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Featured For Christians ... a question I've had for a long time

Discussion in 'Religions Q&A' started by Vinayaka, Feb 13, 2021.

  1. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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  2. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Scripture was completed by the very end of the 1st century.
    Scripture was thus established early on the scene as the authoritative Word from God, so the ' church ' merely had to testify to what was already accepted by God at 1st-century's end.
    It is the 'ancient Manuscripts', Not Christendom (so-called Christian but mostly in name only) that supports Bible canon.
    Constantine 'canonized', so to speak, what would be Christendom's own church customs or church traditions.
    Christendom (Not Scripture) teaches her customs or traditions as if Scripture, but is Not really Scripture.
     
  3. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Please post where in the Bible it is written: " Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. " ________________
    I can't find that verse in the Bible, so I am curious as to where I can find it. Please let us know.
    Yes, Jesus is the sole access to God - John 14:6 - Jesus is the only way - John 15:23; Romans 5:8
    Yes, prophecies became fulfilled by means of Jesus - 2 Corinthians 1:20
    There is No salvation in anyone else besides Jesus - Acts of the Apostles 4:12
    We enjoy peace with the God of Jesus through Jesus - Romans 5:1-2

    I find Hebrews 9:14-15;12:24 lets us know Jesus offered himself to his God and that also makes Jesus Mediator to the New Covenant.

    P.S. how did I not understand John 20:28 ? Any comments about John 20:31__________________
     
  4. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Think about this: Adam could remain a perfectly healthy physical person on Earth forever without ever having to die.
    In a nut shell, God's purpose is that Earth be inhabited by people living forever on Earth - Isaiah 45:18
    Although mortal, Adam thus had a perfectly healthy body designed to live forever in perfect health if he obeyed God.
    The resurrected will have the same opportunity that originally was offered to Adam before his downfall.
    Because we are innocent of what Adam did is why God sent Jesus to Earth for us to undo all the damage Satan and Adam caused.

    God did Not abandon his paradisical Garden (of Eden).
    If you were out working in your garden and someone came along and interrupted you, would you say because you were interrupted you would Not return to your garden, or rather simply return once the interruption was over __________
    Satan threw a monkey wrench into God's Garden and once the 'interruption ' is over we can return to the paradisical garden.
     
  5. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    How could Jesus be God - please see John 20:17 - because resurrected Jesus was going to ascend to his God.

    In what way is Jesus the same 'yesterday', 'today' and 'forever' - Hebrews 13:8 ___________
    Pre-human heavenly Jesus was Not physical man but a spirit person in Heaven and now again is spirit - 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
    After Jesus' resurrection to Heaven Jesus appeared before his God according to Hebrews 9:24.
    Jesus is the same: Jesus was sinless yesterday, Jesus is sinless today, and Jesus is sinless forever.
     
  6. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    18 For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord; and there is none else.

    Where does it say inhabited by people living forever on Earth? It says he formed it to be inhabited and it is inhabited by living people. Where does any Bible verse say that people who have died will be raised from the dead and live on Earth forever?
    Please provide evidence for this assertion that Adam's body was designed to live forever in perfect health. If you have no verses that support this assertion I will have to assume it is not in the Bible.
    Please provide evidence for this assertion that the resurrected will have the same opportunity that originally was offered to Adam before his downfall. If you have no verses that support this assertion I will have to assume it is not in the Bible.
     
  7. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    A man has a God. Jesus is still a man. His Father was not always His God. That began when Jesus was in the womb. (Psalm 22:10)
    A sinless man means that Jesus was perfect, He was good, and as we know, only God is good.
    What has 1Thess 4:16 got to do with Jesus being a spirit? Jesus coming from heaven in Rev 1 when every eye will see Him might be showing just the opposite, and that Jesus is still a man with a body,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,even if He can make that body disappear at will.
     
  8. Nivek001

    Nivek001 Member

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    Do you have a problem reading what is posted?

    Also, you complain but you fail to offer any solution? You say I need to fix something but you don’t bother to provide anyway to help?

    It seems like you complain therefore you are.
     
  9. Nivek001

    Nivek001 Member

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    Trailblazer said:
    There is no proof that Jesus was not physically resurrected but there also is no proof that He was, so why should I believe He was?

    There is also no proof that there is no resurrected God who wants us to rely on faith instead of relying on established evidence as well. Why should you conclude that Jesus was not physically resurrected?

    Trailblazer said:
    It is because of my Baha’i beliefs that I know that Jesus was not physically resurrected:

    How does your Baha’i belief bring you actual knowledge Jesus was not physically resurrected?

    Trailblazer posted;
    22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
    Why do you think that Paul was referring to Adam dying in the Garden of Eden? Again, my beliefs regarding the meaning of that verse are explained on this link:

    Because I studied the teachings and like my scriptures invite me to know for myself if what is taught regarding Jesus Christ is true or not by taking a leap of faith and ask my God in prayer if he is really there and if what I was learning is true. I received a deep sense of assurance unlike anything else I have experienced so far. As a result I concluded that the God I prayed to us there and that the teachings regarding his son Jesus Christ is true.

    Trailblazer posted:
    29: EXPLANATION OF VERSE TWENTY-TWO, CHAPTER FIFTEEN, OF THE FIRST EPISTLE OF ST. PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS
    Why do you believe that what happened in the Garden of Eden with Adam resulted in all of us physically dying?

    Again, I took a leap of faith and and asked God if the teachings I learned regarding, that includes what is believed regarding Adam and the Garden of Eden to be true. As a result I received a deep sense of comforting assurance unlike anything I experienced before that it was and is true.

    Trailblazer posted:
    Every human born is subject to death and has been long before Adam and Eve, since some form of humans have existed on earth for 200,000 years. People are born and then they die, because God made our bodies that way, as mortal.
    Read these verses. It was only AFTER God delineated all the punishments for eating the fruit from the tree that God said that Adam would return to dust!
    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
    How could anyone with any logical abilities believe that returning to dust was part of the punishment?!

    I agree that it was after God decreed what was to become of Adam and Eve that he decreed unto dust they shall return.
    17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:17 KJV.
    However, it was forewarned to Adam and Eve that if they do eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would surely die.
    Apparently, that was something that Adam didn’t want, but he also saw that it was necessary to eat if the fruit.
    23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
    24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
    25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
    Genesis 2:24-25 KJV
    Adam could no longer fulfill the commandment of being united with his wife if she left the Garden of Eden. Also, before they ate of that
    fruit to remain with his wife and to bring forth humanity upon the earth.
    They were in a state of innocence like little children in The Garden of Eden. In their state ignorance and innocence they were not able to procreate while in their state in the Garden of Eden as well.

    Trailblazer posted;
    John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    I believe that Jesus’s work regarding his atoning sacrifice was complete then. Where does it say that Jesus completed all of his work and that there would be no more jobs ahead?

    John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

    The hundred-dollar question is what makes Christians believe that Jesus is coming back to this world to do more work, as that is NOT supported by the Bible. Not only did Jesus say He is NOT coming back in the following verses, but there are NO verses that say that Jesus IS coming back

    John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

    Where do you get that if it’s out of sight then it will not happen? People turn a blind eye to things all the time.

    Where does John 17:1 say that once he comes to the Father there would be no other work to do!

    I do not believe Revelation is baseless but I also do not believe it is about Jesus returning. I believe it is about the coming of the Bab and Baha’u’llah, a messianic duo who inaugurated a new religious dispensation:

    The Book of Revelation, Chapter 20: A Baha’i Interpretation
    Trailblazer posted:
    I do not see anything in Luke that addresses heaven and hell. I believe in the Baha’i definition because I am a Baha’i.

    Why are you only looking at Luke in addressing Heaven and Hell? Luke isn’t the only gospel or book of scripture to look at.

    What I believe is based upon the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. What you believe is based upon the Bible. Why would what you believe carry any more validity than what I believe?

    It all boils down to whether Baha’u’llah was who He claimed to be. If He was then certain things follow and it is a complete game changer for humanity even if they don’t believe it. All of the above also applies to me. I did not just believe what I do without investigating it thoroughly.

    How does it all apply to you?

    Trailblazer posted:
    “I do not think that would ever work in reality because humans are all so different and their life situations are also very different, so what worked for you will not necessarily work for someone else. The best way to know if a religion is true is to look at all the supporting evidence.”

    What supporting evidence is that? What evidence also proves there is no God who wants us to rely on faith in that God instead of relying on established evidence for the whole world to see?.
     
  10. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    You ask good questions after all an inquiring mind wants to know.
    To start with I'll go to Isaiah 45:12 because God's purpose for Earth was his crowning creation: man.
    God gifted Earth to humans according to Psalms 115:16
    Adam and Eve and their descendants were to reproduce just until Earth was full or fully populated - Genesis 1:28
    Noah and family were to continue God's populating purpose - Genesis 9:1
    Jesus promised that humble meek people would inherit: 'Earth' at Matthew 5:5
    Jesus was referring back to Psalms 37:9-11 and in verse 29 (Psalms 37:29) righteous people to live forever on Earth.
    The upright are to remain here - Proverbs 2:21-22.

    When we go back to Abraham's day (Genesis 22:5) we read about how confident Abraham was about an earthly resurrection.
    Abraham said the ' boy and I ' will return to you.
    The only way a dead Isaac could return with his father would be through a physical resurrection.
    Notice Genesis 22:11-12 because God's angel came to stop Abraham and Isaac - Hebrews 11:17-19; James 2:21
    It was enough that Abraham and Isaac had confidence in a physical resurrection.
    Remember the promised seed (Messiah) was promised to come only through Isaac, so Isaac would have to be alive.
    Also, please notice that No person mentioned in Hebrews chapter 11 is yet resurrected - Hebrews 11:13; Hebrews 11:39.
    That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the future tense that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

    King David is also still asleep in death - Acts of the Apostles 2:34
    Notice when David is resurrected he will be a Prince on Earth - >Ezekiel 34:23-25; Isaiah 32; Psalms 45:16
    A Prince under Christ Jesus who is King of God's kingdom (thy kingdom come...) the kingdom government of Daniel 2:44 that we ask for to come.

    Finally, didn't Jesus offer everlasting life__________
    Most people think only everlasting life in heaven, but heaven is Not offered to everyone - John 3:13
    None of the people who died before Jesus were offered heaven.
    Heaven is only for people like those of Luke 22:28-30; Daniel 7:18; Revelation 11:15
    Please notice that by the end of Jesus' thousand-year reign over Earth ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth.
    - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
     
  11. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    To me pre-human the Son of God Jesus began in the heavens, and God became his Father here on Earth when the heavenly life of pre-human Son Jesus was transferred from Heaven to Mary on Earth.
    Yes, only God is inherently good, good in the absolute sense. Jesus is good in a relative sense to his God.- Psalms 25:8
    Jesus was teaching us that his God is the ultimate standard of what is good, that is why he was directing attention off of himself.
    When Jesus spoke about God's kingdom he spoke about the good news of God's kingdom - Matthew 24:14. Everlasting good news - Rev.14:6 . So, in the Bible good can stand for excellence, fine, upright for more than just God being good.

    Keep in mind John 14:19 that Jesus said the world would behold (see) him No more.
    Jesus dwells in light that No man can now approach him - 1 Timothy 6:16
    So, No human form again for Jesus.
    1st Thess. 4:16 has a lot to do with resurrected Jesus being a spirit. What angel is Not a spirit. Jesus is the Archangel in verse 16.
    Revelation is written in very-vivid word pictures, 16 visions.
    Every 'eye' seeing Jesus would be with the mind's eye. Opposer's grief perceived through the mind's eye.
    Those opposers are the figurative haughty 'goats' at the soon coming separating time found at Matthew 25:31-33.
    One person could Not be seen in both the northern and southern hemisphere at the same time.
    When an airplane is in the clouds people on the ground can't see it.
    People can see or discern Jesus by events taking place on Earth. Events that include Luke 21:11.
    Those soldiers that pierced Jesus (Rev. 1:7) are long dead. They will Not be here to see Jesus coming ' glory ' time.
     
  12. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    OK.....please forgive me, I thought you knew how the quote system works since you have used it many times. Apparently its multiple quotes you have a problem with.....simply highlight the portion you wish to reply to and click on the "quote" button that appears after you do that.....it will add it to a list which you can then insert and break up your answers so that they are readable.

    You did not say that you were having trouble with the quote system...only that I was complaining about you not doing it.
    If you need help, all you needed to do was ask. Isn't it apparent that your replies to me were trapped in a place where I could not quote them without increasing the work load?

    All the best, but I am not interested in arguing for the sake of it. You go and be happy with what you believe and I'll do the same...OK? If you will never be a JW and I will never be an LDS, then what is the point? We will both let Jesus do his job. No one can tell him what is acceptable and what is not as far as our "Christianity" goes....
     
    #332 Deeje, Feb 19, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  13. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    That’s your choice, but you will have to adjust your standards of evidence if you want evidence. I mean there is evidence but you’d have to be willing to accept the evidence that God has provided because nobody can make an omnipotent God do anything he does not want to do.

    What would be evidence that God exists?
    The claims of the different religions are mutually exclusive because God sends Messengers in every age and they reveal a different message and different social teachings and laws, according to the needs of the times. As such, there is no reason to expect that the claims of the various religions would be the same. However, the spiritual teachings of all the religions are essentially the same even though they are stated differently in different ages order to accommodate the kind of people they were addressed to.

    What my beliefs are based upon is called Progressive Revelation.

     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I agree, the earth was given to humans to live on, while we are living, but not after we have died.
    I agree, we were told to be fruitful and multiply, but that was written over 3400 years ago. Why do you believe that God wants humans to continue multiplying? I mean since Genesis was written we have multiplied and the earth is fully populated so there is no need to add to that population.
    I agree, the meek and upright will inherit the earth, those who are living, generation after generation, but nowhere do any scriptures say that dead people will rise from their graves and live forever on earth.
    No, that is not the only way and it is not a way at all because physical bodies do not rise from the dead. Thus Abraham must have meant he would come again to the lad spirit.
    Please note that the verses say “died in faith” and “a good report through faith”; they do not say anything about a physical resurrection. The verses refer to a spiritual resurrection, resurrected to spiritual life.
    Again, this verse is about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical resurrection.
    This verse does not say that Jesus will be the King of God’s kingdom which shall never be destroyed.
    What does John 3:13 mean? Did no one go to heaven before Jesus?

    In John 3:13 Jesus said, "No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man." Some have understood these words to mean no one went to heaven before Jesus. Is this true?

    A look at the larger discussion of Jesus in this chapter demonstrates this is not true. Jesus was speaking with Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher who had come to Him at night with questions about the kingdom of God. The emphasis was on Jesus having the authority to teach on eternal life because He alone had come down from heaven to earth. The NLT translates the verse, "No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven."

    Verse 17 further illustrates this point. Jesus stated, "For God did not sent his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him." Again, the emphasis is on Jesus coming to earth from heaven.

    Other passages also illustrate the fact that some people went to heaven (or paradise) before Jesus came to earth. For example, in His response to the religious leaders in Mark 12:26-27, Jesus answered, "And as for the dead being raised, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the bush, how God spoke to him, saying, 'I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not God of the dead, but of the living."

    In addition, two men in the Bible were taken up to heaven without dying. Genesis 5:24 marks the event of Enoch entering directly into heaven (also Hebrews 11:5). Second Kings 2:11 records Elijah being taken to heaven by a whirlwind with chariots of fire separating him from Elisha. In Luke 16:19-30, Jesus shares an account of Lazarus in heaven at Abraham's side. This would indicate Abraham being in heaven before Jesus came to earth.

    Hebrews 11 furthers includes a lengthy list of Old Testament saints who followed the Lord by faith. Though not explicitly stated, these individuals were noted as God's people who lived for Him and dwell with Him beyond earthly life.

    Further, to make the claim no one went to heaven before Jesus provides many inconsistencies with other biblical passages that speak of God's people in eternity with Him. It is much more consistent with the context of John 3 as well as the rest of Scripture to understand Jesus referring to Himself as the one who came from heaven, giving Him authority to speak to Nicodemus regarding eternal life.

    What does John 3:13 mean? Did no one go to heaven before Jesus?
    28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
    29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
    30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

    18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    None of these verses say that heaven is only for certain people. I believe that is a misinterpretation.
    24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
    25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
    26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

    8 He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

    “Jesus' thousand-year reign over Earth”
    None of those verses say it will be Jesus who reigns for a thousand years.

    “Earth ' enemy death ' will be No more on Earth.”
    What the verses mean is that there will be no more spiritual death on earth. There will always be physical death because humans have mortal bodies, as God created us to die. If there was no more physical death new people could not be born.
     
  15. Nivek001

    Nivek001 Member

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    Thank you
     
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  16. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    Why would I conclude that Jesus was physically resurrected? There is no reason for me to believe that. Why would I have faith in something I believe is nonsensical and unnecessary for Jesus or God to do? The resurrection of a physical body serves no purpose whatsoever because a body is just a body, it is unimportant. It is only the spirit that matters, the flesh profits nothing. That is what Jesus said:

    John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    I do not need actual knowledge to believe that, I only need common sense. Decomposed physical bodies do not rise from the grave and get recomposed. That contradicts science and Baha’is do not believe what contradicts science. Why do you believe it, just because it is written in the Bible? There are lots of stories in the Bible and all of them are not true.
    I could say the same thing about my Baha’i beliefs and many Baha’is say such things about getting assurance in prayer, so where does that leave us if our beliefs are contradictory?
    Fine, if you believe it came from God, I am not going to argue with you. I prefer to get my assurance from actual scriptures because that is more reliable than my own inner experiences which could be imagined or misconstrued.
    I do not believe that verse means they would surely die physically, I believe it means they would surely die spiritually because they disobeyed God. To attain to spiritual life Adam and Eve needed to eat from the tree of life. Once they sinned, they were banned from the Garden, separated from the tree of life which was an ongoing source of spiritual life.

    Baha’is believe that the tree of life is the Word of God which bestows eternal life. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His Manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits. Eternal life is a quality of life, of being near to God; it is not physical life, but spiritual life. God never created the physical body to live forever. Once the physical body dies, the soul leaves the body and ascends to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the heavenly realm.
    Where does it say that there were any more jobs ahead?

    John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

    John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.


    These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to “bear witness unto the truth about God.” He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”
    The following verses all go together.

    John 17 King James Version (KJV)

    17 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


    Jesus says the hour has come to leave the world because He has finished the work God gave Him to do on earth, which was to glorify God. If He finished the work there is no reason to come back. Moreover, nowhere in the New Testament does Jesus say He is coming back to earth, so there is no reason why Christians should have ever believed that!
    I was not implying that God does not want us to rely upon faith. God does want our faith, but there should be some basis for that faith, as God does not expect or want us to just believe anything, since we could end up with false beliefs.

    The whole world will not recognize the established evidence for Baha’u’llah, and that is not necessary, at least not right away, as God knows that eventually everyone in the world will recognize Baha’u’llah.
     
  17. 37818

    37818 Active Member

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    Galatians 3:17-20.
     
  18. 37818

    37818 Active Member

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    I understand that this is outside your beliefs. So you cannot understand that a body is a body and not a spirit (Luke 24:39).

    1 Corinthians 15:35, "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" What is mistranslated as a "physical body" is a body made alive by blood, Leviticus 17:11, "For the life [the soul] of the flesh is in the blood: . . ." And ". . . he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . ." per Isaiah 53:12. And so Jesus Himself said, "I lay down my life [soul] for the sheep," per John 10:15.

    The Apostle Paul explained to the believers in Rome of in his day, "But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Romans 8:11. So what is translated correctly is the body raised from the dead being a "spiritual body." The body being made alive by God's Spirit and no longer by the blood in the flesh.
    So Paul explained, "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption." Per 1 Corinthians 15:50.
    Jesus' physical body is flesh and bone less the blood, so longer flesh and blood.

    A spiritual body not a spirit.
     
    #338 37818, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
  19. 37818

    37818 Active Member

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    We are told in John 1:1 the Word was both "with the God" and "was God."
    We are instructed it was the Word which changed to become flesh, John 1:14. What changed was not the Word "was God," John 1:10, but how the Word was "with the God" is how He changed, John 1:2-3, John 1:14. John 1:10-11, "He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not." So He could truely say in John 20:17, "I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." He was both God and not God being the one with the God, John 1:2. He changed how He was with God by becoming flesh, John 1:14.
     
  20. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    1 John 5:1 in the Greek Interlinear says that everyone believing that Jesus is the Christ out of God..... everyone loving the one having generated he is loving the one having been generated out of him.
    Please notice: 'out of God' ' generated out of him (God) '
    So, 1st John is saying that everyone who believes Jesus is the 'Christ' ( it does Not say who believes Jesus is God; there is No Scripture says God is the Christ ).
    and everyone who loves the one who caused (generated) to be born loves him (Jesus) who has been born from that one (from God)

    Galatians 3:17-20 is speaking about the promise given to father Abraham at Genesis 22:17-18
    As verse 20 lets us know when only one person is involved there is No Mediator. ( No Jesus at that time but God to Abraham )
    The promise of Genesis 2:17 to Abraham was from God with No go between ( no mediator there )
    The Mosaic Law covenant was added to the Abrahamic covenant. ( Moses was the Mediator - Galatians 3:21-23 )
    The temporary Mosaic Law lead us to Christ - Galatians 3:24; John 1:17
    So, by Christ the Law was subtracted or taken away, but the Abrahamic covenant stands.
    Please see Galatians 3:8-13
     
    #340 URAVIP2ME, Feb 20, 2021
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2021
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