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Follow The Lamb

Discussion in 'Christianity DIR' started by GoldenThread, Jan 21, 2019.

  1. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yup. A wallop actually. [​IMG]

    What you are doing there GT, is called assuming... all caps. :)
    From my understand though, Jesus obviously does not condone "living in luxury", but persons can go to extremes, in how they take Jesus' sayings.

    So why do you have a roof over your head... or am I assuming?
     
  2. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Jesus gives us ways to understand people's hearts. Jesus himself was able to do this because he was the Son of God. Remember, Jesus calls us to be like Him.

    Luke 6:45, "A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh." When we listen closely to the words people choose to use, it gives us a window to their heart.

    Matthew 6:21, "
    Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:

    20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:


    21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

    Here is another example of knowing where someone's heart is. Where do there wealth/materials go? Does our wealth go towards God's work, or to themselves? Interesting thought for you to ponder.

    Yes, I have a roof over my head. I also slept on the streets, in a make shift couch, in a car, in a RV. The point is: It doesn't matter where you sleep at night, as long as you are doing God's will, then it is his job to provide for you. Whatever he provides for me each day, I am content with. How do I pay for an apartment I hear you thinking?? Easy. God provides. The way he chooses to provide varies, but the bottom line is I know I will have what I need if I get busy working for Him. Similar to a boss writing you a paycheck after your job. You know if you put in 'x' amount of house you will receive money to buy your food, clothes, etc. Only difference is my boss is 'God' and he gives abundantly out of His treasures in heaven!

    Did I have to forsake all my things first? Yes I did. I had to start all over again. Kinda like a baby being born into this world. With nothing.Hmmm.. Maybe this is why Jesus said we must become 'born again'... Food for thought.

    God is faithful and true, after, which is the key for you to understand, you forsake everything, God steps in and starts providing exactly what you need. Nothing less, nothing more.

    Do I feel bad that I live in a house (apartment actually)? Nope. Am I willing to forsake it if God wants me to? Yup (I've already done that with two other houses before this one). Am I willing to live on the streets with nothing but my Bible and the clothes on my back? Yup (Done that many times already).

    Are you starting to get the picture? Once we step out and let God truly take over our lives, then he provides for us in miraculous ways. Should I feel bad for God rewarding me for my obedience? Nope. Nor is it wrong to use whatever God has given you, again after forsaking all, for the Lord's work.

    I want to make it clear, if I haven't already, if one hasn't forsaken all and stopped working for money as I did to follow Jesus' commands, then they are not under the same category as I am. Why not? Because they haven't done the requirements that Jesus set in order for us to get His blessings (Luke 14:33 & Matthew 6:24). Am I special? Nope. I am only one Christian out of all the Christians that has done the same things before me (watch the Brother son sister moon (have you already) and you will see the correlation).

    According to Jesus, doing these two things are the first step in becoming a Christian. If it hasn't been done, then Jesus himself questions why people call Him Lord, yet don't do the things which he says: Luke 6:46-49,"
    And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

    47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

    48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

    49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great."
    Notice here that the rock we must build our house (faith) upon are Jesus and His words. If we don't build our faith on Jesus. we will collapse, and how GREAT is the collapse of that house.

    In peace
     
  3. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    May I ask just two questions.
    Has God asked you to give up your house?
    How do you go about working for God?
     
  4. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    You are implying that Jesus recommended austerity....i.e. having no material possessions. I am having difficulty understanding what that means in real terms in today's world. A Christian in one part of the earth may see Jesus' words in a completely different way to how Christians in a more affluent nation might interpret them. Someone in the slums of Bangladesh or India might have to add something to their life to come up to what Jesus recommended, whereas someone in an affluent country might have to downsize quite a bit.

    You've had an RV and now you have an apartment....but why did you need them if you sacrificed everything and then Jesus gave it back to you? That makes no sense in my estimations. No one can live in today's world without money and being homeless and without the necessities of life by choice is not even close to what Jesus recommended. His warning was not to get too attached to our material things, so that losing them will not make our world fall apart. When Paul recommended "sustenance and covering" he was speaking about what is necessary to live....enough food, clothing and shelter.....not about the trappings that make life "cushy".

    There is a "great tribulation" coming in which we will likely have to walk away from our possessions just as the first Christians did in Jerusalem. (Matthew 24:21) The more we have, the greater the difficulty in leaving them. Downsizing is a great idea....but not to the point of abject poverty. "Give me neither poverty nor riches" is still a good place to be....neither extreme is good. Solomon wrote that under inspiration.

    Jesus did not tell everyone that they had to give up their businesses and livelihoods that fed and clothed their families, and put a roof over their heads. He was realistic....but I do not see your position as realistic at all.

    Are you married? Do you have children? Who would wish poverty on them? God?...Jesus? How can austerity make a person a better Christian than one who is serving their God, as well as providing for their family. (1 Timothy 5:8) You think we can't do both? Those in my brotherhood do. Those with more, give more to offset the deficiency of one another. So many are undergoing hardships in severe weather events right now all over the world, so we donate to our worldwide fund to help our brothers no matter where they live.
    We do not get paid to do God's work. We are all willing volunteers. Our contributions are also voluntary.

    As Paul said...."So now, also complete what you started to do, so that your readiness to act may be completed according to the means you have available. 12 For if the readiness is there first, it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have. 13 For I do not want to make it easy for others, but difficult for you; 14 but that by means of an equalizing, your surplus at the present time might offset their need, so that their surplus might also offset your deficiency, that there may be an equalizing. 15 Just as it is written: “The person with much did not have too much, and the person with little did not have too little.”" (2 Corinthians 8:11-15)
    Paul was referring to the gathering of the manna. There was always enough, not too much, not too little. (Exodus 16:18) Whatever Christians had, they shared. How could that happen if no one has anything? :shrug:

    Your interpretation negates what is written in equally inspired scripture IMO. What is the benefit of abject poverty? Would you listen to a poor man in rags at your door talking about God? What credibility would there be in what he said if the person is too busy looking at his pathetic personal presentation? Even in nations where poverty exists, my brothers make sure that they are well dressed when they represent their God....even in borrowed or shared clothing.

    Are you alone in your ministry? Do you have a brotherhood with whom you meet for worship and share scriptural truths, sing praises and offer prayer collectively? What is involved in your ministry and is it shared by others? Jesus never sent his disciples out alone. (Luke 10:1) They went "house to house" searching for those who were 'rightly disposed' to accept the message. (Acts of the Apostles 5:42; Acts of the apostles 20:20; Matthew 10:11-15) Our ministry is organized so that, if possible, no one is missed. What do you do?
     
  5. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    Nothing in the Bible negates the words of another. If they do, then we are interpreting the words incorrectly.

    For example @nPeace quoted the scripture in Mark 10:25-30......
    "It is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye than for a rich man to enter into the Kingdom of God.” 26 They became still more astounded and said to him: “Who possibly can be saved?” 27 Looking straight at them, Jesus said: “With men it is impossible but not so with God, for all things are possible with God.” 28 Peter began to say to him: “Look! We have left all things and followed you.” 29 Jesus said: “Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news 30 who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and fields, with persecutions—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life."

    What you are suggesting is that in voluntarily giving up all we have, Jesus will then give us back more....? Why would he need to do that for every Christian? He was clearly talking about those who have lost their material possessions due to them being persecuted as Christians. No one had to worry about losing their material things because Jesus would reward those who had lost them with something better. Remember Jesus told us to hate our family members too...it is a balanced view of these things that Jesus was highlighting. Do you think he has nothing better to do than provide 'stuff' for those who simply discarded what they had? Does it make sense to make yourself poor so that someone else might also have to discard what you gave them? I'm trying to imagine the scenario.....:shrug:

    No one can change your position but you. All I am doing is trying to add some balance to your interpretation of scripture. As I said....either the whole Bible is God's word or none of it is. We are not free to pick and choose what we will accept and what we will ignore as less important. Its all important, and it all fits if we have the truth. The truth does not make you choose one scripture in favor of another.

    From what you post it seems as if you do. Your interpretation of Jesus' words fights with what other Bible writers have said.....but my study shows me that God inspired all of it....and Jesus said nothing that fights with any of it. I find your views rather extreme actually...but I do not doubt your sincerity for a moment.

    If you imply that parts of the Bible are not really true, then how is your house built on the rock?

    I do not doubt your love for God and his Christ.....but if you are just another lone sheep with a single voice, who is directed by Jesus personally......then you are in good company....there are many here and elsewhere who see themselves the same way.
    Who do we believe when you all hold different beliefs? How is Jesus talking to all of you when your views conflict? Do you see the dilemma? You can each be personally convicted.....but are you just convicting yourselves? Jesus can't possibly be speaking to all of you individually or else you would have joined forces by now. You would be congregations.....not lone rangers.

    I have a brotherhood eight and a half million strong who all believe the same things that I do, and who all share in the work that Jesus commanded....they have one message for all in every language. My brothers and sisters all take care of their families and all look forward to the new world to come where they will continue to worship their God Jehovah in unity. We already know that "few" are going to be saved from this world, and I have no doubt that "label wearers" will not fare well....those who claim to belong to my own brotherhood included. Those who appeal to Jesus at the judgment are apparently sincere in offering their excuses.....but it falls on deaf ears. If they are sincere in their efforts, then why does Jesus reject them as those he "never knew"?

    We have to work hard to prove ourselves worthy of salvation. It is a free gift, but not one we can take for granted. There are qualifications. The "faithful and discreet slave" exists because Jesus appointed 'him'......but in framing his identity in a question, it is apparent that it will not be easy to identify him among all those others claiming to be that channel through whom Jesus 'feeds' his sheep. (Matthew 24:45)

    We have to look at all the things that identify 'him'......number one is that he is not alone, because he is responsible for feeding Jesus' entire household. Secondly, he is teaching his fellow slaves what is appropriate behavior for Christians. That means no political involvement, no military training, no weapons designed to kill humans, no involvement in wars or bloodshed, no justification for immorality, dishonesty, or ignoring the plight of the poor among us. And they must be promoting the all important preaching work that has to be accomplished before the end of the present system. (Matthew 24:14)
    All must be in agreement. (1 Corinthians 1:10)

    I can see that my own brotherhood is living up to all of those things.....what about yours? Can you point to anyone and say "those are my brothers and we are all doing what Jesus commanded"?

    We each have to answer those questions for ourselves.
     
  6. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    My current one, or the one I lived in when I initially forsook all?

    Working for God can happen in many ways. Another way to phrase your question: How do I go about working for Love. God is love, isn't he?

    The basic gist is you wake up and ask God what He wants me to do today. Whatever he tells me to do, then I do it. Sometimes he doesn't tell me to do anything specific, so I get to choose what type of preaching I would like to do. Working for God is spreading Jesus' message. Sometimes I make tracts that have the gospel on them and hand them out, or I just talk with someone, or find someone that needs help and offer "free work" (the name implies what I do).

    The idea is to live as if we are in heaven. Of course everybody would know about God in heaven, so the great commission would be fulfilled, but what else would we be doing in heaven? Of course worshipping God, but what about all the people. How will we get along? Will all of our problems and differences suddenly disappear once we are in heaven? Nope. God wants us to start building His Kingdom here on Earth, so we can prepare for our Husband's (Jesus) return..

    The best way to know how to work for God is to start doing it yourself. Remember, we must be serving God only. We can't cheat and give God 10,20,50, or 99 percent. God wants it all. Either 100% or 0%. No lukewarmness in God's church.

    In peace
     
  7. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    I am implying that Jesus wants us to give it all up. Will we stay without possessions from that point? I don't think so, however, what we have is not ours, rather it is God's so he can take or give as he pleases. We have to be willing to forsake anything if God wants us to.

    The problem with people from different part of the world seeing Jesus' teachings as different, is why their are many denominations. If someone has less, then they get what they need. If someone has more, then they give to those that have less. This way, nobody that is part of the Christian fellowship has more than anyone else. What you are saying is true, i.e., if someone has less, they will receive more, and if someone has more, then they will have less. All of this is by comparison to how they lived in the old life. Now that they are born again into Christ Kingdom, everybody is equal. This model was set up by Jesus, and we read the 1st century Christians following the same pattern by giving up everything FIRST, then all things were distributed to everyone as they had need. They don't give up 10,20,50, or 99. Jesus says all, therefore we give up all. After we do this, rich or poor, then we are a part of God's kingdom and He will provide for each one according to their needs.

    Jesus seemed to think I needed them. Hence he gave these things back to me. I used the RV to travel the US preaching the gospel. Now I am doing online ministry in a 3rd world country, so an apartment is the more practical way for me to be effective in doing the type of ministry that God is currently calling me to do. If I need to change my ministry, then my living conditions will change to conform to the new mission (all geared towards fulfilling the great commission). I am not sure why this is difficult to understand? Maybe you can explain further what is difficult?

    The part I put in bold is a LIE. Please don't fall for it! I know it seems impossible, but with God ALL things are possible. He can provide for you without the paper we call money. He's been doing this for almost 2 years for me, and he can do it for anybody else that wants to put their trust in Him, and Him alone.

    You said," Being homeless is not what Jesus recommended."

    Jesus says in Luke 9:58, "Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the son of man has no where to lay His head."

    This was in response to someone asking to follow him. Obviously Jesus knew he wouldn't follow Him since Jesus and His disciples were homeless. The man presumably didn't follow him. Will you still follow Jesus if you had to be homeless? Food for thought.

    You said, "without the necessities of life by choice is not what Jesus recommended."

    BACK TO ME: I never said we won't live with the necessities of life. Where did I say this? Maybe the idea comes from where I said we should stop working for money? Did this make you think that we won't have the necessities of life like food and clothing (Paul never says housing is a necessity, BTW) if we stop slaving for money? If so, then maybe you should re-read Matthew 6:25-33, since this answers your worry about having the necessities in life if we stop working for money and just focus on working for God instead. Jesus is real, sister. He can take care of you. Just give him a chance.

    It is interesting that you bring up prophect in connection to this teaching. This is interesting because you make it seem like during the Great tribulation that people will just freely start walking away from their things. What makes you think people (like yourself) will do this then, if they are not willing to do it now.

    Careful that you elevate Solomon's words above Jesus'. On judgment day we won't be judged by putting our faith in Solomon's words, rather we are judged by Jesus' words (John 12:48). I find it hard to believe that on judgment day God will accept the excuse, "I didn't obey your son's teaching because I listened to Solomon's wisdom instead. I pray God shows mercy, but this is what I can see happening if you willfully made this choice.

    God may say, "Haven't you read what my Son Jesus said about Solomon and His wisdom?

    "And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

    29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these."
    Solomon's glory is compared to a flower! How much more should you have listened to my son Jesus?

    Hear another one: The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here."
    My son is greater than Solomon and His wisdom. Why are you putting your faith in Solomon and not my Son Jesus??
    I don't like the outcome of that discussion on your behalf...
     
  8. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Yes He did. He said to do just that. Do you believe this scripture because it clearly explains: "No man can serve two masters (only one master): for either he will hate the one, and love the other (which do you love?); or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other (which do you hold to). Ye cannot serve God and mammon."
    Sounds like an ultimatum to me: Either choose God or money (job).

    If you believe that the creator of the universe can't provide for you and your family without a paid job, then that is your choice. My creator of the universe doesn't need me slaving at a job in order for me to get what I need to survive. My creator promises that if I stop using my time serving money, and start using my time serving Him, then all these things like food, clothing, housing, etc. will be taken care of. All we need to do is have faith. That's right! Faith! If we have faith in God, why is there so much doubt that he can provide for us if we stop working for money? Either God isn't real and can't do it, or God is real and can do it. Our decision is made clear by our actions that follow.

    The part in bold highlights the lack of faith you have in God. It seems that your mind is fixated on the idea that if I don't have a job, then my family won't be provided for. I can see how this makes sense in a worldly mindset (not easy having to take your own medicine now, is it (Matthew 7:2)). Our mindset shouldn't be worried on the worries of the world. The gentiles worry about how they are going to provide for their family Matthew 6:31-33,"
    Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

    32 (Bor after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. ( do you believe your heavenly father knows you need these things?)
    But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. (Such a great promise isn't it?)

    Your brotherhood serves both God and Mammon? Sorry, that is not a brotherhood that is founded on Jesus.

    You quoted 1 Timothy 5:8 which says, "If you don't provide for your own household, then you are worse than an infidel." Does he say we should therefore disobey Jesus and start working for money? Not even close! If Paul ever says anything that contradicts Jesus (The Word of God) then let him be accursed! (Galatians 1:8)

    Who is the head of our house? Isn't it Jesus? If he is our head, then it is HIS job to provide for us. All we have to do is be submissive wives and obey our husbands orders (whether male or female, Jesus is our husband). See how this interpretation lines up with what Jesus says? Yours completely contradicts Jesus' words, but people prefer it because it is "cushy".

    Again, the point keeps going 'over your head'. Once we forsake all, God provides for us a hundredth fold. Jesus promises this (Mark 10:30). We will have more to give after we forsake everything and start working for God, then we will slaving at a job, while those in need get the leftovers.

    If we forsake all and God doesn't provide for us a hundredth fold, then he is a liar. Of course, we both know that is not true ! (;

    Oooooh. This part in bold speaks volumes. Check your spirit on this. Since you believe that if someone is dressed in rags, then they are 'pathetic', shows how you view the poor.

    Again, if God wants us to be in rags, then so be it. If God wants us to be in suits and ties, then so be it. Whatever he wants is fine by me. However, this is what Jesus called straining at a "gnat". Do you think God really cares if we don't dress respectable, if that means disobeying His son's teaching about not working for money? If so, then you are swallowing the camel sister.

    Please understand I am not here to point to any organization. If your goal is to defend an organization, then we are talking on two different levels. My main goal is to point you to Jesus and His teachings. The teachings that will give us life and eternity if we obey them. No organization will save us. When the veil in the Jewish temple tore in two after Jesus' death, God put an end to organized religion. Why? Because he is now looking at the sincerity of each individual. Being in a particular organization won't save you, nor will being out of an organization will save you. The only thing that will save you is Jesus. Remember, if we listen to the Son, then we listen to the Father also.
    I believe God will put together a visible organization during the great tribulation, but until then, God is looking at the individual.

    I find it strange that you asked me the same question. I already answered it in my last post, didn't I? Correct me if I didn't but I believe I did share how we follow the pattern of the first century Christians?

    BTW, your attitude in your response is progressively getting "nasty" as you write. Please check your spirit as you respond to me further. Thanks.
     
  9. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Agreed. People use scripture to negate scripture. If anything seems to negate, then it is due to us not lining our interpretation with Jesus (the cornerstone).

    Now hold on here. When Jesus said this he was talking to Peter and his 12 disciples... Where are you getting this idea that he is talking about those that had to leave their possessions (because they were being persecuted as Christians)? I think you are trying to hard to hold to this idea that Jesus only meant for us to give up everything during time of persecution, in order to justify why YOU are not doing it. Nothing in the above passage does Jesus say he is only talking to those that left all because of persecution.

    I don't think you are trying to imagine the scenario. If so, then look no further than Acts 2 and 4 when the early Church gave up everything. They didn't just "throw it away" as you are saying. What they did was sell them, and gave the proceeds to the apostles feet, then they distributed to everyone as needed.

    Imagine this, a city that sells everything and share everything as equals. Nobody has any personal belongings, rather they shared all things in common. If you needed something for whatever reason, then you had a whole CITY filled with people that are willing to give whatever you need. Notice, it is a need not a want. Of course, with corrupt men, this won't work. IT will only take those that fear God that can make such a system that Jesus and the first century Christians followed work. God must be with them.

    Likewise.

    The balance you are really asking for me to do is put Jesus words below others. All I am doing is telling you to obey Jesus, and the response is, "we must balance what Jesus says with other people". This is in NO way what the Bible teaches.

    You say, "either the whole Bible is God's word or none of it is".
    Why? Where did you get this doctrine? Not from the Bible because the bible says that JESUS is the Word of God. This idea that the "whole Bible" is the Word of God is not taught by the Bible. Just stating your opinion doesn't make it truth.

    I don't pick and choose. What I do is line the Bible up with Jesus and His teachings. The bible says Jesus is the cornerstone, therefore everything we teach must line up with him. If not, then we are not following the Bible's guideline of how to interpret scripture.

    Jesus is the way, the TRUTH, and the life, therefore, if I teach Jesus, then I am teaching the truth. Simple, eh?

    No need for the flattery.

    Jesus words only fight against other bible writers when we try to elevate what they teach, above the teachings of Jesus. When we put the cornerstone back into our doctrines, then what other Bible writers teach will make sense. If we leave Jesus out (which is what you are doing by negating everyone of his teaching that I shared) then we are not looking at the Bible in the correct view. I don't think any words I can say will change your mind. I will leave this point for God to sort out between him and you alone.

    What I imply is that people use other parts of the Bible to negate Jesus. People's interpretation of what other bible writers say is what I have an issue with. If they use Bible scripture to promote Jesus' words, then I will gladly say Amen along with them! However, if they use other Bible writers to negate what Jesus said, then I will ignore that person's interpretation of what the think the Bible is saying, and simply say, "Listen to Jesus' words."

    I still am a bit confused as to why you say I'm a lone ranger? Maybe what I said about me having a fellowship of believers that live like the first century christians didn't get sent?

    Really, Jesus is talking through his words found in the Bible. Whether or not I have a physical organization to show for it doesn't make Jesus' teachings obsolete. Nor does having an organization make it more credible. Even Jesus didn't have an organization, yet only individuals of the religious system of their time that wanted to follow God, even if it meant leaving their religious organization, would accept Jesus' message.

    Your last point is correct. There is a congregation that has joined forces!

    I agree. We each have to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. I can appreciate you pointing me to your organization, because I know you hold a belief that only those within the JW organization will be saved. I appreciate the gesture. However, from hearing your stance about the teachings of Jesus, and lighning it up with what Jesus teaches, then I would say your organization does not follow the commands of Jesus. Do they follow some? Sure. Do I follow all? No. Not because I don't believe in them, rather I am weak and fall short. Do I try? Yes I do.

    However, when I hear Jesus say that I must FIRST forsake all to become a Christian, then I took that command seriously. Jesus said unless I do this, then I am not a Christian. I can't even consider myself a Christian because I haven't followed the first requirement.

    The faithful and discreet slave is one that follows and obeys Jesus, and teaches others to do so. Yes, I can say I have found other people that do just that.

    I know from experience that I won't change the mind of a JW because of the fear that the organization puts on their followers. They teach that if someone is disfellowshipped from the organization, then they won't be saved. I will be afraid too. However, this isn't true.

    Let Jehovah open your heart to more truth.

    In Peace and love



    .
     
  10. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Your current house, along with everything you currently have.

    ..........
     
  11. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    I currently live in an apartment that I started to live in for about 3 weeks now.

    I get the impression that you think I am saying that we can't have ANY material possessions what so ever! And you would be right. However, after the initial forsake all where you give up literally everything you have, God is faithful and true in giving you what you need each day. Whatever I currently have isn't mine, rather is God's, so I should be prepared to let it go at any given moment. Something I have done and continue to do over and over again as God leads. NOTE: God leading you to let go of things and telling you to hold onto things happen after the initial forsake all. This doesn't apply to anyone who has not forsaken all first. That is Jesus' requirement.

    You only need enough faith that God can provide for you today. That's it! Remember, don't worry about the morrow for the morrow will worry about itself. Isn't this such great news! All I have to do is have faith that God, the Creator of the universe, will provide for me just for today! It is very much a worry free life indeed! :)

    What's with the many dots?? I hope it indicates something positive?? :grimacing:

    In peace
     
  12. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    What I am asking GT is, "Has God asked you to give up your possessions? Not last year. Not last month. Not last week. Today. :)
     
  13. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Sorry for the late response. For some reason I didn't get a notification.

    No, today he hasn't asked me to give up anything in particular.

    I noticed that once I gave it all up once, he usually asked me to give certain things that I don't need, or that I've become attached to up as he directs.

    Now what I am asking you npeace is, "have you given up all your possessions to begin your walk with Christ yet?"

    Also, I didn't get an answer to the "........" you responded to me with.

    In peace
     
  14. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Hi @Deeje,
    GT here. I was just wondering if you read my response yet? I'm really enjoying our conversation and am interested in hearing your thoughts on my latest reply.

    Well, hope this message finds you well.

    In peace
     
  15. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    No problem. I get that problem at times.
    So does God speak audibly to you? I thought you were going by what's written. :innocent:
    When exactly did he tell you to give up your possessions, and has he stopped telling you to do so?

    How did I begin my walk with God? Good question.
    Does it start with giving up possessions? Which possessions should I part with? Should the Bible be the first to go, or my shoes? :D

    My walk with God began over two decades ago, and it started according to what's mentioned here - John 17:3
    This means everlasting life, their coming to know you, the only true God, and the one whom you sent, Jesus Christ.

    From there, it has continued to include what's mentioned here - 2 Peter 1:2-11
    2May undeserved kindness and peace be increased to you by an accurate knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3for his divine power has granted us all the things that contribute to life and godly devotion through the accurate knowledge of the One who called us by his own glory and virtue. 4Through these things he has granted us the precious and very grand promises, so that through these you may become sharers in divine nature, having escaped from the world’s corruption produced by wrong desire. 5 For this very reason, put forth all earnest effort to supply to your faith virtue, to your virtue knowledge, 6to your knowledge self-control, to your self-control endurance, to your endurance godly devotion, 7 to your godly devotion brotherly affection, to your brotherly affection love. 8For if these things exist in you and overflow, they will prevent you from being either inactive or unfruitful regarding the accurate knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9For anyone lacking these things is blind, shutting his eyes to the light, and has become forgetful of his cleansing from his sins of long ago. 10Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to make your calling and choosing sure for yourselves, for if you keep on doing these things, you will by no means ever fail. 11 In fact, in this way you will be richly granted entrance into the everlasting Kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    The reason why, is mentioned here -
    1 Timothy 2:3, 4
    3This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God, 4whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.
    Matthew 7:21-23
    21“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

    From what I can see, there is an emphasis on gaining an accurate knowledge of Jehovah God, and his son Jesus Christ.
    The reason seems clear to me that as the apostle Paul said, one can be sincere about worshiping God, but be sincerely wrong.
    Romans 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to accurate knowledge.

    Hence, lacking such knowledge evidently results in not being able to please God and gain everlasting life.
    How do we gain accurate knowledge?

    I can tell you how I gained it, and it seems to be the right way, according to the scriptures.
    Romans 10:13-15
    13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent out? Just as it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!

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    Aren't those feet beautiful? ;)
    Just like Jesus' and his earlier followers.
    What about you... How did you gain accurate knowledge?
    Also, you can show me if I should have started my walk any differently. :)
     
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  16. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Back then, in Hebrew there was no number greater than 1000, so in order to write 144,000 one would have to use combinations, and some theologians believe it was likely 12 12s thousands-- or in more recent math 12 X 12 X 1000.

    But these numbers are also symbolic, as 12 stood for "completion" (12 tribes; 12 apostles, etc.) and 1000 stood for "great numbers" since it was the highest number available.

    So, if we write it out using words, it probably stood for "completion upon completion and in great numbers", thus innumerable.
     
  17. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    I'm sorry, but I did not feel that there was any point in continuing.
    You have your mind made up and so have I. I disagree with much of what you believe, just as you disagree with what we believe. Why bother to differ? If you are convinced that your interpretation of scripture is correct, then what does it matter what I think, or what anyone else thinks for that matter?

    You are your own "faithful and discreet slave" as well as your own congregation and your own shepherd. You don't need anyone to teach you or to direct you because you seem to have some kind of direct line to Jesus. How wonderful. But how does that make you different from all the others who claim the same connection but whose beliefs differ from yours? You cannot identify your brotherhood......how was that the case with the first Christians? Where do you send the people you preach to? Christendom?

    We will see Jesus go to work very soon, so go your own way in peace and I will go on enjoying the truth of God's word as dispensed by his appointed "faithful and discreet slave", and the fellowship of my global brotherhood who are all busy in the work Jesus assigned.

    My brother @nPeace has given you a very comprehensive reply. I fully concur with everything he said.
     
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  18. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    Hi. Well I can see your point that we have two very different views of scripture.

    It seems your emphasis is in a physical organization and bringing people to it while all I am offering is Jesus. Nothing less, nothing more.

    Your other main point is that since you can't see my organization, then it doesn't make it valid. That is a dangerous mindset to have. Not only does it limit your view, but it also causes those that God sends to reprove you (and your organization) as 'heretics' because they didn't follow the "leaders of man". That is the basis of your belief. Whatever the higher ups say is true because they are "annointed by God" is truth. God isn't able to speak to us "non-anointed" unless it's through them.

    This is the very spirit that Jesus came to break up. Remember, the Jews WERE anointed by God. They were the chosen nation. Yet what happened? They went off the rails, but people still followed them blindly because they didn't learn to listen to God themselves. All organization invaribly end up that way because God isn't working through an organization anymore. He is working through individuals. When the veil that covered the holy of holies rent in two when Jesus died, that was the END of organized religion.

    Consider the fact that there are other organization, just like yours, that claim to be the mouthpiece of God. Why should I listen to yours and not theirs? Obviously it should be by what they teach. An organization doesn't equal truth. If it does, then you are no different then Christendom that you heavily preach against.

    That's the sad reality. We usually turn into the very thing we hate.

    In peace
     
  19. GoldenThread

    GoldenThread Member

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    I think people start walks at different points. God gives people truth as they are able to accept them. Some can accept more initially, some cannot. Nevertheless, if they are walking in sincerity, then when more truth is being revealed to them, they will let go of what they previously know because greater truth is being revealed to them.

    This is what the religious people of Jesus' time couldn't do. They wanted to hold onto the traditions of their elders, so they lost contact with God and started focusing on human's to guide them. Only those that were seeking and thirsting after more truth were able to hear Jesus and what he taught.

    God can speak to people audibly. There are many ways for us to know God's will. The teachings of Jesus being the cornerstone that we must base ALL so called "revelations" from God. If they don't line up with what Jesus taught, then it isn't from God. Simple, eh?

    My walk with God started when I decided to start walking with Him! :) Also simple. However, God, Jehovah if you prefer, gave us requirements before we can officially walk with him. Those requirements were sent by His son in what we call the Gospels, or Good news, today. There are two specific requirements that define a Christian, simply because these requirements is what Jehovah told Jesus are the requirements. They are:
    Luke 14:33, "whosoever does not forsake ALL that he has, cannot be my disciple". Notice here that this requirement must be done, or else, we are not his disciples. That means if someone hasn't done this, then, by Jesus' (which Jehovah gave Him) standard we are not his disciple. Notice these are Jesus' words, not mine. That point is important. If we want to know how to be a disciple of Jesus, Christians and Disciples are the same thing (Acts 11:26), BTW) then we must look at the master and find out if there are any requirements. The scripture in Luke 14 is one of them.

    The next one, and probably the more important one, is found in Matthew 6:24," No one can serve two masters: Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money."

    Here we read another requirement that we must do before we can serve God, that is, stop working for money. Isn't that what this scriptures say? You CANNOT serve both, God and money? Therefore, if we serve money, then we are not serving God. If we serve God, then we are not serving money. This is an ultimadum. Either you choose one and hold to it, or choose the other and despise it. You either love God and work for Him, or you HATE God and work for money. It is as simple and clear as that.
    If you would like further thoughts on this point, then check out this video:
    bit.ly/MostHatedCommand

    It does a good job explaining it in plain speech.

    Now I know this is difficult to understand. I mean, how can we survive without money, right? Well, Jesus answers those worries in the preceding verses. Read them for yourself.

    So, I started walking with God by fulfilling His requirements that He required of those that want to walk with him.

    Now you, my friend, are sitting at a cross roads. You can either reject the words of Jesus and accept them as truth, or you can reject his words, and hold to your doctrine that was passed down from men. There's no room for lukewarmness in Jehovah's kingdom. We are either red-hot soldiers for Him, or we are systemites for the devil. The choice depends on what you do hereafter.

    @Deeje chose to stick with her organization as the means for her salvation. I know the tight rope that the JWs have on their followers. You feel that if you go against them, then you go against God. Just like the rebellion that happened with Moses in the wilderness. Jehovah killed all those that rebelled against the authority of Moses! But now, are you confident that your current church is under the same authority. Confident enough to risk yours and those you influence eternal salvation? If so, then by all means stick with it. But, if you can hear the words that Jehovah has revealed to you through His son Jesus, then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.

    Peace be to everyone that reads this post.
     
  20. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    Okay. So you mean like a person who doesn't want to let go of the Law of Moses, and accept the Law of the Christ.
    Yes, that happened during the first century, and continues to this day.
    The apostle Paul warned against this (Colossians 2:13-17)
    He went further to speak of doctrines that would be from demons. (1 Timothy 4:1-5)

    Okay, so do you believe God speaks audibly to you though?
    You said he can, but you haven't said if he does or not. Does he?
    If you say he does, how do you know, and is that based on scripture - which scriptures?

    I agree with you that God's requirement were stated by Jesus in the Gospels, but I also believe his apostles carried on his teachings, and therefore what they further wrote, in the rest of the Christian Greek scriptures, also contain God's requirements for his people, or all who are Christ's followers.
    There is, I believe, much we can learn from, the Hebrew scriptures, about God's requirements, and his purpose, since, as apostle Paul said, "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, so that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16, 17)

    Do you also believe the entire Bible, or are there some parts you don't accept?

    There are many things Jesus said, that are very important requirements.
    Matthew 5:28-30
    28 I say to you that everyone who keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If, now, your right eye is making you stumble, tear it out and throw it away from you. For it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be pitched into Gehenna. 30 Also, if your right hand is making you stumble, cut it off and throw it away from you. For it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to land in Gehenna.

    Have you ever looked at a woman with lust, after beginning your walk? Do you still have your right eye? :D

    Please do not take that literal... I beg you.
    If you are trying to do what God requires, that is good.

    What are your views as to what Jesus meant here? Matthew 24:45-47
     
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