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For Atheists: have you done the Beatitudes?

Altfish

Veteran Member
NIV:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Very hard if you think about it, I can't do it.
No, why would I?
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
NIV:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Very hard if you think about it, I can't do it.
What does it even mean to "do it" working within some of these "beatitudes" as a context?

  • Can one do "poor in spirit?" What would this even mean?
  • One can "mourn" - that is something we can do. But we can only do this if we have something to mourn. Something we have lost over which we are mournful. I can't help but feel that this is Jesus prescribing his followers great, shattering losses.
  • How does one "do" meek? Would you say that with those words, Jesus is instructing people to be meek? If they are not meek, is this a strike against them? Can it also be a blessing to be forthright and courageous? Maybe Jesus just didn't say?
  • I would guess I probably "hunger and thirst for righteousness" - I am always trying to work out what is most equitable, fair and just in circumstances I encounter in my life. Justice being a very key item that I yearn for. The fluffy, flowery language of "hunger and thirst for" however, leaves one with very little sense of what this statement actually means. Perhaps I am completely off base to think this applies to me. Do I "hunger?" Do I "thirst?" I don't know.
  • One can show mercy, and be merciful, at least this one is pretty straightforward.
  • What does it mean to be "pure in heart?" I mean, from watching Disney princess movies, I think I might have some idea, but then again, it is a very vague and general sort of idea. I also believe that "pureness" is a definitively subjective descriptor. What one man finds "pure" another might think belongs in the dumpster.
  • One can be a "peacemaker" - attempting to make peace, rather than being combative. I think I live up to this one rather well in a physical sense. Not so much in a verbal sense, however. I can be extremely combative in my choice of words. But I have a hard time accepting that words alone can constitute "violence." And teachers on playgrounds and the laws of the most progressive of our societies and cultures would mostly agree with me. A few exceptions like libel, slander and public broadcasting of hateful messaging - but I truly believe those are only hold-outs because they can result in physical damage - not because the words cause any form of practically recognized "damage" themselves.
  • As to the last point - I simply don't think I can do "persecuted." I refuse to feel "persecution" like others tend to invoke it these days. I believe I'd know I was being persecuted when another party, because they sit in opposition to some part of my ideology, took liberties with making forceful changes to my physical being/situation. Until that point, there is no "persecution" being done. Not a word said, or an insult hurled is "persecution." Unless it results in actual changes to physical conditions (for instance, people start throwing things at you, or run you out of town), and up to that point you haven't really suffered much of anything. So I find that "being persecuted" would end up being a pretty hard thing to just go out and "do." At least, it would be hard if one were being honest about it and sincere. Play-acting and dramatizing is always an easy option for the less steady-witted among us - but I doubt Jesus would have applauded those sorts of efforts.
I've never really found the "beatitudes" to be all that special or profound. Jesus could have just said something like "Everyone just present themselves as sad, hurt, subdued and weak toward one another, and watch your behavior and you will have my approval." Though I doubt this would have gone over as well as the poetic, flowery version he went with.
 
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ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
How could you have done all of them?

8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.

But even if atheists have not done those two, they can still be pure in heart and they can still be peacemakers,
you don't need a God belief for that.


You dont need god belief for any of them, just delete the heaven and other mythical stuff.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There're various ways of putting this.

A stopped clock is correct twice a day.

But the real point is that just because someone in a primitive, religious, culture phrased things in a primitive religious way doesn't make them wrong or irrelevant. Take out the religious parts, and the Beatitudes remain a good moral basis.
Tom

You can't take out the religious points. The beautitides also have guidence about god; that's the context. They all work together. Picking and choosing and throwing away the context may be fine for some but when the Bible says love your neighbor, it is in reflection of loving god not a general statement of love.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Sure you can. I did it.
I looked at it as a primitive bit of literature. Kept the good, ignored the rest. I treat all Scripture, and other literature, that way. It's easy.
Tom

Why keep it at all?

I'm sure there are literature to follow without scrutinizing it at the same time?

Kind of like eating the icing and not the cake.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Why keep it at all?

I'm sure there are literature to follow without scrutinizing it at the same time?

Kind of like eating the icing and not the cake.
No, it's like recognizing that ancient people weren't stupid. They had insights into the human situation. And the best of their best survived the centuries. Like the Beatitudes.

Doesn't mean the whole thing had to be literally true, or even an actual quote from Jesus.
It's like eating a balanced diet, recognizing that dessert is only a small and nutritionally insignificant part of it. It might make you feel better to believe that God Himself preached this, but it's not important. The characteristics described will serve you well, in this temporal life, whether you find the Legend of the Christ believable or not.
Tom
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No, it's like recognizing that ancient people weren't stupid. They had insights into the human situation. And the best of their best survived the centuries. Like the Beatitudes.

Doesn't mean the whole thing had to be literally true, or even an actual quote from Jesus.
It's like eating a balanced diet, recognizing that dessert is only a small and nutritionally insignificant part of it. It might make you feel better to believe that God Himself preached this, but it's not important. The characteristics described will serve you well, in this temporal life, whether you find the Legend of the Christ believable or not.
Tom

Shrugs. It sounds like stealing, to tell you honestly. Fluff without the foundations to which it is shaped.

I assume the way you're seeing it is from your christian background? (Kinda hard to part with some things over others?)

I like how @icehorse put it:

Personally, I feel that fear of hell is a poor motivator. I prefer people whose morals come from their own innate sense of the golden rule, not from fear of punishment.

Wouldn't it be simple to gain morals from your innate sense of a golden rule than someone else's book (no matter how beautiful it looks)?
 

cataway

Well-Known Member
NIV:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Very hard if you think about it, I can't do it.
perhaps some don't understand that some of theses verse's apply to one group and the other verse's apply to a different group of people . some to live on earth some to enter heaven and service the kingdom
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
This thread really, really tempts me to make a thread titled: "Atheists/Theists - Have you Invoked the Quarters?"

Why is there this bizarre expectation that outsiders to a tradition do anything related to that tradition? Of course you haven't invoked the quarters. Why would I ask that? Most of you probably don't have any idea what I'm even talking about... o_O
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
This thread really, really tempts me to make a thread titled: "Atheists/Theists - Have you Invoked the Quarters?"

Why is there this bizarre expectation that outsiders to a tradition do anything related to that tradition? Of course you haven't invoked the quarters. Why would I ask that? Most of you probably don't have any idea what I'm even talking about... o_O

We can use Wikipedia.... ;)
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
NIV:

The Beatitudes

He said:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called children of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Very hard if you think about it, I can't do it.
You can't "do it" because the beatitudes are not a thing anyone does. It's a bunch of platitudes that have nothing to say about the way the world we live in actually works. A bunch of promises that, in reality, are never delivered -- unless, of course, you wait to die. And then, of course, all you can do is make a presumption about what will happen when you're dead, but which you can never show to be real.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Pretty much, yeah.
They're ancient and primitive.

OK, a huge dose of salt. Not just a grain. But an essence of solid moral behavior is in there, if you can get past the primitive way it was espoused.
Tom

Do you need the bible to gain moral knowledge and behavior?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Seriously?
I see some good in Christian Scripture and you refer to it as stealing?

Thanks, but no thanks. I'm not changing my opinion about the Beatitudes, but individuals I am.
Tom

Who said you have to change your opinion (and me mine)? It's just discussion.

Of course you can find inspiration in any book. Just the manner in which you see and scrutinize the book and its history makes me wonder why and how you see any use in it without its context.

I mean, christians do it but it's "their" book. They can do whatever they want. But what you're doing is like me taking some Hindu, some Pagan, and some Christian traditions and thoughts, throwing it together, And Then telling each of them how old and primitive their religions are. Since I don't believe that, I'm at wonder how you and many people do. (De ja vu)
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
As an atheist you don't need all that blessing and mythical stuff, simply being a good, compassionate human being works, in my view, much better

I may not be a true atheist but I agree. We are evolutionary designed to be social which requires some meekness to avoid conflict, empathetic to feel others pain (mirror neurons and a healthy Insula) which helps us be merciful, respect for what is sociably right for healthy relations. Not sure why we have to be poor of spirit though. The rest as you say is just myth.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
This thread really, really tempts me to make a thread titled: "Atheists/Theists - Have you Invoked the Quarters?"

Why is there this bizarre expectation that outsiders to a tradition do anything related to that tradition? Of course you haven't invoked the quarters. Why would I ask that? Most of you probably don't have any idea what I'm even talking about... o_O

I have a rough idea and can safely say...

1) I agree with your point and;
2) I've not invoked the quarters.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
I may not be a true atheist but I agree. We are evolutionary designed to be social which requires some meekness to avoid conflict, empathetic to feel others pain (mirror neurons and a healthy Insula) which helps us be merciful, respect for what is sociably right for healthy relations. Not sure why we have to be poor of spirit though. The rest as you say is just myth.

'True' atheist? Membership is not too strict, mate. They let me in, after all.
 
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