Foam On - Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity?

[SkepticThinker]

Secular humanism.

 

[Father Heathen]

Secular Humanism by far. No contest.

Human rights, civil liberties, and critical thought are vastly superior to irrational and unsubstantiated superstitions.

 

[Nakosis]

Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

I think the common denominator here is man. Regardless of the system you ascribe to, we are all just human.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the common denominator here is man. Regardless of the system you ascribe to, we are all just human.

I saw more not being able to actually define or describe those systems, especially without some hoops and leaps of mental gymnastics to create a cover that somehow applies to Christianity but not the others.
Such as how it's obvious the OP doesn't realize the Soviet Russia didn't really follow Marx and even Lenin said Marx wasn't that big of an influence.

 

[Nakosis]

I saw more not being able to actually define or describe those systems, especially without some hoops and leaps of mental gymnastics to create a cover that somehow applies to Christianity but not the others.
Such as how it's obvious the OP doesn't realize the Soviet Russia didn't really follow Marx and even Lenin said Marx wasn't that big of an influence.

Marx IMO was an ideal. An ideal of what ought to be, like Christianity and Humanism. However these are not the reality of human motivation.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Marx IMO was an ideal. An ideal of what ought to be, like Christianity and Humanism. However these are not the reality of human motivation.

That's fair. Other than not writing how to get there, the stateless aspect of Marxism is problematic, and it is highly idealistic, and likely to end back up in square 1 of repeating class struggles as someone will very likely try to take over when no one is formally in charge.

 

[Jose Fly]

So when and where did this Christian utopia exist?

 

[sun rise]

Of the choices, secular humanism. Although a good case can be made for deism which was the belief of many of our founders and thus behind the founding of the US.

 

[syo]

Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity?

Society is seriously damaged. So...

 

[Kooky]

None of the three ideologies mentioned in the OP have a particularly good track record in human history.

That said, I do not believe that ideologies are responsible for human action - in any belief and any framework of thought, there are possible ranges of interpretation; Christianity encompasses liberation theologians as well as the witch hunts, just as Marxism encompasses both social democratic welfare policies and Stalinist GuLags.

The foundation of secular humanism remains the European Enlightenment, which influenced a whole lot of movements both benign and harmful, such as the creation of modern human rights, Enlightened despotism, and the French Revolution.

 

[Kooky]

Of the choices, secular humanism.

So, guillotines at dawn, then?

 

[Kooky]

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

Unfortunately, the times when Christians have "acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible" in the manner you describe have been few and far between, compared to the times when Christians acted to suppress, torture, and kill people all over the world.

 

[epronovost]

I would say secular humanist but you are comparing a religion, a philosophy and a political utopia. While you can compare one with another relatively easily all three at the same time its a bit more difficult. Plus, when it comes to Christianity, there are thousands of denominations and centuries of history. Secular humanism has, at most, something like 250 years of existence as a concept and only took off in the post World War 2 world as an organizing concept for societies and a dominant force. Communism is also very recent having at most 150 years of existence and much like Christianity has several different version of its doctrine some of which were applied more or less successfully like Marxism-Leninism or Maoism others failed to implement like communalism and some only theorized like anarcho-syndicalism.

Plus, humanism was a philosophy born out of Christian thoughts and communism holds many of its promises from communal living that also has roots in Christianity. What both secular humanism and communism reject is the superstitions and dominance of a theology than many of its core value. Hell, secular humanism implies that all religious practices are fine and dandy.

 

[Viker]

Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

None of the above. It's time for a truly Satanic era. No slavery, no concentration camps, no genocide, no more bull****.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Which of these solutions to the world's problems have the best track record -- Marxism, Secular Humanism, or Christianity? In just the past hundred years, Marxism (Communism) brought a reign of terror and tyranny unlike any the world has ever seen. Secular Humanism brought us the sexual revolution. Promising freedom, it instead gave us pain, heartache, broken families, new deadly diseases, and tens of millions of aborted babies.

Has the record of Christianity been perfect? Unfortunately, we have our shameful events as well. But when we have acted in accordance with the teachings of the Bible, no other group can compare with our record of bringing peace, prosperity, health, freedom, strong families, charity for the needy, educational opportunity, and elevation of the dignity of all people than have Christians.

I think you are going to find that no matter the institution, when you get people involved bad things can happen.

What is 'foam on"? Is that a Human Torch reference????

 

[BilliardsBall]

Well, let's break these claims down:

1. Peace: History is littered with denominational Christian wars, torture, witch burnings, crusades, etc. I see no relation.
2. Prosperity: The poorest nations in the world are the most Christian or religious, and the most wealthy are the most secular. Jesus said to give away all your possessions in order to achieve salvation.
3. Health: JW's refuse blood transfusions, the most religious people in the US are currently refusing vaccinations, and again, the healthiest nations in the world are also the most secular.
4. Freedom: What? The Bible allows slavery. The tenets of Christianity hold that we all will be tortured unless we obey and praise a powerful being. Many Christians refer to themselves as "slaves of god." I don't understand how this is freedom.
5. Strong families: I don't consider a family with a subservient wife to be "strong." I don't consider families that disown their gay children "strong." I don't consider families that discipline children with physical violence to be "strong." As has been previously stated, teen pregnancy/birth and divorce rates are highest in the most religious states in the US, and I believe this trend plays out among the nations of the world.
6. Charity for the needy: Who knows? Religious charities are not required to open their books for outside scrutiny, so there is no way to verify how much money goes to the charitable cause, versus administrative costs and bonuses for the boards of directors. And donations spent on converting new people to Christianity is not charity.
7. Educational opportunity: I have heard from Christian women who were pressured to marry instead of going to college. Christian education teaches "facts" that are observably, demonstrable false, and such graduates are distinctly unqualified for a range of professions. Abstinence-only education is a provably ineffective, dangerous, and misleading curriculum. Professors at Christian colleges sign statements of faith that forbid them from publishing ideas outside a set of preapproved religious conclusions, on threat of being fired.
8. Elevation of the dignity of all people: Is this satire? Christianity elevates people? While it claims we are all depraved, dirty humans who deserve infinite suffering by default because of our natural thoughts and desires?

Most forms of Christianity sound like living as an battered spouse. The lifestyle to me sounds like one of fear, shame, guilt, and constant self-doubt and self-recrimination, all while living under a threat of extreme violence that you're told is a punishment that will be your own fault. It encourages people to view others judgmentally, to separate "us" and "them" with the brightest line possible, and it devalues our one human life we each know we have in favor of a hypothetical eternal life later on.

Secular humanism has no dogma. It simply acknowledges that we as humans value ourselves and each other. It is open to any reliable method that can advance the goal of human wellbeing and human flourishing. It is absolutely superior to Christianity in every way, and the data we glean from reality confirms this.

Interesting how people can arrive at different conclusions with the same data. Example:

"2. Prosperity: The poorest nations in the world are the most Christian or religious, and the most wealthy are the most secular. Jesus said to give away all your possessions in order to achieve salvation."

2. Prosperity: Poorest nations - pagan religion, 2nd most, Roman Catholicism Richest, 1st world Protestant/Bible roots.

Etc.

 

[sayak83]

Interesting how people can arrive at different conclusions with the same data. Example:

"2. Prosperity: The poorest nations in the world are the most Christian or religious, and the most wealthy are the most secular. Jesus said to give away all your possessions in order to achieve salvation."

2. Prosperity: Poorest nations - pagan religion, 2nd most, Roman Catholicism Richest, 1st world Protestant/Bible roots.

Etc.

Sorry to upset your boats. Catholics are Christians. Maybe the true conservative Christians along with the Orthodox community.
Second roots are irrelevant. All of Christianity has pagan+Jewish roots. The dominant ideology of the Western developed nations and East Asian prosperous countries (like Japan , S. Korea etc.) is secular humanism along with US.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I have always liked Groucho Marxism.

 

[AlexanderG]

Sorry to upset your boats. Catholics are Christians. Maybe the true conservative Christians along with the Orthodox community.
Second roots are irrelevant. All of Christianity has pagan+Jewish roots. The dominant ideology of the Western developed nations and East Asian prosperous countries (like Japan , S. Korea etc.) is secular humanism along with US.

Thanks sayak. I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[BilliardsBall]

I have always liked Groucho Marxism.

College professors exalt Karl Marx as a pillar of wisdom and integrity, believing his ideas will solve our societal problems. Did you know Marx never held a steady job and that he spent most of his days sitting, thinking, and drinking while two of his young children died of starvation? Two other children committed suicide when they became adults. With his track record, should we really be looking to Karl Marx for advice on life?