Foot in Mouth

[tomspug]

It was bound to happen eventually. The Democrats, through the efforts mainly of Kerry in 2004, followed quickly by Dean, Reid and Pelosi have said practically anything and everything to bring down the Republican majority. Not surprisingly, they are starting to look more and more like hypocrites as they, now in the majority, find themselves either doing the things they criticized as bad behavior or finding that practices that apparently made America "less safe" made it more safe.

Ironically, the biggest issue is the treatment of terror suspects. Obama's complete moral opposition to torture got a lot of smiles from the good hearts of Americans and Europeans, but it would have been much harder to persuade the American people if he had not hammered over and over again that it provided no legitimate information.

NYT: Harsh techniques worked, intel chief says - White House- msnbc.com

The moral issue still remains, but isn't the decision a little more challenging when you are choosing to stop a practice that can save the lives of thousands?

Secondly, the other major issue is wire-tapping. An issue of even more hypocrisy when there are reports that the NSA is now using the technique MORE THAN EVER.

NSA Exceeds Legal Limits In Eavesdropping Program - WSJ.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/16/us/16nsa.html?_r=1

For those of us that voted for Obama riding on a cloud of optimism, I hope this brings those people down to earth. Politics doesn't change, and the word "hypocrisy" is practically synonymous with it. People will do and say ANYTHING to regain power, and you should only use realistic goals to determine who should best lead the country. I still think Obama was the better choice, but it should be at least more clear now that the formula Democrats > Republicans is stupid, as is the reverse.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I still think Obama was the better choice, but it should be at least more clear now that the formula Democrats > Republicans is stupid, as is the reverse.

Yeah baby! Independants rule! Down with the two party system!

 

[Comicaze247]

As stated in South Park, it's always going to be between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.

 

[Willamena]

It was bound to happen eventually.... finding that practices that apparently made America "less safe" made it more safe.

Ironically, the biggest issue is the treatment of terror suspects. Obama's complete moral opposition to torture got a lot of smiles from the good hearts of Americans and Europeans, but it would have been much harder to persuade the American people if he had not hammered over and over again that it provided no legitimate information.

NYT: Harsh techniques worked, intel chief says - White House- msnbc.com

This gloating might be more significant if the one thing (Obama's claims that torture techniques "don't work") had anything at all to do with the other (useful information garnered during torture).

The moral issue still remains, but isn't the decision a little more challenging when you are choosing to stop a practice that can save the lives of thousands?

Not if it preserves the humanity of one.

 

[doppelganger]

I don't think it's a moral question, really. If we don't want to be tortured don't torture (Golden Rule and all). But I will say that most Democratic politicians are as awful as any Republicans. They are, after all, politicians. I find more exceptions among the ranks of the Ds than the Rs, but they are both pretty awful pretty much across the board.

The two-party system is anathema to a real democratic republic.

 

[Willamena]

I'm torn between saying it and not saying it. But it's funny...

They are, after all, politicians.

And this from a lawyer.

 

[doppelganger]

I'm torn between saying it and not saying it. But it's funny...


And this from a lawyer.

But I'm a nice lawyer . . .

 

[The Voice of Reason]

But I'm a nice lawyer . . .

Dopp will be the first to tell you that, it's the 99% of lawyers that give the rest of 'em a bad name.

 

[JMorris]

the thing the 2 parties are best at are manufacturing differences between them, their 2 sides of the same coin, and when it comes to maintaining power, and maintaining an illusion of democracy, they work quite well together. the only reason (in my opinion) the REAL left keeps supporting democrats is because we're afraid of the far right republicans, and they made sure REAL left wing parties and canidates dont stand a chance. republicans need the christian right because if they didnt have them, who would be republican? real fiscal conservatives will find what they want in the libertarian party. and you cant be fiscal responsibility when your trying to leglislate morality, fighting marijauna, and attacking 3rd world countries for no good reason other than to use up stockpiles of military hardware, so they can then buy MORE!

 

[themadhair]

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

^ Nuff said.

Ironically, the biggest issue is the treatment of terror suspects. Obama's complete moral opposition to torture got a lot of smiles from the good hearts of Americans and Europeans, but it would have been much harder to persuade the American people if he had not hammered over and over again that it provided no legitimate information.

NYT: Harsh techniques worked, intel chief says - White House- msnbc.com

I don’t mean to be disrespectful – but did you actually read the article? If you had you might have noticed this comment:

"The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."