We are in one accord!
Of course, this is my perspective. I may hold on to my perspective (when we disagree on interpretation) but I am always cognizant that no one knows everything and Jesus will set us straight (or we will just know better) in the resurrection.
No one knows everything, is true, but I don't believe the scriptures were recorded to put on a shelf and say, we can't know what its writings reveal. I believe what's recorded for us, at 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 Alll scripture is God breathed, and beneficial for teaching... for setting things straight... So that the man of God may be ... completely equipped for every good work.
So I believe what is writen, is not arbitrary, nor so difficult that it calls for debates that are inconclusive. I believe that the "my interpretation your interpretation" argument is really a Devil inspired design - one of his crafty designs (not directing this at you, but expressing the way I see it).
I see Satan sitting back and saying, "As. My seeds have grown nicely. Job well accomplished."
The way I see it, these scriptures, are not written for nothing. 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4 ; 1 Timothy 4:1, 2
Evidently, the reason for the hundreds of diverse teaching, on very basic - from what I can see - teachings, is not a matter of mistaken ideas. The confusing exists because Satan is a liar - the father of the lie, the Bible says, and he hasn't stopped lying.
In fact he lies even moreso today, and he has more agents to use - Satan himself keeps disguising himself as an angel of light. It is therefore nothing extraordinary if his ministers also keep disguising themselves as ministers of righteousness. But their end will be according to their works. (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15)
Think about it Ken. If Satan has not left the scene, why should we think that we are all on the same ship, traveling in the same direction, to the same destination... Or as some put it, different roads leading to the same destination?
Would that not be the same as saying, Satan isn't very powerful at all. Nor crafty... which is opposite to what Jesus said?
Sorry for that rant , but I think it's important we consider that.
From reading the scriptures, it's evident to me that we can know the things we are discussing here, because they are written.
I agree with Martin Luther, who realized how easy it was for persons to apply a symbolic meaning to anything in scripture. In that way, the scriptures can mean anything one wants it to mean, as Atheists put it.
I believe that while symbolism is used in scripture, there are obvious markers where they do not apply... but who am I...
Like you said, Jesus will sort that out.
The only thing about that is, if Armageddon comes and finds us on the wrong path the resurrection won't be our reward.
That's what I understand from scripture.
Feel free to express what you disagree with, as I am sure there is much.
We (as in the group we belong to), believe that the "dead" that is spoken of here is a spiritual separation from God. When Jesus "wounded for our transgression and bruised from our iniquities" and "bare our sins on the cross" he was separated from God even as Adam was separated when he sinned. He was put to "death in the flesh"
I was asking someone earlier, how they arrive at their conclusions.
Do you think we should just state ideas without any scripture that says what we think Ken?
If we are teaching, which we are to use scripture to do, how can we do so by saying something but having no scripture that agrees?
Let's suppose you were saying what you just said to a group of youth, and they ashed you, "Where in the Bible does it say Christ was separated from God?" What would you say to them?
Remember, most people don't just want to hear, "I said it." or "I am the pastor." or "I believe it."
When Jesus resurrected from the dead, he became "alive in the spirit" and was the "first born from the dead" - death being separated from the Spirit of God. Thus, again, after he was resurrected and rejoined to the glory that he one had with God he became the "firstborn among the dead".
I never read any of that Ken. I would like to see wher you read it though.
As he said "I am the life, the truth" et al, the power within him is now a life-giving spirit in the sense that He how gives life to our spirits when we give our lives to Jesus Christ.
As we stand in the flesh... we are still "born-again" by his life giving spirit. We are those who afterward gave our lives and are in his presence.
This is all what you are saying Ken. We do hear a lot of pastors on radio, television... all preaching, and saying all sorts of things... but what does the Bible actually say?
Not that I don't want to venture as long as we understand that I am not dogmatic about the position and we are just thinking of possibilities. "now we see as in a glass darkly"
All matter has energy. There is a pulsating wave in all objects (God spoke and it was created) - words are wave-lengths as is light.
So all matter has energy.
Not sure where you want to go with this
No Biggy. Nothing important. I was just wondering what you thought. It's not written - No details are given.
When I said "Are the resurrected bodies of humans physically that can manifest spiritual? Definite maybe! " what I mean is that there is a possibility that Jesus does have a physical body, yet spiritual. This is where I said that the higher law of lift can supersede the law of gravity. When Jesus was take to the clouds in front of all the witnesses... the possibility is that he is still physical but has a spiritual capacity that can supersede the natural.
Why do you think that Jesus' body was physical?
Or, on a more specific example, when Jesus said "Whether to forgive sins or say to this man 'take up your bed and walk" and strength came into his legs... the spiritual superseded the natural.
Why do you think so?
In other words... angels are spirits yet can manifest physical bodies (Jacob wrestling - Abraham talking to angels who took out Lot and his immediate family)
Yes. So is there any reason why you don't think that Jesus was raised spirit, as the scriptures say, and manifested different physical bodies... as the scripture show, he appeared in multiple bodies - at least four - on different occasions?
So... regardless... the new bodies we receive IMV will be eternal bodies.
The scriptures does say that those who have the heavenly calling will have spirit bodies that are immortal - eternal - in the heavens. 2 Corinthians 5:1-5 ; 1 Peter 1:3, 4 ; 1 Corinthians 15:53
So enjoyed this... thank you!
Great! I hope we can continue that way.
