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"Florida Bill Prevents Kids from Studying Subjects Their Parents Don’t Agree With"

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
They give a flying **** about teenagers in high school being taught how to use condoms.

If you can't figure out how to use a condom without assistance you're clearly having more problems in your life than your education, lol. This is not rocket science nor beyond the ability of the average teenager to understand. Also, the companies that make condoms are so nice that they even put instructions in the box with pictures. I mean, you do know they do that right? :D (I've never seen a reputable brand of condom that doesn't include this information.)

Anyhoo, it's not the the old days and most pre-teens already have seen porn to some degree -- they know how the machinery works basically so the argument is invalid from both sides of the proposition. However, the biology is important to understand and material that they wouldn't run across through their and their friends meanderings.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is a possibility to debate everything and anything. That doesn't have any bearings on facts, however.
At this points, the facts are all the evidence points toward evolution being a fact.
And I suppose you think germs and gravity shouldn't be taught in "regular" school then, if you think theories are for advanced course work.

Obviously, your capacity for hyperbole is amazing. Congratulations.

Gravity isn't a theory, but we only can really guess at what mechanism truly makes it work. If it's observable, it's not in this category of useless information I'm specifically addressing. The finer points of the theory of evolution are really TLDR for this thread, so I'll digress. But, suffice to say, my point was religion = politics in this situation. I want neither in the schools because neither make you money or smarter. The subjects the educators want to teach that are controversial are the ones that leftists love and since they're about 99% of the educators they see "nothing wrong" with jamming it down everyone's throats. Of course, then they get outraged when more conservative people seek legal and legislative remedies when they can't get an audience at the school board meeting. The irony is hilarious.:D

If the shoe was on the other foot, so to speak, the leftist would be in the street hosting yell-a-thons and speaking of injustice or something then they'd go into a media spin about how this legislation caused someone to get pregnant, or they committed suicide because they felt like a freak because they were gay. Essentially, this is just an attempt to "bully" and get your way but you're doing it with outrage and tears instead of principles and morals. But, I guess you have to have morals to use them to make your point. :D
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
But not the entire population of school age children as Shaul here would have it. Much of the parenting populace simply doesn't have the ability, or time, or both to do a proper job..

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But of the ones that do they seem to be as effective if not more effective than the ones packing the kids off to school and letting someone else do the job of teaching them the basic tools that prepare them for the rest of their life.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
I know it's not all, but it's still a big enough thing that I am definitely not the only one, or even one of a few. What I had, it's found throughout the world (though mostly in America and pretty much exclusively at Missionary camps in foreign lands).

Other than the religious part (could be any) of your personal experience that may have hindered you it seems you grew up to be intelligent, reasonable, well rounded, and self aware enough to understand how it affected you overall. Whatever you were taught seems to have worked, the rest seems to have played itself out as your life progressed.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
If you can't figure out how to use a condom without assistance you're clearly having more problems in your life than your education, lol.
And yet your assumptions are not playing out in real life, and in places where we find actual sex ed we find reduced teen pregnancy and a lower rate of STIs.
Anyhoo, it's not the the old days and most pre-teens already have seen porn to some degree --
And that is why they need sex ed, because porn is, at the very best, a horrible and inadequate substitute for sex ed that fails to teach anything about sex beyond "insert, thrust, repeat."
Obviously, your capacity for hyperbole is amazing. Congratulations.
Obviously, your talent for underestimating the well informed mind is renowned. And to deny the simple fact that you can debate everything. Knowledge must not be your strong point.
Gravity isn't a theory,
And that is exactly why bills such as the on proposed in the OP must die.:rolleyes:
Gravitational Theories
Gravity - Wikipedia

A theory of gravitation is a description of the long range forces that electrically neutral bodies exert on one another because of their matter content. Until the 1910s Sir Isaac Newton's law of universal gravitation, two particles attract each other with a central force proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them, was accepted as the correct and complete theory of gravitation: The proportionality constant here is Newton's constant G = 6.67 x 10-8 dyn cm2 g-2, also called the gravitational constant. This theory is highly accurate in its predictions regarding everyday phenomena. However, high precision measurements of motions in the solar system and in binary pulsars, the structure of black holes, and the expansion of the universe can only be fully understood in terms of a relativistic theory of gravitation. Best known of these is Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity, which reduces to Newton's theory in a certain limit. Of the scores of rivals to general relativity formulated over the last half century, many have failed various experimental tests, but the verdict is not yet in on which extant relativistic gravitation theory is closest to the truth.
Although Newton's theory has been superseded by Einstein's general relativity, most modern non-relativistic gravitational calculations are still made using Newton's theory because it is simpler to work with and it gives sufficiently accurate results for most applications involving sufficiently small masses, speeds and energies.
I want neither in the schools because neither make you money or smarter. The subjects the educators want to teach that are controversial are the ones that leftists love and since they're about 99% of the educators they see "nothing wrong" with jamming it down everyone's throats.
It sounds like you want exactly what the Religious Right wants in school. Which is nothing that contradicts their ideology and dogma.
Essentially, this is just an attempt to "bully" and get your way but you're doing it with outrage and tears instead of principles and morals. But, I guess you have to have morals to use them to make your point.
No, it's an effort to teach kids vital information and keep religious dogma out of school. It's to make sure kids know about birth control, and ensure they have a better chance at not believing the lies that condoms are generally ineffective.
And you speak of morals? You are the one who calls yourself a Satanist while promoting Conservative Christian dogma. You have sided with the "morals" of ignorance, enforced stupidity, and denying the rights of an individual so they may be subjugated and dictated by another.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Other than the religious part (could be any) of your personal experience that may have hindered you it seems you grew up to be intelligent, reasonable, well rounded, and self aware enough to understand how it affected you overall. Whatever you were taught seems to have worked, the rest seems to have played itself out as your life progressed.
It didn't work. As I said earlier, I had to relearn some things like history and science. My earlier posts here? I doubted evolution because I was not even properly taught what a theory is, and didn't know how to judge and access that information on a scientific level. I was taught how to use the Bible to guide my life. I was taught to first consider Jehovah in all things, and put my own desires aside for god's will. I was taught how to be a slave for god, and how to like it and not ask questions. But I did anyways. And I got out. And it's so infrequent that people get out of that cult that many believe it can't be done, and any attempts to help people out of it are wasted. Had it not been for a few variables, I myself may not have gotten out. Because what I was taught was to stray from that path, to doubt and question, was the path to Hell. I had to overcome that before I did leave, and it wasn't easy.
I basically went from being groomed for church leadership, being considered the ideal teenaged Christian, to mega sinner, apex blasphemer, Devil following, enemy of god who is an abomination before his eyes. That took a lot of work and effort, and basically disregarding everything I was taught while home schooled (I still retain tons about church history though).
 
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Stanyon

WWMRD?
It didn't work. As I said earlier, I had to relearn some things like history and science. My earlier posts here? I doubted evolution because I was not even properly taught what a theory is,

Did your state not have standardized tests and teaching requirements for home schoolers? I ask this because where I live here in the midwest parents have to jump through a few hoops before they are allowed to home school their kids.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Did your state not have standardized tests and teaching requirements for home schoolers? I ask this because where I live here in the midwest parents have to jump through a few hoops before they are allowed to home school their kids.
At least back then (this was during the mid and late 90s), no. In Indiana my mom had to do basically nothing. We had no requirements of standardized testing, and the only teaching requirements was I had to go in to the church building I think it was at least once a week, to take tests, get help if needed, and basically a "progress check" to make sure work is being done.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
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"A Florida Senate panel has narrowly backed a bill that would leave children without the right to learn about subjects their parents don’t agree with — including the theory of evolution, anthropogenic climate change, and a whole raft of topics under the umbrella of sex education.

In addition to science-based topics, progressive activists point out that the bill could lead to children of white supremacists being pulled from lessons about African American history or the achievements of other cultures, or Holocaust deniers who refuse to let their children learn history lessons that counter their own propaganda.

The woman who filed SB 1634, State Senator Kelli Stargel (R-Lakeland), says the bill does not change any of the rights already afforded to parents under Florida law; it just highlights them and requires schools to incorporate explicitly into their policies.

This bill is not a huge departure from what we have in law. It is basically compiling together [in law] for the parents to be involved with their children, that parents know they have rights, and parents have the ability to govern their children in a way they feel is best.
It’s telling that the phrase “parental rights” appears in the bill’s text several times, while the idea of children’s rights rates not one mention.

LGBTQ rights activist Delilah Pierre points out that LGBTQ children will be doubly impacted by the bill: kept from learning about LGBTQ history and identity even as they face the risk that their educators will feel compelled to out them to unsupportive families:

This bill takes away the right of queer and trans kids to even have their own personal identification of themselves, their right to have to tell their parents of their queerness and their transness, in their way, on their own terms. This bill makes it possible for people to erase even more LGBTQ history.
source and more


Thoughts?

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I think that is wonderful. It is about time that education was placed back into the hands of the parents.

"Fear" is a great seller, so what could happen doesn't mean it will happen. Anyone can teach what they want their children to know at home when it comes to many of these subjects.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It is a sign of how weak and insecure their faith is, if it cannot survive the utterance of ideas and so thus ideas must be prohibited. It's terrible for the now, but also a potential death throw as the Religious Right becomes ever more desperate to maintain their hold on society.
So... if you don't want your children to learn about "flat earth", it is because you are weak in your beliefs?

Or, more importantly, if you don't want your children to learn about God being a "first cause" as a theory, it is because your are insecure?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
With half the population carrying an IQ below 100 I don't see this as a good idea.

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And most of them are in public schools.

Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers—66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent—and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.

https://www.usnews.com/education/hi...12/06/01/home-schooled-teens-ripe-for-college
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If I was afraid of anything it would be that far too many kids would be poorly served by attempts at home schooling.

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You make a point. Government run schools have such an excellent track record on serving kids educational needs. Wait....

Maybe home schooling isn’t so bad.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
At least back then (this was during the mid and late 90s), no. In Indiana my mom had to do basically nothing. We had no requirements of standardized testing, and the only teaching requirements was I had to go in to the church building I think it was at least once a week, to take tests, get help if needed, and basically a "progress check" to make sure work is being done.
Homeschooling has come a long way from then...

Screen Shot 2020-02-24 at 7.54.12 AM.png
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As this thread demonstrates, conservatives seem less concerned about the quality of education than liberals. Is it because those who are well informed and think critically are less likely to vote for their favored party/politicians?
Or is it that liberals know they must indoctrinate young impressionable minds to get support because their ideas can’t cut the muster in a free marketplace of ideas?
 

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
With half the population carrying an IQ below 100 I don't see this as a good idea. :)

Note that in this rather interesting IQ evaluation 25% of the population has, at best, an "up-hill battle" to get through life. That's 1 in every 4 people. ;)




2019-04-10_9-49-23.jpg


source


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Your source doesn’t show what you think it does. Intelligence is associated with success in life but it is not causal. I doubt you understand the distinction either.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
If I was afraid of anything it would be that far too many kids would be poorly served by attempts at home schooling.

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Actually, it is about competition and getting the best product out for the benefit of the children. Too many people have found that public schools, in many cases, poorly serve the students. Violence, bullying, disrespect, lack of control by teachers due to laws all contribute to a better opportunity for home-schoolers.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
It sounds like you want exactly what the Religious Right wants in school. Which is nothing that contradicts their ideology and dogma.

I find these statements quite interesting. Put everything is a category so that it can prove your point.

So... Religious Right vs. what? Your position as a Socialist Left?

So "their ideology and dogma" vs your "ideology and dogma"?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
O.k. so you were intellectually shortchanged by the people who should care the most for you and want to prepare you for the world, that doesn't mean everyone has the same experiences. To suggest that all home schoolers involve religion just seems your own personal ax to grind due to your experiences.

Up here a lot of students using home schooling is due to behavior and crime activities. Those students are removed not merely from the normal public system but even a specialty school as well. Home school is the only option once those students have burned those bridges. Keeping in mind that the public system in Canada is doing better than those in the US so there is little to no perception of a failing public system seen in the USA.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Actually, it is about competition and getting the best product out for the benefit of the children. Too many people have found that public schools, in many cases, poorly serve the students. Violence, bullying, disrespect, lack of control by teachers due to laws all contribute to a better opportunity for home-schoolers.

Lowest common denominator paced education as well. Lack of advance classes or even advancement of grade levels. I used distant education to complete grade 9 in 2 months. My parents moved me to a private school once I had documentation (transcript) for grade 10 of the same year. The public system refused advancement of grade levels and advance classes outright. The administrators even tried to bluff by forcing me to take assessment tests which placed me at a grade 12 level..... They still refused.
 

Stanyon

WWMRD?
Up here a lot of students using home schooling is due to behavior and crime activities. Those students are removed not merely from the normal public system but even a specialty school as well. Home school is the only option once those students have burned those bridges. Keeping in mind that the public system in Canada is doing better than those in the US so there is little to no perception of a failing public system seen in the USA.

Here in the U.S. homeschooled kids typically have about 14 credits for college while public school kids come in around 6, that is quite a difference. I'm not sure where the stereotype of the dumb or ignorant homeschool kids came from but the data speaks for itself, homeschooled kids do much better in higher education and tend to complete it at higher rates because they are better prepared. I have ideas as to why this typically is the case (and it's not just the curriculum) which I will put in my homeschool thread if I get around to making it.
 
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