on the ground, rather than the Islamic requirement? Nobody could doubt that.

 

[England my lionheart]

Is there some kind of 'sunset clause' in the Qur'an according to his reasoning, whereby the concept will just become invalid?

The Muslim Ummah will remain the Muslim Ummah until judgement day. If your friend does not subscribe to it, then his belief would be seriously mixed up. Perhaps what he means is that since the colonial period the Muslim Ummah has become fragmented and discordant? So he's perhaps speaking more about the reality on the ground, rather than the Islamic requirement? Nobody could doubt that.

Yes i think thats what he means,fragmented and discordant

 

[Abu Rashid]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind: Their Land is one, their War is one, their Peace is one, their Honor is one and their Trust is one." (Ahmed)

This is what Muhammad (pbuh) said about the Muslim Ummah, and this is what we believe. The reality on the ground is merely our test in this life.

 

[England my lionheart]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind: Their Land is one, their War is one, their Peace is one, their Honor is one and their Trust is one." (Ahmed)

This is what Muhammad (pbuh) said about the Muslim Ummah, and this is what we believe. The reality on the ground is merely our test in this life.

I don't see it as a test,just like the British Empire Islam had its full bloom and i wold doubt it could ever do so again to the same degree.

 

[Abu Rashid]

I don't see it as a test

Then I'm assuming you don't believe in the one true God.

just like the British Empire Islam had its full bloom and i wold doubt it could ever do so again to the same degree

The British empire was a purely secular entity, so there's no real incentive for it to rise again. Even if you look at history, you'll find the Islamic Caliphate actually waned before and was reborn. With the devastation of the Mongols, the Islamic civilisation was virtually wiped off the map, yet it re-rose under those same mongol/turkic invaders¸who themselves embraced Islam after conquering the Muslims.

 

[Shia Islam]

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The Muslim Ummah is a unique Ummah among the whole of mankind: Their Land is one, their War is one, their Peace is one, their Honor is one and their Trust is one." (Ahmed)

This is what Muhammad (pbuh) said about the Muslim Ummah, and this is what we believe. The reality on the ground is merely our test in this life.

Don't say 'The Prophet (Peace be upon him)' without adding his progeny. This is the prophet command.

Say the prophet (Peace be upon him and his progeny)

 

[Abu Rashid]

Don't say 'The Prophet (Peace be upon him)' without adding his progeny

Whilst it is certainly nice to wish peace upon his progeny, and his wives and companions and all other pious believers even, I'll restrict myself to wishing peace upon the one I'm speaking about thank you.

 

[Shia Islam]

"Allah citeth an example for those who disbelieve: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot, who were under two of Our righteous slaves yet betrayed them so that they (the husbands) availed them naught against Allah and it was said (unto them): Enter the Fire along with those who enter." َ Quran

"And among those around you of the wandering Arabs there are hypocrites, and among the townspeople of Al-Madinah (there are some who) persist in hypocrisy whom thou (O Muhammad) knowest not. We, We know them, and We shall chastise them twice; then they will be relegated to a painful doom." Quran

 

[Abu Rashid]

You want to curse half the sahabah and the wives of the prophet (pbuh) because there were some hypocrites?

To me be my deen, and to you yours.

(there are some who) persist in hypocrisy whom thou (O Muhammad) knowest not. We, We know them

Even according to this, Allah (swt) knows them, whilst Muhammad (pbuh) knows them not... yet you think you know them, and will curse half the sahabah?

 

[England my lionheart]

Then I'm assuming you don't believe in the one true God.

Correct,i do not believe in the Abrahmic God



The British empire was a purely secular entity, so there's no real incentive for it to rise again. Even if you look at history, you'll find the Islamic Caliphate actually waned before and was reborn. With the devastation of the Mongols, the Islamic civilisation was virtually wiped off the map, yet it re-rose under those same mongol/turkic invaders¸who themselves embraced Islam after conquering the Muslims.

Trouble is Muslims are embracing Islam in a myriad of ways,there is no constant,there is no leadership and none on the horizon

 

[Abu Rashid]

Trouble is Muslims are embracing Islam in a myriad of ways,there is no constant

Not really. Islam is Islam. When people embrace Islam, then it's constant.

Not quite sure exactly what you meant to capture with those words, but I don't see it myself.

there is no leadership

This is certainly true.

and none on the horizon

This is not.

Muslims are aware of the leadership issue, and are working hard to raise a generation of leaders. I think this is what the West fears. When you have Muslims growing up who don't just accept to be led by the reigns, then it's not conducive to the colonialist outlook for the Muslim world.

 

[Shia Islam]

Y

To me be my deen, and to you yours.

I happy with my Deen, Deen of:

1. Mohammed
2. Ali
3. Fatima
4. Hasan
5. Hussain
6. Ali
7. Mohammed
8. Jaffer
9. Mosa
10. Ali
11. Mohammed
12. Ali
13. Hasan
14. Mohammed

Peace be upon them all.

 

[Abu Rashid]

I happy with my Deen, Deen of:

And don't forget most important of all the deen of Abdullah Ibn Saba.

You worship the idol in your signature picture, not Allah, that is why our deens are worlds apart.

 

[Shia Islam]

And don't forget most important of all the deen of Abdullah Ibn Saba.

You worship the idol in your signature picture, not Allah, that is why our deens are worlds apart.

The silly accusation that Abdullah Ibn Saba is the source of shia'sm, is an old accusation that has been refuted not only by shia, but even by some sunni moderate scholars, and it's enough to tell you that millions of newly Shia converts have discovered that Shia Islam is the true Islam, from the sunnis sources themselves.

As for you other claim that we worship idols, i can just tell you:

"Allah will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein ye used to differ." Quran

 

[England my lionheart]

Not really. Islam is Islam. When people embrace Islam, then it's constant.

Not quite sure exactly what you meant to capture with those words, but I don't see it myself.

I mean apart from the Qur'an there there isn't an accross the board agreement in Islam,different sects etc

This is not.

Muslims are aware of the leadership issue, and are working hard to raise a generation of leaders. I think this is what the West fears. When you have Muslims growing up who don't just accept to be led by the reigns, then it's not conducive to the colonialist outlook for the Muslim world.

IMO Islam could do with some leadership but i doubt anyone remotely in agrement with Wahab Qutb or Al Banna as these IMO were 1400 years out of time,some Muslims in the UK are innovative which i know isn't in keeping with any of the afore mentioned Islamic writers but they are becomming more popular.