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Featured FOR DEBATE AND DISCUSSION: These women say they had miscarriages. Now they're in jail for abortion.

Discussion in 'Religious News' started by danieldemol, May 29, 2020.

  1. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    ‘Seven months pregnant, Manuela, a mother of two, said she miscarried at her modest home in rural El Salvador. But the police, and a judge, didn't believe her. They charged and convicted her for aggravated homicide, sentencing her to 30 years in prison.

    But Manuela only served two of those years. In 2010, she died alone in a hospital of Hodgkin's lymphoma, a disease her lawyers say caused her to miscarry.

    More than 140 women have been charged under El Salvador's total ban on abortion since 1998, incarcerated for up to 35 years in some of the world's most notorious prisons...

    ...For more than 20 years, El Salvador — a tiny Central American country struggling with brutal gang violence and a record-high homicide rate — has completely banned abortion, including in situations when the procedure could save the patient's life. The total ban was lobbied for by the Roman Catholic Church, an institution that became particularly powerful in the country after its devastating civil war...’

    Read more here: These women say they had miscarriages. Now they're in jail for abortion.
     
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  2. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Very commendable of Catholics.
     
  3. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

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    God moves in mysterious ways.
     
  4. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    How very typical. The Catholics do not love the poor, they love poverty, and they would anything to preserve it. For obvious reasons.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
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  5. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    So far as I know, there is no statistical evidence that all Catholics think alike on this issue, or that all Catholics approve of imprisoning women for having an abortion, let alone a miscarriage. I would be surprised if any sizeable number favored imprisonment -- even in El Salvador.

    Yet, having said that, I believe this is clearly on the Pope's shoulders. In the end, the buck stops with him. And while it is possible that Church politics are currently tying his hands, he should nevertheless be zealous in pursuing rectification of the mess his bishops have made of things. It is hard to believe he has prioritized this.

    Just my cents. I am almost always wrong about nearly everything.
     
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  6. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    One of the many tragedies here is that in all likelihood, most of these women have led damnably hard lives -- then to get prosecuted on apparently false charges and thrown into to prison to rot, to die...

    And all of it preventable.
     
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  7. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    How do you reconcile Pope Francis' love of poverty with his repeated condemnation of the role the world's elites have had in creating and sustaining artificial poverty -- along with his persistent calls for structural reforms? Do you think the two things are compatible?

    Has his entire professional career -- dating back to even before he became Pope -- been a lie, facade, and scam?
     
    #7 Sunstone, May 29, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  8. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    What has Pope Francis done, part from speaking, calling and making good sounding empty proclaims?
    Nothing.

    He is just PR. At least the previous one was an intellectual, but this one is not even that. We basically moved from Bach to Tango, without any offsetting added value.

    Come back to me when he officially says that birth control is admissible, especially in poor countries. or that condoms are admissible in AIDS infested countries. Or that priests can marry. Or that women can become priests. He is the boss. Should be no problem.

    That would have a much higher impact than "Rich people should give more to the poor", which is a triviality that costs him nothing.

    Ciao

    - viole
     
    #8 viole, May 30, 2020
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
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  9. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Do you consider yourself familiar with this pope and his position on structural poverty?
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    It endangers the lives amd health of women amd falsely imprisons them. This is, as per the norm for the Catholic Church, condemnable.
     
  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    The Catholic Church/Vatican, as an organization, is an evil institution who is guolty of a myriad of crimes. Sure, not all Catholics are alike. But they all belong to a destructive and anti-social organization.
    It's a shame the UN is unable to make the Vatican and it's leaders answer for their crimes.
     
  12. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    This is a discussion thread, rather than a debate thread, so I will not say you are wrong, but I would point out that we have a difference of views here. I myself would not sum up the Catholic Church in such terms. That is, if I were trying to understand the Church in moral terms -- as you appear to be -- I would call them in practice 'a mixed bag'. But I am not prepared in a discussion thread to try to prove myself right and you wrong.


     
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  13. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Disgusting!
     
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  14. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    I didn’t know religious news was non-debatable.
    There should be some sort of indicator when you read these forums on your mobile such as in brackets (discussion only) under the section title.
     
  15. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Good point! Can you see the "Discussion" subtitle to your thread title on your mobile device? I can see it on my laptop.

    Here's the thing -- given this Forum isn't as clearly marked as it should be, if you want this thread to be debate and discussion, I imagine I could insert that into the title. Would you want that?
     
  16. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    No, sorry I hope it’s not staring me in the face. I’m on an old I-phone.

    If you can insert that it is open for debate into the thread title I would be happy for you to do so
     
  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    Im on an S8 active and all I see is religious news.
     
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  18. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I'm on it!
     
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  19. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    Whoot! Done! The West is Wild Again! :D
     
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  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    More lip-service, IMO. Maybe he means what he says, but he certainly isn't using all the power he has to address the issue.

    For instance, in the past in some instances, communion has been refused to elected officials who vote to legalize abortion. The Catholic Church considers injustice to and defrauding of workers to be - along with abortion - a "sin that cries out to Heaven" that warrants an especially severe response.

    So Francis probably could order the denial of communion to people who mistreat poor labourers - or who legalize mistreatment of poor labourers - but so far, he hasn't done this.

    He also has effective control of the assets of the Catholic Church, including the Vatican Bank, which he could use to weild economic influence for policy goals... but he doesn't do this.
     
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