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For Christians: The Canaanite Woman

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?
As I understand it... :)

1) Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; -- Attempting to approach Jesus on the basis of the David Covenant which can only be accessed by the Jewish people. (analogy - going to Bank of America asking for your money when you have your account at Chase Bank) - incorrect process.

2) ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’- timing and interpretation -- in today's society we declare that as an insult (not sure it was). It was more of Jesus declaring his priority - which was to the Jews first... and then the gentiles. As a side note: kunarion, meaning “small dog” or “pet dog that does belong to a household.

3) She changes her approach, to that which is the correct venue for accessing the grace and power of God... faith:

Even the dogs (pet dogs) eat the crumbs of the masters table.

Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Interestingly enough, the only two people that Jesus noted that they had "great faith" were both outside of the Mosaic Covenant--Gentiles.

Once she approached the glory of God with the right modus of operandi, she accessed the power of God and her child was healed.
 
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Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?
There are some other positions on it, but one of them is that it has to do with the dispute in Acts 15. The entire gospel of Matthew could be an argument for allowing uncircumcised Christians. This is a question which needs explaining: Why don't Christians today have to circumcise, eat limited foods, wear only one kind of thread, celebrate the Jewish sabbaths etc etc etc? Why? Its an important question, and it would be the kind of question in need of extensive answering not with "Its a miracle" but with arguments. Matthew is full of situations like what you have presented. There's a Canaanite woman, and the question is should she be helped or not. Any Jewish person would say "Well yes, of course she should be helped, and that doesn't mean we're becoming Canaanites by doing so" which Matthew then uses to say "So then how can you keep spiritually poor people away from the rich inheritance we have?" It looks like an argument to reexamine how to treat the uncircumcised.

We know that there was at least one huge dispute about this from Acts. We also (now) know there was a group called the Ebionites who disagreed with Paul about circumcision. We also know that the early catholics were only tolerated in synagogues for the first two centuries. Therefore we know from three different paths that circumcises/uncircumcised is a huge issue for the early churches. It shouldn't surprise anyone to see a story in Matthew about a Canaanite woman, another story about a Samaritan woman, another about the Good Samaritan and on and on. Water is turned to wedding-wine. Its all talking about the same thing. "What if a man was absolutely perfect but was condemned anyway? What does this say about the uncircumcised? Maybe we are condemning them when we could be doing something?" It seems Matthew is an argument about this.
 
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Colt

Well-Known Member
I think this episode was misremembered. Jesus would not refer to the women as a "dog". While it was common for Jews to look down on Gentiles with utter contempt, this seems out of character for Jesus. Maybe one of the apostles said it while Jesus was inside trying to get some rest?
 

Yahcubs777

Active Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?

She did not reject the messages of Jesus His Pre-Eminence like the Jews did. Jesus His Pre-Eminence feeding the multitude with 5 loaves of bread and 2 fishes was revealing a few things. First that HE is the GOD that fed their fathers in the wilderness with manna and quails. Second, that they did not eat all that HE fed them. The loaves of bread and 2 fish like the manna and quails were in the similitudes of the messages of GOD which the people were fed with, and were filled, and even let food fall from their mouths to which Jesus His Pre-Eminence commanded the 12 Apostles to pick up every fragment and they stored 12 baskets full, in the similitudes of the 12 tribes of Israel.

This was an adumbration of the messages that the Jews rejected of Jesus His Pre-Eminence, and it was proven in John 6:66 when the people after being fed walked away while HE was preaching.

So when the woman replied: yes but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the masters table, she proved she had not rejected HIS messages that the jews did. And she called herself a dog because she was not born a Jew biologically, and that is how the Jews seen them.

Yet how do you link that with: give no that which is Holy to dogs.

The lost sheep of Israel is Father Adam and Mother Eve who needed a bail price to free them from prison; from the law of Procreation which held them captives. The Canaanite woman is a child of the kingdom but this was a a proof that GOD was sending children of the kingdom to be born of other nations not just Israel. The same goes with the Soldier, and the Samaritan Woman.

The portion of the messages that the Jews rejected is the Messages of Everlasting life; that you can live forever by eating and drinking HIS messages.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?
I do find that obvious problems exist, but not with scripture, or those passages, but you said this is no debate, so I will just say, the text are keeping in harmony with Jesus methods. Just as the father knows our heart, but gives us opportunity to demonstrate by our actions our hearts desires and motives, Jesus knew the woman's heart, but allowed her to demonstrate it.
Thus he thereafter commended her for her faith.
He does the same today.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I think this episode was misremembered. Jesus would not refer to the women as a "dog". While it was common for Jews to look down on Gentiles with utter contempt, this seems out of character for Jesus. Maybe one of the apostles said it while Jesus was inside trying to get some rest?
Just sharing something we could consider.
wp17 No. 5 p. 9 Did You Know?
Was Jesus’ illustration about “little dogs” meant to be insulting?
On one occasion, when Jesus was outside Israel’s borders in the Roman province of Syria, a Greek woman approached to ask for help. Jesus’ response included an illustration that suggested a comparison between non-Jews and “little dogs.” Under the Mosaic Law, dogs were deemed to be unclean animals. (Leviticus 11:27) But did Jesus mean to insult this Greek woman and other non-Jews?
Not at all. Jesus’ point, as he explained to his disciples, was that his priority at that time was to help the Jews. So he illustrated the point, saying to the Greek woman: “It is not right to take the bread of the children and throw it to the little dogs.” (Matthew 15:21-26; Mark 7:26) Among the Greeks and Romans, the dog was often a beloved pet that lived in its owner’s house and played with the children. So the expression “little dogs” might have called to mind a warm, endearing picture. The Greek woman picked up on Jesus’ words and replied: “Yes, Lord, but really the little dogs do eat of the crumbs falling from the table of their masters.” Jesus commended her faith and healed the woman’s daughter.—Matthew 15:27, 28.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?
Jesus' ministry was to Israel not the gentiles but he made exceptions such as this one because of great faith. This is why he ignored her at first.

Jesus own lineage included more than one Canaanite woman.

Jesus calling her a dog was a test of her faith. This is why he says "for saying that ... the demon has left your daughter". It all hinged on her reply.
 

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Staff member
Premium Member
@Rival Thanks for asking this question on the 'controversial' interaction between Jesus and the Canaanite woman. It's an important passage that raises many questions.

Firstly, there are obvious issues with the passage on a surface reading:

(1) Jesus apparently uses a religious/ethnic slur by comparing, metaphorically, the Canaanite women's people to pet dogs in the context of his parable, where the Israelites are God's favoured "children" and the pagan goyim/Gentiles are akin to household pets. Calling someone a dog was a common insult in both Jewish and Graeco-Roman literature. In the Hebrew Bible, we find a number of instances such as 1 Samuel 17:43: "the Philistine said to David, “Am I a dog, that you come to me with sticks?”".

Typically, kunarios (dogs) referred to wild street scavengers - hence the 'insult' - whereas here, by referring to the master or father of the house's table, the parable implies a domestic setting.

Moreover, the diminutive is literally referring to a little dog - that is a puppy, which is not so insulting as 'scavenger' dog. This does soften the blow, as it gives the word a certain affectionate quality.

However, it is still seemingly condescending given that there is a clear order of preference in Matthew, vis-à-vis the "feeding" and status. Both deserve to be fed but at different times and with different degrees of access to the "food", which @KenS has already addressed and explained brilliantly (so I won't deal with this specific dimension of it) in terms of the two covenants and the response of faith.

The language here is surprising, given that only two chapters earlier, Jesus had healed the Gerasene demoniac - a person in a non-Jewish, pagan region in need of his exorcism. So he has, already, traversed ethnic boundaries without insult or refusal. This means that we either must read the current passage as an aberration from Jesus's earlier and later conduct in relation to Gentiles or consider the language used in a different light.

Even though the passage is not referring to wild dogs but rather a domestic setting, it is still uncomfortable for the reader to think in analogous terms of non-Jews as being akin to household pets who must receive "food" (the spiritual nourishment of the gospel) only after Jews, the rightful children under the Mosaic covenant, are fed first.

(2) The word employed to compare the woman to a household pet, kunaria, is feminine diminutive and could literally be rendered into English as, "little b***hs (female dogs)". One scholar T.A. Burkhill frankly notes: "to call a woman a 'little b***h' is no less abusive than to call her a 'b***h' without qualification". The notion that Jesus - so typically praised for his gender progressivism relative to his time - even parabolically, referred to a woman as being like a little puppy under her master's table, is striking and demands an explanation for its apparent inconsistency with every other incident involving him and a woman.

In exegeting and making sense of this scene, I would consider a few things:

We are given no indications of emotion or body language in the synoptic accounts of this passage. Thus, we have to 'infer' from the Koine Greek itself and the context of the dialogue, what emotions and facial expressions the two parties in the back-and-forth might have used: did Jesus smile as he initiated the parable in response to her request, thus making it a 'playful' overture rather than an insulting one? Was the woman in a state of fear or anxiety, or did she smile back knowingly? We have to infer all this in the absence of being specifically told, however on that score we can make a few deductions.

From the text, it is clear that we are dealing with a 'verbal wordplay' and this should colour our interpretative approach. It is evident that the woman understands it as being so, rather than a dismissal of her petition for aid, by 'giving as good as she got' and engaging in the fictive scenario Jesus presents. She condescends to his parable by adopting the role of the kunaria 'little female puppy/household pet' in her reply and giving him a witty analogy of her own to match his - 'but even the little puppies eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table' i.e. recognizing that Jesus had invited her to see herself as one of these little pups coming to the table to be fed (i.e. receive his healing help).

The fact that we are dealing here with an invitation from Jesus for the woman to engage in wordplay with him - as opposed to insulting her and demurring her request, as the disciples in Matthew demand of him (but Jesus refuses their request to drive her away) - is demonstrated by the fact that the woman responds in kind to Jesus. She shows no sign of feeling rebuffed.

As one scholar notes, if understood in this way, "Jesus would be ironically quoting back to her an insult that her fellow Tyrians slung at the Galileans to whom Jesus ministered. The insult is turned upside down...By this clever manipulation of words Jesus is inviting, even goading, the Syrophoenician woman to enter into wordplay with him. She, a woman of great wit, met his challenge and countered with an equally playful and witty reply, "Yes Sir, it is as you say, yet...even the little dogs under the table eat the children's crumbs". She acknowledges what he said but as he had modelled it, she cleverly manipulated the words in order to get exactly what she wanted" (Women in the Biblical World A Survey of Old and New Testament Perspectives, p.80-81).

What's more, the Canaanite woman outsmarts Jesus with her witty response: "In this confrontation, Jesus is persuaded to heal a non Jewish woman (a “Syrophonician” or a Canaanite woman) who out-duels him in word play" (Oxford Encyclopaedia of Gender Studies, p.520). She is shown as the 'winner' of the witty banter and Jesus specifically notes that it is for her "saying" what she said that he is granting her request, thus putting the focus in the Markan account on her logos witty wording/reason/intellect.

And this is significant:


"The Gentile woman either intrudes on the privacy of Jesus (in Mark) or enters the public domain of men and disturbs them by shouting loudly (in Matthew). Her willingness to transgress social boundaries means that her behavior is not in accordance with the ancient Greco-Roman ideal of emphasized femininity...

Not only the woman ignores the social rules, but Jesus does also by readily entering into a debate with her...Moreover, Jesus acknowledges that the woman’s words persuaded him to change his mind, which led to a changed strategy on Jesus’ part. In Mark, Jesus is willing to change his mind and be influenced by other people, even by a Gentile woman. Jesus does not seem to interpret the woman’s response as a threat to his masculinity.

The woman understands Jesus’ metaphorical teaching better than the disciples and answers with a parable of her own. The woman seems to employ a common ancient proverbial saying.42 It is important to note that the woman does not say “yes” to Jesus.43 Instead, she says, “Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs” (Mark 7:28). In Mark, the woman does not accept Jesus’ saying...Thus in Mark, the woman’s answer challenges Jesus’ authority and therefore also his masculinity.

Although the woman talks about household dogs, they are still not truly members of the household like children are. The difference of status between children and dogs remains, and the woman does not challenge the privileged position of children. Dogs remain under the table...The woman also treats Jesus as a superior by calling him κύριος (Sir/Master). In this way, on one hand the woman preserves Jesus’ honor. Nevertheless, since the woman disagrees with Jesus, I agree with Jim Perkinson’s assertion that “she does (covertly) shame him—into honoring her appeal.”46

The Syrophoenician woman is an exceptional figure because she is the only person in the Synoptic Gospels to best Jesus in a dispute. Jesus acknowledges this: “Because of this word (Διὰ τοῦτον τὸν λόγον), you may go” (Mark 7:29). It is because of her “word” in Mark (λόγος), not because of her faith, that Jesus cures her daughter.

What is even more remarkable is that in Mark’s Gospel, after the meeting with the Syrophoenician woman, Jesus changes his strategy. The woman leads Jesus to expand his mission. In the following episodes, Jesus travels through Gentile lands where he heals and feeds four thousand people (Mark 7:31–8:9).48 Jesus’ mission is now also directed toward the Gentiles. This is the only instance where Jesus is taught by someone—and moreover, that someone is a woman. It seems that the Syrophoenician woman is not a traditional silent and submissive woman
."​

(Susanna Asikainen, Jesus and Other Men: Ideal Masculinities in the Synoptic Gospels [p.114-115])​


As the scholar above explains, Jesus uses his wordplay with the Canaanite woman as a teaching opportunity for his disciples. It is because of her that he 're-orients' his entire strategy as a wandering preacher, thereafter entering Gentile lands and preaching the gospel more systematically in non-Jewish regions as well as Israelite ones.

And this only happens because Jesus engages in a battle of wits - as he does throughout the gospels, outmanoeuvring opponents - yet in this one, exceptional circumstance, the Son of God is actually outwitted in wordplay, and by a pagan, Canaanite woman (whom his disciples in Matthew had demanded him to dismiss/drive away) no less.

To quote another scholar:


"The Syrophoenician woman resists with sass and talkback, "she answered and said to him, "Master, even the household table dogs eat from the crumbs of the children (paidia)" (Mark 7:28)...Her sass is heteroglossia. The woman resists with the only thing she has, her reason (logos)...She engages in subversion and improvisation...In response to the woman's sass, Jesus acknowledges the power of her word (logos) and her reasoning...

The story of the Syrophoenician woman provides an antithesis to the silent, submissive woman who dares not sass or talk back to male authority figures, regardless
."

It's notable that the woman adopts a submissive 'role', by way of her participation in Jesus's playful analogy to puppy-dogs/household pets under the master's table (hence her addressing him in return as "Sir/Master"), yet in so doing subverts and challenges him at the same time through her ingenuous wit, which outwits Jesus's initial remark. And Jesus let's her have the final word (logos) in the game/play.

In this way Jesus, rather than turning away this "shouting" or 'noisy' woman as his disciples requested, draws out the ingenious wit and intellectual fortitude within her and then praises the woman before his disciples as a model of either 'logos' (reason) in Mark or faith (pistis) in Matthew, and an exemplar of the fact that Gentiles too are deserving of receiving his healing benefaction and the message of the gospel. Accordingly, Jesus in Mark changes his entire strategy in his ministry after this encounter with her, by immediately engaging in preaching tours in Gentile areas in addition to the "House of Israel".
 
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Brian2

Veteran Member
This is in Religions Q&A and is only for Christians. This is not a debate thread. I am only looking for answers from Christians. If you wish to debate this, please start another thread. Merci beaucoup.

In Mark 7:24-30 we read:

From there he set out and went away to the region of Tyre. He entered a house and did not want anyone to know he was there. Yet he could not escape notice, but a woman whose little daughter had an unclean spirit immediately heard about him, and she came and bowed down at his feet. Now the woman was a Gentile, of Syrophoenician origin. She begged him to cast the demon out of her daughter. He said to her, ‘Let the children be fed first, for it is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ But she answered him, ‘Sir, even the dogs under the table eat the children’s crumbs.’ Then he said to her, ‘For saying that, you may go—the demon has left your daughter.’ So she went home, found the child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.

And in Matt 15:21-28 we read:

Jesus left that place and went away to the district of Tyre and Sidon. Just then a Canaanite woman from that region came out and started shouting, ‘Have mercy on me, Lord, Son of David; my daughter is tormented by a demon.’ But he did not answer her at all. And his disciples came and urged him, saying, ‘Send her away, for she keeps shouting after us.’ He answered, ‘I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.’ 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, ‘Lord, help me.’ He answered, ‘It is not fair to take the children’s food and throw it to the dogs.’ She said, ‘Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.’ Then Jesus answered her, ‘Woman, great is your faith! Let it be done for you as you wish.’ And her daughter was healed instantly.


The problems here seem obvious. What is the Christian understanding of these passages?

Osalm 22:15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth. You lay me in the dust of death. 16 For dogs surround me; a band of evil men encircles me; they have pierced my hands and feet. 17 I can count all my bones; they stare and gloat over me.…

Calling the gentiles dogs may have been common practice in those days. A Psalm about Jesus and His crucifixion does the same and seems to referring to the Roman soldiers.
It is a shame that we do not get the way things were said. We only get the words and can read it in whatever way we want, depending on our attitude to Jesus maybe.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Calling the gentiles dogs may have been common practice in those days. A Psalm about Jesus and His crucifixion does the same and seems to referring to the Roman soldiers.
It is a shame that we do not get the way things were said. We only get the words and can read it in whatever way we want, depending on our attitude to Jesus maybe.
Good thoughts.

I suspect it had something to do with belittling the armies of the nations and their love of war. We know how other nations behaved from the beginning of recorded History until now, and we have written records from Egypt and steles from around the world. It was the policy of militarized nations, Egypt being the best example, to keep all other groups beaten down with regular pillaging and enslaving. I think calling those enemies 'Puppies' is a way of saying that their warfare is useless in the long run. For reference look at Hannah's Song in 1Samuel which gives the general idea and which is reflected later in various Christian writings. There are numerous Psalms that say "Wait upon the LORD" and "Vengeance is mine, says the LORD," and "The nations are like grass that withers," and "They that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength..." This seems like why the endearing term 'Puppies' is used to describe the militarized nations.

This kind of warlike behavior is also reflected down through History everywhere: Asia, Europe, Africa, most islands, the Commonwealth states and South America all of which have a strong tradition of war, pillaging and taking of slaves. Back then we would all say "That's just the way it is and can never change" and expected to always be at war, but Jewish writings at least after Ezra are set against this belief in war. In them the weapons of human warfare are despised and considered pitifully weak, setting down the principles of a peaceful world when most of the world believed war was the ultimate morality and decider of all things.

[1Sa 2:4-5, 9 NIV]
4 "The bows of the warriors are broken, but those who stumbled are armed with strength. 5 Those who were full hire themselves out for food, but those who were hungry are hungry no more. She who was barren has borne seven children, but she who has had many sons pines away. ... 9 He will guard the feet of his faithful servants, but the wicked will be silenced in the place of darkness. "It is not by strength that one prevails;..."
It is not an insulting term but an inspiring term.
 
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