For God's So Loved The World . . .

[Deeje]

Sorry, far too many wildly extravagant claims, but on a total of zero actual evidence or science. You "know" that autoimmune diseases didn't happen to humans long ago? How can you be sure that it was just that earlier humans had such a miniscule understanding of how our bodies work that they just ascribed everything that they couldn't explain to curses, witchcraft, wrath of God, and so on?

Humans have increased in their knowledge and understanding as God designed them to do. But man's acquiring of knowledge and implementing his accomplishments, gave him a false impression of his own worth in the scheme of things. He has now placed himself on God's throne, seeing himself as the creator of all things that matter in his world...except that none of it has contributed to a better world in the big picture. The downside has always outweighed any good that was accomplish. How can humans who think they are so smart, be so short-sightedly, stupid?

As they say...."none so blind as those who will not see". If you are shackled to your own way of thinking then nothing I say will make a scrap of difference. I am merely a messenger.....you are free to dismiss the message.

Auto-immune disorders have exploded exponentially with human "progress". It isn't that they didn't exist before, but that, as the human gene pool deteriated, then more and more illnesses manifested that were not in evidence or even identified until recent centuries. Human imperfection goes back to our beginnings. It's been on a downward spiral ever since. To me, that is quite evident.

But the biggest claim of all, you actually claim to "know" what "the life our Creator planned for us" is about! If you don't, then it would be absolutely impossible for you to make the statement that we are so far removed from it.

The Bible clearly states what God intended at the beginning. All we have to do is read Genesis and think about how we started and what went wrong.....and what we lost and how God shows us the way he gets it back for us. This is the Bible's overall theme.

All are free to accept it or to dismiss it. It's a choice....and why we have free will.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

HAs they say...."none so blind as those who will not see". If you are shackled to your own way of thinking then nothing I say will make a scrap of difference. I am merely a messenger.....you are free to dismiss the message..

And right back at you...if you are so shackled to your own when of thinking, then nothing that I say will make a scrap of difference. Worse for you, however, is that I have everything that nature itself says, which backs me up and denies you.

And I'd like to ask you, how, exactly, did you get to be a "messenger," and how did you come to know what the message was, and how did you discern that you were not simply deluding yourself … and trying to delude me?

 

[Deeje]

And right back at you...if you are so shackled to your own when of thinking, then nothing that I say will make a scrap of difference. Worse for you, however, is that I have everything that nature itself says, which backs me up and denies you.

We are all bonded to our belief system......but "what" bonds us is interesting to me. What makes one man's trash, another man's treasure? The exercise of free will allows us to be who we really are and that is the person God sees. That is the person God judges.

And I'd like to ask you, how, exactly, did you get to be a "messenger," and how did you come to know what the message was, and how did you discern that you were not simply deluding yourself … and trying to delude me?

It is the role of all Christians to be Christ's disciples and imitators of him. (1 Peter 2:21) He was first and foremost a preacher and teacher. He told us to preach and make disciples. (Matthew 28:19-20) The Bible provides the message. It is the same message preached by God's son. It features God's Kingdom very strongly...so what is God's Kingdom? Ask half a dozen different denominations that question and get everything from blank stares and attempts to explain it that can get very convoluted. The message is simple however.
God's Kingdom is his government in the hands of his Christ and soon it will crush all other failed rulerships out of existence and replace them with the rulership we should have had in the beginning. This change of rulership will be permanent. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:9-10) When it begins to rule the earth, its citizens will have already been chosen. Not complicated at all really.

As to who is deluding who...? Sometimes we can't tell....but you know what? It doesn't matter, because God is our judge and we are all exposed to the truth whether we acknowledge it or not. Our response is what determines our future. If we are deluded then we aren't what God was looking for in the first place. Its like he is processing applications for citizenship and he is stamping one person for admission and another person as undesirable. We just hope that we are what he is looking for. There is criteria for acceptance.

In the end God accomplishes his will...with us or without us. All we can do is try our level best to measure up.....some will...but most won't. (Matthew 7:13-14) Either way I am doing what Christ told me to do....I believe that....you may choose not to.

 

[BilliardsBall]

. . . he blessed the Earth with all manner of mice and rats.

The Muroidea are a large superfamily of rodents, including mice, rats, voles, hamsters, gerbils, and many other relatives. They occupy a vast variety of habitats on every continent except Antarctica.The following taxonomy is based on recent well-supported molecular phylogenies.

The muroids are classified in six families, 19 subfamilies, around 280 genera, and at least 1750 species.

Family Platacanthomyidae (spiny dormouse and pygmy dormice)
Family Spalacidae (fossorial muroids)
Subfamily Myospalacinae (zokors)
Subfamily Rhizomyinae (bamboo rats and root rats)
Subfamily Spalacinae (blind mole rats)
Clade Eumuroida – typical muroids
Family Calomyscidae
Subfamily Calomyscinae (mouse-like hamsters)
Family Nesomyidae
Subfamily Cricetomyinae (pouched rats and mice)
Subfamily Dendromurinae (African climbing mice, gerbil mice, fat mice and forest mice)
Subfamily Mystromyinae (white-tailed rat)
Subfamily Nesomyinae (Malagasy rats and mice)
Subfamily Petromyscinae (rock mice and the climbing swamp mouse)
Family Cricetidae
Subfamily Arvicolinae (voles, lemmings and muskrat)
Subfamily Cricetinae (true hamsters)
Subfamily Neotominae (North American rats and mice)
Subfamily Sigmodontinae (New World rats and mice)
Subfamily Tylomyinae
Family Muridae
Source: Wikipedia
​

I hope you read that last line above: "at least 1,750 species." 1,750 species made up almost entirely of mice and rats (with a few voles, lemmings, muskrats, gerbils and hamsters thrown in the mix).

So what do you suppose was god's fascination with mice and rats some 6,000 years ago that led him to create so damn many different species? To give you an idea of just how many species this is, here are 1,750 dots, almost all representing a different species of mice and rats

View attachment 24456​

Seem like a lot of over-kill? It sure does to me. Surely the world could have gotten along with half as many species (875) or even a quarter as many (438), Heck I bet 1/10 as many (175) would have sufficed for whatever purpose god had in mind for them. I know the Black Death wouldn't have been the success it was (killing an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia) were it not for the help of mice and rats. But heck, as was later found out only a few species were really necessary.

For god so loved the world he filled it with all manner of vermin. Mice and rats being his most beloved. ​

View attachment 24457

​

See where I'm going with this, creationists? I certainly hope so.

.

Yes, that God triumphs diversity, while you disdain it. Praise Him!

 

[Skwim]

Yes, that God triumphs diversity, while you disdain it. Praise Him!

. ​

 

[viole]

No, I just know how the human immune system is supposed to work. God dosen't make junk.

So, Yersinia Pestis was an uncreated form of life?

Ciao

- viole

 

[viole]

Yes, that God triumphs diversity, while you disdain it. Praise Him!

Well, there are indeed many diverse gods.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Jose Fly]

So, Yersinia Pestis was an uncreated form of life?

That gets to an issue I've raised to creationists over the years......

If the creationist argument that "only intelligence (i.e., God) can create complexity" is true, doesn't that mean God deliberately created the plasmodium parasite to cause malaria? Just look at plasmodium's life cycle....

Surely such an intricate and complex life cycle didn't come about via mindless, unguided evolution, right? Why would God intentionally create an organism to infect and kill us?

 

[Deeje]

So, Yersinia Pestis was an uncreated form of life?

Who said anything biological is uncreated? But nothing is the way it should be, therefore environmental change produces adaptive change in all living things. Nothing produces negative environmental change like humans do. Their impact on the world around them can give some creatures an advantage that other creatures don't have. In plague ridden Europe, rats were given habitats that saw their numbers increase in safe but filthy environments. Malnourished humans succumb to disease more easily than healthy ones do. Do the math.

Everything has its place in the big scheme of things.....but we alter nature to suit ourselves rather than working with nature and having it benefit us. Nature comes back to bite us...sometimes literally.

Our present lifestyle is killing us.....but we are so entrenched in our greedy exploitation of this world's resources that we act as if the world will forgive us.....it is complaining bitterly....but who cares? Who is stepping in to stop the rot? It will take a power stronger than our greed to put a stop to this and save the planet before it's too late. God will do that BECAUSE he loves his creation and will recreate the balance it needs to thrive.

 

[Skwim]

That gets to an issue I've raised to creationists over the years......

If the creationist argument that "only intelligence (i.e., God) can create complexity" is true, doesn't that mean God deliberately created the plasmodium parasite to cause malaria? Just look at plasmodium's life cycle....

Surely such an intricate and complex life cycle didn't come about via mindless, unguided evolution, right? Why would God intentionally create an organism to infect and kill us?

My guess is for the same reason he creates evil (Isaiah 45:7), he enjoys watching his creations suffer. "Praise the Lord."

.

.

 

[Deeje]

My guess is for the same reason he creates evil (Isaiah 45:7), he enjoys watching his creations suffer. "Praise the Lord.".

If you want to believe that, no one is going to stop you. Quoting scripture...or misquoting it seems to serve some purpose for you....

Isaiah 45:7 is indicating the natural balance of things in creation.....everything has an equal opposite...or hadn't you noticed?

"positive...negative"....."in...out"..."up...down"...."with...without"...."black...white".....you get the picture.

But now remember back to the garden of Eden and ask yourself what was the only thing God did not want humans to have knowledge of?

Evil exists as an equal opposite of good. Deciding what was good and what was evil was left in God's jurisdiction because God knew that humans with free will might be swayed to mistake one for the other if the right circumstances presented themselves....and guess what?.....they did. The knowledge that the humans stole did not benefit them in any way...it has just contributed to human misery. Do you get it yet?

 

[viole]

God will do that BECAUSE he loves his creation and will recreate the balance it needs to thrive.

What is the latest prediction concerning His return?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Deeje]

What is the latest prediction concerning His return?

There isn't one......but current world events are certainly very interesting for Bible students. According to Bible prophesy, there is only one government left to take rulership of the world.....it's reign is very short, plunging the world into chaos.....we wait....patiently.

 

[viole]

There isn't one......but current world events are certainly very interesting for Bible students. According to Bible prophesy, there is only one government left to take rulership of the world.....it's reign is very short, plunging the world into chaos.....we wait....patiently.

According to viole’s prophecy, this will take you an unbounded amount of patience.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Deeje]

According to viole’s prophecy, this will take you an unbounded amount of patience.

Ciao

- viole

Or not.....

 

[sun rise]

We are all bonded to our belief system

This thread and many others proves that contention.

It is the role of all Christians to be Christ's disciples and imitators of him.

I would agree.

There isn't one......but current world events are certainly very interesting for Bible students.

For Muslims, the Quran 17:104 states (in some English translations) that the State of Israel is a sign. This is, of course, highly controversial and the translations are all over the map, but this is one:

Sher Ali And after him WE said to the Children of Israel, Dwell ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days comes, WE shall bring you together out of various peoples.'

 

[Deeje]

For Muslims, the Quran 17:104 states (in some English translations) that the State of Israel is a sign. This is, of course, highly controversial and the translations are all over the map, but this is one:

Sher Ali And after him WE said to the Children of Israel, Dwell ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days comes, WE shall bring you together out of various peoples.'

I guess you could see Israel's physical re-entry into the Promised Land as fulfilling prophesy, but only if fleshly Israel were still a significant part of Bible prophesy. However the Christian scriptures indicate that there is no longer a place for fleshly Israel in God's plans concerning his purpose for mankind on this earth.

I see that they had a significant part in producing the Messiah, but as serial covenant breakers, I do not see that God has an obligation to them any longer, since they silenced Jesus in the same way that they had dealt with all the other prophets sent to them. If you read Matthew 23:37-39 you will see what Jesus said about their place in God's future plans....they were "abandoned" as his people. It would take an acknowledgment of Jesus as the one who came "in the name of the Lord" for them to become acceptable once again....but for 2,000 years, as a nation, they never have.

Individual Jews have chosen to follow Jesus as Messiah like they did in the first century.....but the nation of Israel today on the soil that God originally gave them, is nothing special when you consider whom they share it with and how strained relations are with fellow inhabitants. Israel is a blood spilling nation like all the rest. (Isaiah 1:15) Old hatreds are alive and well to this day.

We see in Paul's words to the Galatians that he identified "the Israel of God" as Christians from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds. (Galatians 6:16)

Acts 15:14 states that "for the first time, God turned his attention to the nations to take out of them, a people for his name". That means that "the Israel of God" is not just fleshly Israel...but a new 'spiritual' nation, led by God's Messiah.

To my view, this makes the state of literal Israel nothing special. Since I assume that the "WE" in that prophesy is Islam, then it is also dubious because all of the prophesies and promises concerning the Messiah have to do with Israel as descendants of Isaac, not Ishmael. Jesus was Jewish not Muslim.

Islam is hardly in control of the Promised Land. Israel is certainly not blessed with peace.

 

[Craig Sedok]

. . . he blessed the Earth with all manner of mice and rats.

The Muroidea are a large superfamily of rodents, including mice, rats, voles, hamsters, gerbils, and many other relatives. They occupy a vast variety of habitats on every continent except Antarctica.The following taxonomy is based on recent well-supported molecular phylogenies.

The muroids are classified in six families, 19 subfamilies, around 280 genera, and at least 1750 species.

Family Platacanthomyidae (spiny dormouse and pygmy dormice)
Family Spalacidae (fossorial muroids)
Subfamily Myospalacinae (zokors)
Subfamily Rhizomyinae (bamboo rats and root rats)
Subfamily Spalacinae (blind mole rats)
Clade Eumuroida – typical muroids
Family Calomyscidae
Subfamily Calomyscinae (mouse-like hamsters)
Family Nesomyidae
Subfamily Cricetomyinae (pouched rats and mice)
Subfamily Dendromurinae (African climbing mice, gerbil mice, fat mice and forest mice)
Subfamily Mystromyinae (white-tailed rat)
Subfamily Nesomyinae (Malagasy rats and mice)
Subfamily Petromyscinae (rock mice and the climbing swamp mouse)
Family Cricetidae
Subfamily Arvicolinae (voles, lemmings and muskrat)
Subfamily Cricetinae (true hamsters)
Subfamily Neotominae (North American rats and mice)
Subfamily Sigmodontinae (New World rats and mice)
Subfamily Tylomyinae
Family Muridae
Source: Wikipedia
​

I hope you read that last line above: "at least 1,750 species." 1,750 species made up almost entirely of mice and rats (with a few voles, lemmings, muskrats, gerbils and hamsters thrown in the mix).

So what do you suppose was god's fascination with mice and rats some 6,000 years ago that led him to create so damn many different species? To give you an idea of just how many species this is, here are 1,750 dots, almost all representing a different species of mice and rats

View attachment 24456​

Seem like a lot of over-kill? It sure does to me. Surely the world could have gotten along with half as many species (875) or even a quarter as many (438), Heck I bet 1/10 as many (175) would have sufficed for whatever purpose god had in mind for them. I know the Black Death wouldn't have been the success it was (killing an estimated 75 to 200 million people in Eurasia) were it not for the help of mice and rats. But heck, as was later found out only a few species were really necessary.

For god so loved the world he filled it with all manner of vermin. Mice and rats being his most beloved. ​

View attachment 24457

​

See where I'm going with this, creationists? I certainly hope so.

.

Willard earned their trust. As jesus got a posse of twelve. Sometimes there comes a time in a world where something needs to be made. Spontaneous.