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Featured For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Deeje, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    I somehow got the impression that the subject was the flood of Genesis. My bad.

    So your point was only that a flood occurred in the past? OK, good point. I've seen a few myself, so I'm not totally surprised that floods may have been seen by others before me, but thanks for the heads up.

    Incidentally, a tip: Don't forget all caps, underlining, italicizing, and using a giant font for emphasis in addition to bold and multiple ... exclamation points!!

     
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  2. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    That is a very human viewpoint and not in accord with scripture.
    Why do you think that a powerful being did not just wipe out the infidels and just protect Noah? Why did he need to flood the world and destroy all life except for what was on a vessel?

    To answer that question you have to understand what circumstances led to him to do that. Rebel spirit beings, materialised human form and cohabited with "the daughters of men", whom they found attractive, according to Genesis ch6...."all whom they chose".

    Since spirit beings are A-sexual, this was an unnatural mating that produced freakish hybrid creatures that were gigantic in size and violent in nature.....and obsessed with sex. These were not "sons of Adam" but humans who had no right to exist. In that environment, wickedness escalated to an excessive degree so in order to keep his purpose on track, God had the only righteous family in existence take the necessary steps to save themselves. In doing so they gave us many examples of why it is necessary to put all our faith in God and not in man.

    In doing things the way he did, God showed all of us that sometimes we have to put in extraordinary effort to obey him. Yet God provided the means to carry out all that he asked Noah to do.

    The construction would likely have taken decades, but all Noah had to do was follow God's instructions to the letter.
    On completion, it was God who brought the animals to the ark, meaning that he personally chose the specimens he wanted to form the nucleus of the post-flood world.

    The end result saw a cleansed earth with a new beginning, and God's purpose for the human race re-established. What happened post flood proves that it was only a stop gap measure to prevent wickedness from escalating too quickly. Things are happening now exactly as God said they would, as he brings the object lesson to its ultimate conclusion. But are most humans learning the lesson? Apparently not.

    So at the end of the day, we have to ask...."is anything impossible for God? And is anything backed up by the Creator of the universe too difficult for man?" This is what Noah's story teaches us. Jesus used it as an example of what is to come. Another thorough cleansing of this earth is due, but this time it will not be by water. (Matthew 24:37-39)
     
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  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    No, the models given allow us to calculate how fast the water moved. There was nothing unseemly in my post. Please note that the rate of water entering would have to be orders of magnitude higher to account for a flood that one could not leave behind. If one wants to claim that that occurred then one must explain why the evidence of that massive flow is not observed. Massive amounts of flowing water leaves evidence behind. In my state we have the Channeled Scablands:

    https://parks.state.wa.us/225/Ice-Age-floods-in-Washington

    These events are quite often datable too. The dates of local floods vary, disqualifying them from being a worldwide flood.
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Good grief! :facepalm:
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Really?


    But you, apparently, know best. We are bless having such preeminent expertise at our disposal. Perhaps you would be willing to refute the 2016 study.
     
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  6. ronandcarol

    ronandcarol Member
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    For Christians. Was the flood real or just a myth?
    I believe the flood was as real as the Bible says it was, as real as 600 thousand Israelites walking across the Red Sea on dry ground. And as real as Jesus defeating death on the cross and rising three days later! And for those eyewitnesses that confirm the stories of Jesus and the stories of Moses, Noah and all of the other prophets in the Bible, so that we to can believe today! It just takes faith.
    ronandcarol
     
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    \

    Yes, really. I have done so in the past with the article that you linked.


    What makes you think that they would disagree with me? Don't be misled by such words as "rapidly". One must understand the context that they are used in.


    From the article that you linked:

    "The transgression was fast and took no longer than a couple of decades."

    In other words they claimed that it was even slower than I did when I calculated how fast it advanced using a one year time for transgression. Now you have slowed it to the point that a snail might be able to escape the flood.
     
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  8. Profound Realization

    Profound Realization Active Member

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    To be fair, texts do mention the springs/fountains of the deep opening up/broken up.
     
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  9. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I can identify with that because, as a kid I too accepted the flood story without question, but as I was exposed to science, it made me question a lot of what I was taught...and rightly so.

    I heard all that too, but I realized that the evidence supporting all that supposition was based on human calculations. On further investigation of evolution and geology and archeology, I came to understand that science can never claim to have real facts about any of it unless their evidence is substantiated. Because a lot of it can never be truly substantiated, the next discovery might just overturn everything they were formerly led to believe. I don't trust science on that basis...or should I say I trust science a whole lot less than I trust the Creator. :p
     
    #49 Deeje, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
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  10. idav

    idav Being
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    For over a hundred years nobody has has been able to falsify evolution or produce a valid testable alternative. For obvious reasons, animals popping out of the ground fully formed is not testable, there is plenty
    to look for though. The theory of evolution, like may good science is falsifiable, but like the theory of relativity, further testing merely confirms our theories and understanding of evolution.
     
    #50 idav, Nov 20, 2017
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  11. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    There's no reason that a mythology, such as Noah's Flood can't be useful for teaching, etc. In fact that is what makes a good mythology. They may have been inspired to speak using mythological language for the sake of teaching. I think that is a very good way to understand it, in fact.

    But this is nonsense. All humans interpret everything they read, including scripture. And since when is uniformity in thoughts and ideas a definition of unity? Unity requires differences. Uniformity requires you all think and believe, and interpret exactly 100% the same. It eliminates differences, not unite them. If you don't understand anything else, understand that.

    They don't need to speak 100% in agreement. When it comes to understanding the Bible, there are hundreds of thousands of ways to understand it. That's what makes it so useful.

    If you are expecting a church that has no divisions in thought, you're going to land in a cult.
     
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  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I guess so...if you want them to. There have been many theories proven by science...like germ theory and gravity. We know that both exist beyond a shadow of doubt because we can see what happens under a microscope and what results when we drop something from a great height. These things are testable.

    Evolution OTOH, is not provable by any scientific method that demonstrates beyond question that what science assumes to have taken place in the dim dark past, is actually true. They have a theory and the power of suggestion, and great diagrams, but not much in the way of actual evidence that was not interpreted to fit that theory.

    People have this notion of the Creator as some kind of great wizard in the sky 'poofing' things into existence.
    That is not the way the Bible portrays events. "Creationists" who insist on a literal 7 day creation period have done much to perpetuate that myth.

    Genesis has condensed what is a very long period of time (millions or even billions of years) into a few verses. It wasn't necessary for him to go into detail at that point as it was always his intention for man to discover science for himself. He has a natural curiosity about those things. The creative periods were eons, not just days. Science at least can prove that.

    To Bible believers though, we have reason to doubt what man says when it conflicts with what God says. We believe that there is another power behind the scenes manipulating the thinking of many who in their own hearts want to get rid of God (and all that goes with him) and do as they please. Humans are basically selfish and 'doing their own thing' is all they seem to care about. Hedonism has taken over the western world but sadly I do not see any benefits from it. :(
     
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  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Actually no theory is ever "proven" at least not in a mathematical sense in the world of science. But if you want to claim that the germ theory of disease and the theory of gravity are "proven" then by the same standards so is the theory of evolution.

    Again, that applies to all theories. The fact is that their is only scientific evidence for the theory of evolution and no scientific evidence for creationism. If you do not understand the theory you should be asking questions instead of making such obviously false claims.


    Creationists only have themselves to blame for that. Though how God did it according to their beliefs may be beyond them, finding scientific evidence that supports their beliefs should not be, if they truly believed in what they preach.

    To have scientific evidence one must first have as a bare minimum a testable hypothesis. When creationists form a falsifiable hypothesis then they may be able to begin to claim that they have evidence. Until they do they have nothing.[/quote]
     
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  14. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    There is no reason to assume that it is mythology.....you can think that if you like, but if Jesus and other Bible writers made reference to Noah and the flood, then I have no reason to doubt it. It doesn't alter the lessons of the account.
    If you don't wish to accept it as fact...then I can't see anyone with a big stick forcing you to. [​IMG]

    And yet not all can interpret the Bible the way God wants them to. Nothing new there....look what the Pharisees did to the law. Look what Christendom has done with the relationship of God to his son. :confused:

    Since the existence of a people who all purport to worship the same God. The nation of Israel for example had one set of laws and one set of beliefs that were prescribed by God. Conformity to those laws and beliefs is what united God's nation. It wasn't optional to obey those laws. Penalties applied if you didn't.

    That is not what the Bible teaches. Unity of belief defends the brotherhood from those who wish to impose personal interpretation. Causing division amongst the brethren is something God hates. (Proverbs 6:16; 2 John 10-11) He stresses unity. The devil wants disunity and confusion. [​IMG]

    You see Christendom and think the disagreement is useful? I wonder if God does? :shrug:
    There are going to be a lot of disappointed Christians come the judgment. (Matthew 7:21-23)

    Then Jesus was the leader of a cult....and I would have joined....would you? :)
     
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  15. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    real... and likely had a rudder and somewhat bent not boxy because of the problems with pressure
     
  16. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Screen Shot 2017-11-20 at 6.24.17 PM.png I go with Ark encounter's shape on that
     
  17. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

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    You actually did the math! Funny indeed. :D:D:D

    Isn't exaggeration what makes things seem funny?! As in, "It rained cats and dogs." (I hope not)
     
  18. idav

    idav Being
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    So question, if you don't take the 7 day thing literal doesn't that kind of apply to the flood 40 days and nights are not literal?

    Earth sciences all fly in the face of such a notion, not to mention that the flood story is a portrayal of another older story of Gilgamesh.

    Gilgamesh - Wikipedia
     
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  19. Jesster

    Jesster Friendly skeptic
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    Are you sure?

    [​IMG]

    ;)
     
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  20. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    same ballpark
     
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