For Jews: what is the Soul?

[gnostic]

I know that in Christian teachings, Christians believe that the soul is a spirit of human, that when he or she die, the soul is then rewarded in heaven or punished eternally in hell.

But what do the Jews think the “soul” is?

Take for instance, in Genesis 2:7, in the King James Version, God crested man from dust, breath life into the body, and then -

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

- the body became a “living soul”.

The translation of the Septuagint from 1851 translation by Lancelot Brenton, also used the word living "soul":

7 And God formed the man of dust of the earth, and breathed upon his face the breath of life, and the man became a living soul.

I am assuming that Jews would disagree with this translation, or with teaching that is a spirit of man.

In English translation but from Jewish translations, this one is from Jewish Publication, the 1985 translation (NJPS), which used the word "being", not "soul":

7the LORD God formed manb from the dust of the earth.c He blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being.

Then there is the Dead Sea Scrolls of Genesis:

7 And the L[ORD God] formed [man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.]

And in the Orthodox Jewish Bible:

7 And Hashem Elohim formed the adam of the aphar min haadamah, and breathed into his nostrils the nishmat chayyim; and the adam became a nefesh chayyah.

Does "nephesh" means "soul" or "being"?

 

[rosends]

I can provide a few useful webpages, but I would also add that the "OJB" is not related to Judaism at all.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3194/jewish/What-Is-a-Soul-Neshamah.htm

The Soul

 

[gnostic]

I can provide a few useful webpages, but I would also add that the "OJB" is not related to Judaism at all.

Thanks for that. I was unaware of that about OJB. I got that translation from the Biblegateway website, not knowing about its origin.

I do have 2 copies of NJPS, one in (blue) book format, the other is a Kindle copy.

 

[LAGoff]

It seems to me that this breathing [by God] into Man's countenance the breath of life is another way of saying that we are made in the image and likeness of God-- meaning that I have free will and so am not -- if I choose to exercise it -- subject to 'unfreedom'. The Tora would then be an instruction manual on how to 'exercise' this image and likeness of God in the service of God.
I say "in the service of God" because Hebrew Scripture doesn't overtly teach about the disposition of our souls in an afterlife (for instance, see the next chapter -- 3:19 -- that seems to contradict 2:7, but see Eccles.12:7) in order to free us up to get down to the [overt] business of making a home for God down here on earth. (see Ex 25:8 for example)
Remember, we were taken OUT of the most post-mortem obsessed nation the world has ever known (Egypt) to serve God, not the post-mortem.
And what of the 'post-mortem'? As one who has lived with the Hebrew Scriptures long enough... all I can say is that that God has struck the right balance between 'down' here and up 'there'.

 

[Rival]

***MOD POST**
THIS THREAD IS FOR JEWS ONLY.​

 

[gnostic]

I say "in the service of God" because Hebrew Scripture doesn't overtly teach about the disposition of our souls in an afterlife (for instance, see the next chapter -- 3:19 -- that seems to contradict 2:7, but see Eccles.12:7) in order to free us up to get down to the [overt] business of making a home for God down here on earth. (see Ex 25:8 for example)

Thanks, LAGoff.

About Genesis 2:7 and Ecclesiastes 12:7:

7the LORD God formed man from the dust of the earth. He blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living being.

7And the dust returns to the ground As it was, And the lifebreath returns to God Who bestowed it.

When these 2 passages, together, it would seem that soul just means the soul is the “breath of life” or “life-breath” - hence the soul is life itself, and that it is return to God once we die.

That would mean that soul or life-breath has nothing to do with spirits of humans; not in the way Christians and Muslims think about soul and spirits, hence no afterlife in which essence of our “self” survive.

What I mean by “self”, for instances, our consciousness, personality, memory, etc, would all cease to exist when we die.

Am I right on how I'm interpreting these passages?

 

[gnostic]

Thanks, Rival.

I appreciate that. Because I do want Jew’s views about the soul, particularly in Genesis 2:7.

Having views of Christians, Muslims or Baha’i would complicate matters, since I really wanted Jews’ views on their own scriptures.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Thanks, Rival.

I appreciate that. Because I do want Jew’s views about the soul, particularly in Genesis 2:7.

Having views of Christians, Muslims or Baha’i would complicate matters, since I really wanted Jews’ views on their own scriptures.

Just FYI. One way to gaurentee that you are getting answers from only Jews on a topic, you may want to ask it in the Judaism DIR. There is sometimes a problem on RF with people who are not Jewish trying to answer questions directed at Jews.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

Thanks for that. I was unaware of that about OJB. I got that translation from the Biblegateway website, not knowing about its origin.

I do have 2 copies of NJPS, one in (blue) book format, the other is a Kindle copy.

Don't worry about it. It can happen. There is a lot of Christian missionary material out there that tries to pass itself off as something Jewish.

 

[Harel13]

Just FYI. One way to gaurentee that you are getting answers from only Jews on a topic, you may want to ask it in the Judaism DIR. There is sometimes a problem on RF with people who are not Jewish trying to answer questions directed at Jews.

@Ehav4Ever the site rules have changed and it's no longer allowed for non-DIR members to post in DIRs. The only option is to post in debates or RQ&A an "x-only" or a similar such title.

 

[Harel13]

Does "nephesh" means "soul" or "being"?

It really depends on the context. Some Jewish sources use "Nefesh" as referring to the soul, others as referring to a lower part of the soul and others as referring to a being.

 

[gnostic]

Just FYI. One way to gaurentee that you are getting answers from only Jews on a topic, you may want to ask it in the Judaism DIR. There is sometimes a problem on RF with people who are not Jewish trying to answer questions directed at Jews.

Would I be able to reply if I post it at Judaism DIR, with me being agnostic?

 

[Harel13]

Would I be able to reply if I post it at Judaism DIR, with me being agnostic?

See:

@Ehav4Ever the site rules have changed and it's no longer allowed for non-DIR members to post in DIRs. The only option is to post in debates or RQ&A an "x-only" or a similar such title.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

@Ehav4Ever the site rules have changed and it's no longer allowed for non-DIR members to post in DIRs. The only option is to post in debates or RQ&A an "x-only" or a similar such title.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[LAGoff]

Thanks, LAGoff.

About Genesis 2:7 and Ecclesiastes 12:7:





When these 2 passages, together, it would seem that soul just means the soul is the “breath of life” or “life-breath” - hence the soul is life itself, and that it is return to God once we die.

That would mean that soul or life-breath has nothing to do with spirits of humans; not in the way Christians and Muslims think about soul and spirits, hence no afterlife in which essence of our “self” survive.

What I mean by “self”, for instances, our consciousness, personality, memory, etc, would all cease to exist when we die.

Am I right on how I'm interpreting these passages?

Unlike animals -- who go back to the earth from which they came -- God breathed something of Himself into Man that is -- logically -- Godly. So one can say that it is eternal, so to speak.
But the fact that you can seriously question this shows me that the Hebrew Scriptures are doing their magic: striking the right balance in regards to the post-mortem-- a balance that is optimal and necessary.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Does "nephesh" means "soul" or "being"?

I suspect it means the same thing that it meant in Genesis 1:20.

 

[gnostic]

I suspect it means the same thing that it meant in Genesis 1:20.

Is the "soul" the "breath of life", not "spirit", that God give to Adam (Genesis 2:7), and take it back as it say in Ecclesiastes 12:7?

I am trying to determine if the Jews believe that the soul is spirit or life or breath?

Does humans have "spirits"?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I am trying to determine if the Jews believe that the soul is spirit or life or breath?

"... if the Jews"?

Some? All?​

 

[gnostic]

"... if the Jews"?

Some? All?​

Some or all...who ever will give answer to my questions?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Some or all...who ever will give answer to my questions?

Perhaps it's your question with all its window dressing sucked from Genesis.

But I'll make you a deal. Define soul and I'll tell you if I believe in it.