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Featured Flood terminologies in the antiquities

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Onoma, Aug 6, 2020.

  1. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    OK, now I will bring the " grain " into the conversation ( I have to split this into 2 posts )


    Most us already know that the cultivation of grains were central to the fertile crescent (The Cradle of Civilization, as it's also known ), and that in the ancient world it was common to pay workers their daily wages with commodities like beer and bread, etc, and that Barley, or " barleycorn " was one of the staple crops

    You may also be familiar with various " grain " measures used in modern times, as a measure of mass ( Mainly )

    Grain (unit) - Wikipedia

    ( I have to add here that this is a case where Wikipedia's weakness and tendency towards dilettante information really shines, as you can see, aside from a mention that the " grain " has been used " since the bronze age ", it basically provides no information or hyperlinks to the other Wiki pages that cover Mesopotamian or Egyptian metrology, all of which discuss, generally, the grain unit and its uses )

    But, what isn't generally known is that the barley grain was not just fundamental to society in that it served as sustenance, it also was a fundamental unit of measurement, not just found used for astronomy, but daily life

    Another generally unknown type of theme of historical literature are the association between the themes of " farming ", " farmers " and divinity and divine rule ( Sargon of Akkad - " son of a farmer " ), or the associations between divinity / gods and astronomy with farming ( The " plow star " ), which generally dates back to early Sumerian life, when priests also worked in the fields they owned ( The first known corporation, technically, was a group of Sumerian priests that owned the lands they cultivated ), or the various units of measurement in astronomy that also share these themes - the " hand ", the " grain ", the " garden " and so on

    The " grain " literally was as fundamental to life in Mesopotamian and Egyptian societies as the foot and the meter are to modern living

    As a basic introduction - the following is quoted from Dr. Irv Bromberg, University of Toronto, Canada

    Hebrew Calendar Studies: Why Divide Hours into 1080 parts ?

    " The duration of a part or " chelek " equals the earlier Mesopotamian barleycorn (pronounced she), the smallest Babylonian time unit, which also represented 1/72 of a time degree ( A unit invoked when we consider earth's rotation )

    The time degree was the principal Babylonian unit of time, corresponding to the time required for one degree of motion of Sun across the meridian = 1/360 of a solar day = 1440 minutes per day/360 time degrees per day = 4 minutes per time degree. Thus 4 minutes divided by 72 = 1/18 of a minute = 1 chelek = 1 grain

    The time degree also very nearly equals the difference in duration between the solar day and sidereal day, which in the present era amounts to about 3 minutes and 55.9 seconds. The Babylonian finger was 6 barleycorns = 1/12 of a time degree = 1/3 of a minute = 20 seconds of time. The cubit was 180 barleycorns = 5/2 time degrees = 10 minutes of time. The hour itself, corresponding to 15 time degrees.

    The Babylonian beru or double hour, corresponded to 30 time degrees. The mean synodic month in Babylonian time units was 29 days, 6 double hours, 11 time degrees, and 1 barleycorn "

    ( End quote )

    Dr. Bromberg's explanation, I feel is sufficient, for the start to this topic, yet he doesn't get into the gradual change in the use of the unit from the time of Naram-Sin, and that change was the shift under Chaldean rule ( Babylonian ), where 1 finger / horn went from being equated to 1° to 1.5° instead, but I'll cover that eventually as we get into the shifts in methods of calculation and the reasoning behind them

    As an example, in the Bible, we find this term " chelek " in verses like Genesis 31:14

    " And Rachel and Leah answered and said unto him, Is there yet any portion or inheritance for us in our father's house ? "

    חלק cheleq - from חלק chalaq - portion, part, flattering , flattery , inheritance , partaker, , share, part, territory , tract, parcel (of land) one's portion, one's possession, (chosen), award (from God) , figuratively - smoothness, seductiveness, flattery

    We can see that the use, textually, in the Bible, like many Hebrew terms, is used in different contexts and taken to mean different things, but generally that it's " core " meaning as a " portion " shows its origin to be metrological in nature, and that this metrology would, by logic, would be based on " some " earlier system of units

    It is, in fact, not hard to show that Hebrew metrology is taken from earlier systems, but I generally find that this debate is not really necessary ( I'm always open to it, but maybe in a separate thread )

    The general definition from the PSD database:

    Sumerian : še " barley; grain - a unit of length; a unit of area; a unit of volume; a unit of weight" Akkadian: uţţatu; û; uţţatu

    In modern metrology, mathematical physics, etc, we don't think of " time " as some tangible thing, yet under modern theories like the General Theory of Relativity, time itself is established as physical ( Space-time )

    In the antiquities, however, " time " was something considered tangible, through the use of the grain unit

    It was something you could actually hold, in your hand, with both the " hand " and the " finger " also being units of measurement that were then equated to the period of a pendulum, of a length given in grain

    ( These graphics are screenshots from the wikipedia page on Mesopotamian metrology, which in this case, is actually rather detailed - but not comprehensive by any means. I have used them simply because they represent the concepts well )



    The pendulum has another use though, and that is to establish the nadir - the direction pointing directly below a particular location; that is, it is one of two vertical directions at a specified location, orthogonal to a horizontal flat surface ( The base of the local horizontal coordinate system )

    As a pendulum ( Swinging ), as a weight ( not moving ). Specifically, the nadir at a given point is the local vertical direction pointing in the direction of the force of gravity at that location

    The nadir is the direction opposite to " elat same " ( the zenith ) identified in my last post with the panel on terms 9 In red ) found used in association with reference to the coordinate system " supuk same " ( The firmament )


    You may be familiar with the more modern pendulum equation and the use of the meter pendulum to define the second

    A “ seconds pendulum ” is about 1 meter long ( Generally since the force of gravity is slightly different depending on where it's measured on earth's surface, the length of the pendulum associated with the second has varied slightly over time, as various scientists have discovered )

    Now as it turns out, there are actually two separate ways in which the ancients calculated time ( This will hopefully lead us into some future discussions on whether or not they solely used sexigesimal ( base 60 ) for mathematics found associated with anything sacerdotal ( Priestly ), because I do not find this to be the case, but I intend to discuss why there's an obvious lack of base 10 mathematics in the literature of a society seemingly based on mathematical knowledge ( Remind me if I forget, this ties into why axioms wouldn't have been directly written down in plain form like what you find with the Greeks )

    So, time..

    1. Using intervals determined by the period of the pendulum, which gives a nominal day of 86,400 seconds

    2. Using intervals determined by the movement of the heavens which gives us 25,920 " parts "

    The 2nd one, is what we will find generally used in intercalating calendars, and it is here we will find that the modern Hebrew month interval used, is equivalent to the ancient month length, as both given by Greek as well as Mesopotamian astronomers

    25a of the Talmud Bavli tractate Rosh HaShanah states " Thus have I received a tradition from the house of my father's father: the rebirth of the Moon ( This is a New moon - a flood ) is not less than twenty-nine and half days, two-thirds of an hour, and seventy-three parts from the previous one "

    29 + 1/2 + 40/(24 × 60) + 73/(1080 × 24) days

    = 29 + 1/2 + 40/1440 + 73/25920 days

    = 29 + 13753/25920 days

    Expressed in base 10 numerals in terms of days with an exact fractional remainder that equals:

    29 + 31/60 + 50/(60 × 60) + 8/(60 × 60 × 60) + 20/(60 × 60 × 60 × 60) days

    = 29 + 31/60 + 50/3600 + 8/216000 + 20/12960000 days

    = 29 + 13753/25920 days

    In Mesopotamian base 60, the mean synodic month = 29 days 31' 50'' 8''' 20''''

    The decimal representation of the exact value of the traditional molad interval = 29.530594135802469 days

    For Judaism, we have

    1 day = 25,920 chelekim ( Plural of chelek )
    1 Month = 29 + 13753/25920 days

    For Mesopotamians, you find that the nominal length of time of a full precession of the equinoxes ( What is associated with astrology ), is 25,920 " years "

    I find that this term 25,920 is often attributed to Plato, ( As well as the precession ) however, Plato spent 13 years studying mathematics and astronomy under the Horite ( Egyptian ) priest Sechnuphis. Horites, interestingly are said to be inter-married with the family of Esau, grandson of Abraham through Isaac (Genesis 25:21-25). They were eventually brought under the rule of the descendants of Esau, also then known as Edom - red ) which coincidentally is the color associated with " sacred " mathematics in Egyptian texts ( The Rhind for example ) as well as the color of text considered to be " acts of creation " when read aloud from literature dealing with " magic "

    But, that said, 25,920 pops up because it's the more convenient way to synchronize several different calendars

    Where we have the luni-solar calendar synchronizing lunar and solar calendars with the use of the synodic month average of 29.53... days ( Intercalation ), we have the ability to synchronize the luni-solar calendar to the movements of the heavens as well ( Precession of the equinoxes )

    This allowed accurate prediction of not just eclipses and new moons, but it allowed them to predict where in the mazzaroth / zodiac those events would actually occur ( Along with various other syzygies, etc )

    Another little understandably confusing complexity of Mesopotamian phrasing, is that you have identical terms used to refer to different things, and this is common in the literature dealing with astronomy

    A " day " or a " month " or a " year " could be referring to time as a terrestrial ( earth ) day/month/year, or it could be referring to them as intervals in the stellar calendars

    ( Continued in the next post )

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  2. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    When I began working my way through what Plato would have been studying under Sechnuphis, I found that Egyptian calculations in astronomy also rely on the same term ( 25,920 ) that Mesopotamian calculations do, ( I will cover this with depth ) and when you compile multiple tables of possible data values ( Using regula falsi methods ) for an ephemerides, you'll find that figurate numbers like triangles and square numbers are central to the mystery of the general lack of Egyptian texts dealing with the things like calculation of eclipse cycles

    For example, Heliopolis yielded virtually nothing on mathematical astronomy, yet was a city built on Sun worship

    Egyptian priests transmitted this type of " sacred knowledge " of figurates mainly through oral teaching ( Think Oral Torah ) and the " big secret " here is that the knowledge of the unorthodox ways in which these figurate numbers could be applied could be memorized easily, provided one was familiar with the closely guarded knowledge

    Essentially what you have, were actually mathematical " tricks " for memorizing calculation methods, known as mnemonic devices, or memory devices, - any learning technique that aids information retention or retrieval in the human memory

    I will show you some rather bizarre ( To say the least ! ) things about several figurates in particular and astronomy calculations / metrology as we get into the math, but for the meantime, I will offer to the reader that they deal with 3 specific triangular numbers that are commonly associated with the Bible, one of which appears as the sum of the letters / numbers that write out the phrase translated as

    " In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth "

    The other two, 666 and 153, ( in addition to 144,000 ), are also taken directly from this body of knowledge dealing with mathematical astronomy

    666 and 144,000 in specific, are taken directly from a body of very simple calculations one does in the course of computing times, lengths, distances involved with eclipse calculations ( Mainly ), and this is rather trivial to show, as far as the math involved, and also trivial to show they come from Mesopotamian and Egyptian calculations

    That said, let's move on to the " garden ", because I intend to fully expose these numbers, and their use, as well as the general fallacies about silly things like microchip implants (This should be done in a separate thread imo)

    Sumerian: sar " garden; a unit of area; a unit of volume " Akkadian: mūšaru

    This cuneiform for " garden " is polysemic in nature and also used to write the term " 3600 " that is central to the calculations in mathematical astronomy / astrometry, so it is both a " metrogram " ( Unit ) as well as an " arithrogram " ( Number ) in addition to being used in general speech and literature

    You may recognize this term from Newton's calculations, ( Or not ) but even an everyday source like Encyclopedia Britannica will state:

    " When Newton discovered that the acceleration of the Moon is 1/3,600 smaller than the acceleration at the surface of Earth, he related the number 3,600 to the square of the radius of Earth "

    I personally do not, and cannot, actually credit the majority of discoveries pertaining to gravity and light to Newton, Cavendish, Kepler, etc, but I intend to fully explain exactly why through an examination of metrology as well as the history of mathematical astronomy and mathematics in general, and also present what I feel is concrete evidence these accolades to modern scientists and mathematicians are partially an academic convenience, ( IOW, we generally do not know much of anything about the identity of any specific Sumerian mathematicians to award them such accolades as being the first to discover something ), but I also feel this is partially due to a widespread academic ignorance of science in the antiquities (They thought the earth was flat ! )

    When we start looking at early Sumerian metrology, we'll find that Naram-Sin's reformation under Akkadian rule comes from pre-cuneiform mathematics, ( AKA archaic protocuneiform ) which were written mainly in ideograms, as attested to in early Sumerian texts dealing with calculating eclipse cycles ( Circa 3,500 to 4,000 BC ), so we can at least reasonably establish that Naram-Sin is not the originator of base 60 astrometry simply by the fact that the use of the mathematics predates him by quite some time

    View attachment 42001

    When one took " Sin " ( the moon ) into account, a triangular figurate,666 ,combined with the " garden " ( 3600 ), you had the approximate linear distance the moon traveled in one orbit

    This is simply 3600 x 666 = 2,397,600

    When you apply the meter, 2,397,600 kilometers is anywhere from 1% to 4% the actual modern calculated value of the linear distance the moon travels in one orbit ( Depending on whose modern data you compare to )

    This is not only not surprising or coincidental, it's trivial to show the comprehensive tables of calculation methods ( I have already prepared them over a few years' time )

    Anyhoo, this post is long enough, have company

    have questions ? Feel free to ask
  3. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    What we have, essentially, is the " meter pendulum ", as this length under Naram-Sin's reformation is 999 millimeters in length, ( The difference between the periods of a pendulum of 999 millimeters VS 1 meter are negligible, imo, as it's shown that the relationship between gravity and the measurement of time changes slightly depending on the location of the measurement )

    These are after all, nominal conventions used for approximate measurements ( Literature bears out that they were aware of the need to correct various calculations, by adding " a little " here or there, this is where methods like the so-called " Metonic cycle " originate ( Intercalation by addition of an extra month, known to Judaism as Adar ), but is also shown to be true when their water clock tables are examined ( They had precise tables of volumes of water necessary to be added to a water clock to keep mass flow rates constant, these were maintained 24 hours a day by several " watches " of priests, with the known tables giving precise volumes for the longest to the shortest days of the year - cf Hilprecht's study of waterclocks, or just ask, I have specific material screenshotted from his books to provide for the discussion if it's needed )


    What we have here, is an intimate relationship between the measurement of time on earth and the measurement of time in the heavens, with the " finger " itself being tied directly to Naram-Sin's Royal Gur unit which was based on a cube of water

    Now as an astronomer, the ideal place to use a local horizontal coordinate system to record the positions of objects in the sky using arcminutes and seconds ( garden ), is a nice flat area, unhindered by objects that obstruct the viewing of the horizon, because you are also recording these positions relative to the plane
    ( You couldn't make these measurements in the middle of a city surrounded by buildings because the local horizon is obstructed )

    In Mesopotamian texts, this type of area is what's known as " eden "

    Sumerian: eden " plain, steppe, open country " Akkadian: edinu

    This is actually a rather generic word and is commonly used to refer to the area outside a town or city ( Where an astronomer using that coordinate system would make the best observations )

    Obviously, you can already start to see a loose basis for the story in Genesis, but I think I will be able to eventually show an obvious basis, if not concrete basis for these stories, ( Adam and Eve, Noah, etc ) as I believe they are all based on priestly literature and priestly roles, of which the most important was the astronomy / astrometry ( The priest was a scribe of the gods )

    There's a rather obvious continuity in the terms used and the symbol itself

    terms, sar.png

    The bottom symbol " me " illustrates several important things

    It establishes that this fundamental unit of measurement is unarguably related to the early Sumerian " Mes ", ( The 2 mes trees in the garden of the gods ) which were roles of a priest / god / man who acted as the mediator between man and the gods ( Of which, the flood is a listed " me " )

    Mes is plural, me is singular - Me (mythology) - Wikipedia

    The reason we can know this to be true, is because not only is " me " a nested symbol using half of " garden " ( One thing written inside another ), in this case it specifically contains the word " en " ( Lord / priest ), but also the symbol for " me "


    The symbol of the garden itself, is a combination of the cuneiform for the number 9, and the symbol for " count - to tarry / reckon / encircle, etc


    When I eventually break down the simple astrometry from the Book of Revelation ( Which also word-for-word uses phrasing commonly found in Babylonian omen texts dealing with the moon and Venus ), I'll show how this term, 3600, is used in the calcs

    There is also a rather swell linguistic connection, and that is that the symbol for " horn / finger " is also taken to mean " to fill " ( with water ), which is another way in which water / priestly duties / metrology and timekeeping are linked, ( water clocks )

    water, finger.png

    Now if I wanted to point to a rather obvious item from history that also references this " finger ", the best example would be the massive finger stele of Hammurabi, containing Hammurabi's laws, as well as a reference to the " flood ", by way of the term " bubbulu "

    Not only does the stele itself reference this priestly unit of metrology, the " finger ", it also ties the " flood " to the unit, since it's the unit ( the main one ) in which eclipse magnitudes were recorded in Mesopotamian texts

    The upright finger itself, the theme of the " finger of God ", are both rather regularly occuring themes in historical literature for good reason ( They have a real basis )


    This " finger " and the " grain " also figure prominently in the Bible ( Grain offerings, for example ), so I guess that should be the main theme of my next post

    Attached Files:

    #63 Onoma, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
  4. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    The " grain ", as used in the Hebrew scriptures, shows it's phonetic origin to be from the Mesopotamian unit
    ( Thought to be pronounced as " shey " or " she " )

    Generally, it can be shown that this unit exists prior to Naram-Sin, simply by looking at the semiosis of the sumerian protocuneiform compared to the Egyptian ( Identical semiosis )

    se, b.png
    However, in the context of Egyptian society, this grain unit can also be directly linked to timekeeping , water, ( clepsydra- water clocks )and sacrificial offerings as they were part of the sacerdotal ( Priestly ) duties of the pharaohs themselves, through the " nu " pot, seen below in the hands of Egyptian rulers, along with some of the variants of the sign, all of which refer to concepts dealing with divinity and water

    nu pot.png

    In the earliest Egyptian hieroglyphic writing, the picture of a pot of water was taken as the symbol of womanhood, the "vessel" which received the seed

    The common phonetic value of the symbol is Nw or Nu

    Nu was the symbol of the cosmic waters, the god Nw (Nu), whose female counterpart was the goddess Nut

    Essentially, this concept of relating water / time with divinity / divine rule dates back to the earliest Egyptian periods

    This spherical nu pot and the use as a measure for keeping time using water, along with the association of unit of length with volume, has been shown to have been preserved in the antiquities through modern analysis of Greek and Phoenician jugs ( And others ) , which have been shown to have mainly been based on the Egyptian royal cubit, as their circumferences commonly measure ~ 52 centimeters (The Royal cubit is ~ 52.5 centimeters)

    The nu pot is on the left, the Phoenician jug on the right

    nu pot, b.png

    I have some links from various articles in journals dealing with archaeology / analysis that discuss these spherical pots, if you're interested, remind me and I'll dig them up, but I'll probably get to it eventually when I get into Egyptian metrology

    For the Jewish calendar, the growth of the crop of barley is considered to be a fundamental timekeeper in itself, which I found quite interesting for the reason that not only is it thought of as being fundamental to timekeeping as a physical crop, but that it's also fundamental to timekeeping as a unit of measurement

    The year begins with the first New Moon ( Flood ) after the barley in Israel reaches the stage in its ripeness called " Aviv " ( The month of the supposed Exodus from Egypt ) The period between one year and the next is either 12 or 13 lunar months ( If the barley is " Aviv " at this time, then the following New Moon is Hodesh Ha-Aviv - "New Moon of the Aviv". If the barley is still immature, it's checked again at the end of the 13th month )

    Barley is in turn connected to the "wave-sheaf offering" (Hanafat HaOmer), a sacrifice brought from the first stalks cut in the harvest, brought on the Sunday which falls out during Passover (Chag HaMatzot) ( Leviticus 23:10-11 ), this is also known as a " first-fruit " offering

    It's also one of the 7 crops of the promised land, in Hebrew scriptures- wheat, barley, grape, fig, pomegranates, olive (oil), and date (honey) (Deuteronomy 8:8)

    It's not the only grain associated with offerings, but it is the one that appears to be central to religion and religious concepts prior to the Bible, and it is the one that regularly appears in Biblical scriptures, but is also tied to " prophetic " scriptures, as in:

    Daniel 9:27

    " And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate "

    מנחה minchah- offering, present , gift , oblation , sacrifice , meat, gift, tribute, offering, present, oblation, sacrifice, meat offering, tribute, offering (to God), grain offering

    There are many possible discussions that could branch off here, in respect to the minutiae of Judaic offerings in temples ( I believe these are mainly covered in the Kodashim , 2nd tractate - Menachot ), but perhaps that would best be discussed in a separate thread

    My point, so far, if I had one, would be that there is an obvious historical continuity in the themes relating

    ~ grain
    ~ farming / growing / gardens / trees / etc
    ~ water
    ~ metrology
    ~ time
    ~ astronomy / astrometry
    ~ divinity and sacerdotal duties


    Also, thank you for your patience, it's realistically going to take me at the very least, several weeks, if not several months to get the bulk of my findings posted, and being that the math I have been able to distill from my studies is the best part ( ! ), I want to first establish that there are many real things that provide a basis for the various writings in the Bible, and that in this case " truth " is something needs serious re-examination, because getting to what is " true " requires proper exegesis

    I think the best way to check whether or not something and it's parts have good tensegrity ( Support each other ) is through comprehensive analysis, and that requires attacking something from all of its various angles, ( Noah's flood story for example ) which ultimately is forensic ( Not in the criminal sense ). Most of what I have discussed so far has not been comprehensive, ( In respect to my notes and material ) rather the posts are meant to start to introduce the various concepts and their inextricable nature that's been gradually erased over time through both academic and theological biases, so again, thanks for the patience !
  5. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016

    " The statue of Hera is seated on a throne; it is huge, made of gold and ivory, and is a work of Polycleitus. She is wearing a crown with Graces and Seasons worked upon it, and in one hand she carries a pomegranate and in the other a sceptre. About the pomegranate I must say nothing, for its story is somewhat of a holy mystery "

    ~ Pausanias

    Pausanias " Description of Greece " ( English Translation by W.H.S. Jones, Litt.D., and H.A. Ormerod, M.A.)

    This account by the Greek geographer Pausanias ( 2nd century ), refers to another theme that is directly tied to the " flood " by way of being the main sobriquet ( Nickname ) of the moon during new moon

    This is known in early Sumero-Akkadian literature as the " fruit " ( Of Sīn, the moon )

    This is most well known from the tablet K 170+ ( I've provided an excerpt from a book on Mesopotamian literature where it discusses the names in the context of mathematics and philology, important, as this text is one of the earliest known examples of numbers being used for names of gods, an example is that the name of the moon - Sīn , is commonly written as the number " 30 " ( For the reason that the moon sweeps one 30 degree arc in one nominal month - 12 months x 30 degrees = 360 degrees )


    The fruit of the pomegranate itself figures quite prominently not just in the Bible, but with divinity and divine rule throughout history, being found in relatively modern art depicting Jesus, as well as ancient Mediterranean, Greek, Egyptian and Mesopotamian literature and art

    In the Bible this fruit appears, for example, on the hem of the robes of the High priest of Israel, on the tops of the two pillars of Solomon's Temple, and on Torah scrolls this commonly adorns the ends

    priest, temple, torah.png

    This fruit has more recently popped up in modern excavations of Levitical sites in Israel, but also distinctly only at Levitical sites

    This one comes from Shiloh, the major Israelite worship centre before the first Temple was built in Jerusalem, discovered in 2018 ( Article - When Archaeologists Dug Up A Lost City In Israel, They Found A Biblical Secret Deep Underground )


    You may already be familiar with the ivory pomegranate " ( Actually hippopotamus bone ) Its origin is unknown as it appeared on the antiquities market anonymously in 1979, and has been the subject of controversy as far as it's authenticity


    It appears on commonly on early religious artifacts, vases, jewelry and coins as well as appearing in Egyptian artwork as a common motif


    The fact this fruit appears at the Temple of Bel ( The one ISIS destroyed ) is very interesting in light of a mathematical tablet containing a very peculiar geometric series, discovered by Hilprecht during an excavation, but I'll explain when eventually getting to the curious links between Mesopotamian and Egyptian math

    For now, I just want to establish there is a direct link between these concepts of the " fruit ", the " flood ", the roles and duties of a High Priest ( Announcing new moon, for example ), and the synodic month average central to their texts

    There is another side topic to this discussion ( Remind me if interested ) and that's the changing over time, of the use of various bodies in the heavens to keep time, iow, sometimes worship seems based on solar deities, sometimes, lunar, sometimes both, etc, ( It turns out there are some very peculiar things about calculating various cycles that show why exactly the synodic month average is above all the most consistently used throughout history, from the early Sumerians, to Newton to the modern calendars )

    The pomegranate has even been conjectured by some ( Rabbis ) to have been the original fruit in the garden of Eden, and it also appears in literature like Pardes Rimonim, and it continues to be a theme found in Judaism and modern Jewish life

    The Biblical mentions of the fruit really serve to illustrate the importance of maintaining significance and the general meaning of this " fruit " ( Of Sīn ) and it's historical connection to the sacerdotal duties of priests prior to the Bible itself, ( Observing, recording, calculating, astronomical cycles ) but also establish the direct connection to the importance of the calculation of the synodic month average, " floods " ( New moon and eclipses ) and the " garden "

    Attached Files:

  6. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    If periodize flood literature and then periodize the terms used, next to each other, we'll see that the " flood epics " generally sprang from the same span of time where we find the terms " bubbulu, abubu " ( And their variants ) applied to new moons

    periodization, terms.png

    If we examine the signs themselves, and the variants, we'll find that they link the concepts of divine rule and " floods " to the determinant used for cities and towns ( Like the word " flood " in the Akkadian name of Jerusalem )

    determinants, uru.png

    In this case, the city determinant ( top ) is generally written without the normally encountered nested signs ( Lower right ) in the variants " ud " ( Meaning " Day " , top sign ) and " es " ( Meaning " water ", middle sign )

    Where " Ki " ( Bottom symbol on the right ) is also the word for " earth " ( Generally ) , it's also the sign for " with math "

    When you start to group the symbols, you generally find much continuity


    This association between the concept of a " city " and divine rule is greatly complexified, in that these concepts are not just applied terrestrially, but celestially in literature ( This is common, " crowning " , " ruling ", " cities ", " roads ", etc, are generally common phrasing in texts dealing with omen like new moons, eclipses and other syzygies )

    Generally, when it comes to terrestrial, a city that was considered to be the center of divine rule, needed a high priest/s for the temple, and such, without a high priest, it wasn't the center of divine rule

    Certainly, in Judaism they know a temple is useless without the High Priest ;)

    This term " Ki " is given a good examination in the book " Lengths, Widths, Surfaces - A portrait of Old Babylonian Algebra and its Kin " ( Jens Egede Høyrup ), where he suggests that the dimensions and areas of rectangles and other measurable geometrical magnitudes served as representatives of other magnitudes (prices, workdays, etc...), much as pure numbers represent concrete magnitudes in modern applied algebra

    This concept is foundational to what I have discovered about the use of figurate numbers in the antiquities ( Square, triangular and trapezoidal numbers mainly ) and ties directly into the use of flood terminologies and this is greatly illustrated in that the main theme of an " Ark " actually refers to a geometric shape, and is written with both " Ki " ( with math ) and " si " ( Horn / fill with water, etc )


    I'm assuming here that the two upright cuneus marks ( The smaller one on " horn " ) and the larger ( To the right of " ki " ) are basic written numbers, as generally, a small cuneus = 1 and a large cuneus = 60 , but I could be completely wrong there

    Most revealing, is the use of terms in math texts


    I intend to comprehensively map these terms common to math texts to reveal some things in the future, but for the meantime I will offer that I do not believe the concept of limits deserve to be directly attributed to Archimedes, especially not when one examines the terminologies in Mesopotamian math texts

    Anyway, to state it succinctly- I believe the biblical " ark " is based on the earlier use of the term to refer to a triangular figurate ( a geometric figure ) used in astrometry of Mesopotamian and Egyptian priests

    I feel pretty safe saying this as I have been able to derive all the various dimensions, times, etc in the Biblical flood story directly from the calculations commonly encountered in mathematical astronomy, all of which are directly based on the staple of the ancient calendars - the synodic month average ( the interval that predicts a " flood " ), but I'll give that a rigorous explanation as the thread goes on
  7. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Ahh, I wanted to quickly add,

    I forgot to mention there is another common use of " flood " terminologies in addition to it's references to astronomy and priests, and that is its use in correspondence

    It was common when writing between cities / towns ( Letters in cuneiform delivered by a courier, much like modern mail ) to use the phrase " It is a flood (!) " , meaning " I need you to respond as soon as possible, it's an emergency ! "

    Basically - RSVP, ASAP !

    Examples of this are found in diplomatic correspondence between the Egyptian administration and its representatives in Canaan and Amurru during the New Kingdom, between c. 1360–1332 BC

    Known generally as Amarna Letters
  8. Harel13

    Harel13 Nin-Jew Master
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Nov 20, 2019
    Orthodox Judaism
    @Onoma I wanted to say that I think you've done a fantastic amount of research on the subject. However, I've yet had the energy to properly examine the wealth of information you post here almost daily. One day, I hope...:sweatsmile:
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    One of the revealing things about the various names of the moon god Sīn is the deification of terms more commonly associated with math,( Number, geometric shapes )

    Sumerian: usakar, sakar - " crescent moon; moon; crescent-shaped object; semi-circular line; half wheel " Akkadian: uskāru; warhu

    This is used to refer to a general shape of half a circle in the context of math, but also as a name for the god

    When it was written as the name of the god, it was accompanied by the determinant for divinity, the Sumerian ideogram of the star - Dingir ( Discussed briefly in the post about determinants for divinity )

    This superscript letter " ᴰ " you commonly encounter - example, the name for the moon - ᴰEN.ZU - the letter refers to Dingir, which is written next to the name, but not read aloud

    Just think of it like this: ᴰEN.ZU ≈ ᵀᴹEN.ZU, where " ᵀᴹ " means " This person / place / object , is divine or associated with divinity and divine rule and the associated duties )

    ( I realized that I should have covered that a little better than I did earlier in the thread because not everyone is familiar with the function of the superscripts )

    On the left are the names / terms and on the right are the names / terms that are deified by the additional dingir

    names, moon.png

    This is a simple example of " math " terms ( generally speaking ) VS " deified math " ( In that it has an association with the god/s and is deified in literature using the silent determinant dingir )

    Usually when you invoke things like " sacred geometry / math ", the conversation turns mainly to Pythagoras and woo, but realistically, these associations predate the Greeks, and the nexus between math and religious beliefs is well-attested to in the antiquities ( Made possible by polysemy in writing, so not something that should be seen as illogical, but rather normal for the period/s, imo )

    While it's sometimes maintained that ᴰEN.ZU is a name for the moon, I find that to be wrong, rather it's a name that was used to refer to the priest that served under the god, and this is why the term is deified ( When math terms are mapped together, this really starts to stand out )


    While there is no known earlier example of deification of a person in literature using dingir than Naram-Sin ( Who claimed the title " King of the four quarters / regions ", which became a classic Mesopotamian title ), imo this seems to be merely a literary tradition that started with him and was maintained for quite some time after ( Every deified Mesopotamian priest/king's name was written with Dingir - the star )

    However the theological associations between divinity and stars date back to early Uruk, ( ~ 4,000 BC ) and the " four regions " at this time was symbolized in archaic protocuneiform writing with a 5 pointed star and not the dingir ( It's under Naram-Sin's Akkadian rule when cuneiform is considered to have become rigorously distinct from earlier Sumerian archaic forms like ideograms ), and at that time the pentagram was associated with Venus instead of the moon

    The archaic form of the pentagram served as a logogram for the word " ub ", meaning " corner, angle, nook; a small room, cavity, hole; pitfall " or generally " area "

    When we look at Naram-Sin's title he claimed, we'll find some interesting things to take note of:

    1. This is part of the title Naram-Sin claimed for himself - Sumerian: lugal-an-ub-da-limmu-ba, Akkadian: šarru kibrat 'arbaim, šar kibrāti arba'i, or šar kibrāt erbetti , alternatively translated as King of the Four Quarters of the World, King of the Heaven's Four Corners or King of the Four Corners of the Universe and often shortened to simply King of the Four Corners

    2. The Akkadian - arba'i - in " šar kibrāti arba'i " is the origin of the Aramaic " arba " ( four ) which is the source of the Biblical name of Anak, ( According to the Book of Numbers, Anak was a forefather of the Anakim )

    " Anak " is a homophone to a word for "giant ", but also " neck, necklace "

    The title Naram-Sin claimed was " lugal-an-ub-da-limmu-ba " , this term " lugal " means " big man "

    " Lu " means " man " and " gal " means " big " and this is a common title for Sumerian " king, ruler " ( Of a city-state )

    It has nothing to do with being " giant " in physical stature, it's purely referring to the status of a person, in the exact same way we use " big man " in modern speech as a colloquialism - boss, manager, etc

    As a title for the ruler of a city-state, " lugal " is taken to be equivalent to " en " ( Priest / lord ) in " EN.ZU "

    It's rather frightful the way people wheedledeedle in the attempt to support the claim that the " giants " in the Bible were actually physically giants when there's a perfectly reasonable explanation as to why the phrasing ended up there in the first place


  10. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    For this post I've started with a side-by-side comparison of the timelines ( Roughly ) " flood epics " ( Left ), the astronomy " flood " terms ( Middle ), and the evolution of the notation for the " finger / horn " ( Right ), which stems from the Egyptian hieroglyphic numerals which were based on powers of ten

    ( Click to enlarge )
    periodization, flood, finger.png

    The " Myriad " ( 10,000 ) of Attic Greek ( Predecessor to Koine ) dates back to the Egyptian numerals ( Also maintained in Aegean numerals of the Minoans and Mycenaeans in addition to Linear A and B )

    The Egyptian royal cubit is 28 " fingers ", with 4 fingers to each palm, 7 palms in total


    The inclination of measured slopes in Egyptian metrology was given as the number of horizontal palms and digits relative to each royal cubit rise, which is integral to the concept of the " seked " ( The orientation of the faces of a right pyramid )

    The " seked " is proportional to the reciprocal of our modern measure of slope ( gradient ), and to the cotangent of the angle of elevation

    If you're familiar with " rise to run ", you may recognize this ( It will come into discussion when looking at how the ancients oriented various structures to align with not just objects in the heavens, but to mark certain days ( Solstice and equinoxes, mainly )

    rise to run.png

    The Rhind Papyrus as well as the Moscow Papyrus contain the most well known examples of the use in literature, but the most obvious use of the seked is the Great Pyramid itself

    It's then reasonable, imo, to assume that both Mesopotamian and Egyptian systems are meant to work in conjunction with simple plane geometry and the division of the circle into degrees, where degrees = 1 finger / horn = 1 arcminute = 3600 arcseconds

    Iow, both civilizations used the local horizontal coordinate system ( The firmament ), with both using measures based on theme of the hand / finger equated to the movements in the heavens, but tied to linear measurements on earth


    So ultimately, the " finger / horn " and the " garden " ( 3600 ) are based on these fundamental mathematical concepts, which themselves were woven into life itself

    Now when it comes to Egyptian " priestly " writing like what is in the Rhind Papyrus ( Hieratic instead of Hieroglyphic ), numerals are ciphered to the alphabet 1 to 1, using a finite series, and it is this exact system that Biblical Hebrew ( AKA Square Script ) uses

    This comes as no shock, personally, as when I consider that the Torah is said to have various " priestly sources ", I'm faced with the fact it could not have been written in the form we know today without Square Script, which would not have been possible without borrowing from the " priestly script " of Egyptian Hieratic, namely the written numerals and the 1 to 1 mapping of numerals to letters

    In this case, for Biblical Hebrew, they dropped 1,000 to 9,000 from the Hieratic numerals, and re-distributed the sum of 4,995 over the alphabet


    This is possible by the addition of the 5 " final form " ( sofit ) letters, which are attested to in Imperial Aramaic and Hasmonaean Aramaic ( Main influence of Qumran scrolls )

    In turn, Biblical Greek uses the same numerical basis

    Now the reason they dropped 1,000 to 9,000 is actually quite complex and will take some time to dissect post by post, but I will offer in the meantime that this sum of 4,995 is in turn the sum of the triple repunits 111 through 999, and it is these repunits that turn out to be integral to the calculations in astrometry and mathematical astronomy, particularly in eclipse cycle calculations, and their use is inextricably tied to certain figurate numbers
  11. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Some more on linguistic associations concerning divinity and water

    We're all familiar with the story of Jesus walking on water and calming the storm

    Rationale tells us to reject this, because unless the laws of physics are suspended, this is simply not possible

    However, given the long history of pre-Biblical associations between water and divinity, I will offer a rational exegesis of the theme of the story simply by looking at Greek word etymologies, that don't require suspending the laws of physics, nor do they generally negate one's theological views that " walking on water " actually happened

    As a side note, humorously, the mathematician Grigori Perelman ( Proved the Poincaré conjecture ! ) once won a math contest by answering the extra credit question " How fast would Jesus have to run to stay on the surface of a body of water ? " , like a Basilisk lizard, which is humorously referred to as the " Jesus " lizard

    For one, generally, pre-Biblically, " water/s " were associated with divine knowledge, I don't think this is debated, but accepted, academically

    It's common to find Mesopotamian history split into " pre and post flood " epochs, with the antediluvian reigns measured in Sumerian numerical units - sars (units of 3,600), ners (units of 600), and sosses (units of 60), by way of what's known as the Sumerian " King's list "

    Similar to the Bible, it gives seemingly impossible spans of time for the reign of kings, for example -
    The 2nd listed king of Eridu Alalngar is 10 sars ( 36,000 years ). By similar to the Bible, I mean that in respect to the lengths of time given for lifespans in the genealogies ( Methuselah, etc ) don't make sense, and seem to require one suspend the laws of physics

    What I find though, is that the lengths of reign in the King's List as well as the seemingly ridiculous lifespans in Genesis can be easily explained by a thorough examination of metrology / astrometry and the like. Jules Oppert showed that the genealogy from Adam to Noah is actually based on the nominal division of the day into 86,400 parts, taken from his study of Chaldean texts - L'Immortalité de l'âme chez les Chaldéens, (1875), but I'll cover that as I dissect the parameters of the flood story in Genesis

    The terms Apkallu (as well as Abgal) were classically found in flood epics to be names of mythological half-man - half fish beings that generally are thought to have brought knowledge and wisdom to man

    However, these terms found in the flood epics were also commonly used as an epithets for kings and gods as a mark of wisdom or knowledge, as Apkallu and " Abgal " generally mean either " wise " or " sage "

    Additionally, the term " apkallu " is commonly used when referring to human " priests " (also " exorcists ", " diviners "), so it is much like " EN.ZU " as a title for a person / priest / king

    I remain skeptical that " apkallu " were considered mythological creatures, instead these were simply referring to the fact the priests and priest-kings " swam in the deep waters " ( Of the gods ), iow, " obtained knowledge "

    This is most accurately repeated in Sîn-lēqi-unninni's incipit for the Gilgamesh story - "Sha naqba īmuru" ("He who saw the deep" or " The one who saw the Abyss "), which gives a nice bit of forensic evidence this general association between " water " and " knowledge " ( Of the gods ) was maintained in priestly literature since the earliest known Sumerian city ( Eridu )

    Eridu was roughly 5,400 BC, while Sîn-lēqi-unninni ( Gilgamesh ) lived in roughly 1,000 to 1,300 BC, so you're talking about preservation of literary tradition that spans roughly 4,000 years ( Not many things last that long... )

    In Sumerian mythology, you have the city of Eridu as the home of the " E- Abzu " temple of the god " Enki " ,( Sumerian counterpart of the Akkadian god " Ea ", god of deep waters, wisdom and magic )

    Where you have the accounts of " waters of the deep ", coming up and " irrigating / watering ", ( Bible as well as Mesopotamian texts ) you have direct association between speech and " water " by way of the written term for " to water / to irrigate "

    water, speech.png

    " Eridu " itself is a word that means " Guidance " - generally by way of the gods ), but also used to describe someone's status as a prince, ( Referring to lineage ) and when it's used to refer to a place, like the city, it's written with the silent determinant ( Ki is a silent determinant for " town / city ", but also " with "(math) )


    The written name of the abzu implies " knowledge " and association with " water " ( I also suggest here that the Akkadian: edû is the origin of the modern word " education ", but haven't looked to see what the current academic position is on that )


    This is generally reflected in the various terms like:

    Sumerian: a'abak - "sea(water)"
    .................ab -"cow" ( Of Sin ) Akkadian: abu arhu; littu
    .................ab - "a fish"
    .................ab "a fish"
    .................ab - "a fish"
    .................ab -"sea" Akkadian: abu tâmtu
    .................ab - "window, window opening" Akkadian: abu aptu
    .................aba - "who?" Akkadian: abu mannu
    .................abala - "water drawer" Akkadian: abu dālû
    .................abba - witness; father; elder; an official" Akkadian: abu; šību
    .................abbun - "a qualification of grain"

    When it comes to the name of the city of Eridu, it's interesting to note that's it's written with the same sign we find in titles like ᵈa-nun-na - " princely offspring " or " offspring of An (Dingir) " ( Offspring of the gods, cf. " water " ( a ) = " sperm " )

    Interestingly, in Hebrew, the letter Nun is believed to be derived from an Egyptian hieroglyph of a snake (the Hebrew word for snake, nachash begins with a Nun and snake in Aramaic is nun) or eel. Some have hypothesized a hieroglyph of fish in water as its origin (in Arabic, nūn means large fish or whale). The Phoenician letter was named nūn " fish ", but the glyph has been suggested to descend from a hypothetical Proto-Canaanite naḥš "snake", based on the name in Ethiopic, ultimately from a hieroglyph representing a snake


    Why this is interestingly, specifically, is that terms like " dragon / sea creature / snake / serpent / etc " are all common sobriquet ( Nicknames for rulers / gods ) in Mesopotamian texts, and links the concepts in literature, between divine rule in the earliest city-states, to the concept found in modern lineages claiming divine rule ( Again, a vast span of time for something to be preserved with literary tradition )

    The best example outside the Bible ( Associating divine rule with a dragon / serpent ) is the mythos of the Quinotaur - "bestea Neptuni Quinotauri similis", (the beast of Neptune which resembles a Quinotaur) - held to have fathered Meroveus by attacking the wife of the Frankish king Chlodio and thus to have sired the line of Merovingian kings

    As far as Biblical Greek " walking on water ", I feel it's rather easily explained:

    ( Kingdom ) - βασιλεια basileia


    ( King ) - βασιλευς basileus


    βασις basis {bas'-ece} from baino (to walk) - foot (sole of) - a stepping, walking- that with which one steps, the foot

    Again, this " walking on water " in the Bible is something that has a more rational explanation - iow, the divine rule ( kingdom ) of Jesus was referring to the ancient tradition of a priest / ruler both giving and receiving the " knowledge of the God / gods " ( water )
  12. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Another interesting bit of literary evidence ( That figurate numbers were used for astronomy calculations ) is found in Plato's writings, what's known as " Plato's Number "

    Plato was said to have studied in Egypt for 13 years under the Horite priest Sechnuphis. It's no secret that Greek philosophers studied under Egyptian priests, this is preserved in historical writing, for example- Iamblichus ( Biographer of Pythagoras ) wrote that Thales of Miletus ( One of the " 7 sage of Greece " ) had insisted that Pythagoras had to go to Memphis to study under Egyptian priests to learn natural sciences, medicine and astronomy ( Horites were devotees of Horus, who like the ᵈa-nun-na in early Eridu, was known as " son of god " )

    Plato's idea that the stars, sun, and moon were fixed to concentric crystalline spheres, rotating inside one another, has naturally long been shown to be untrue, yet there are some curious statements he makes in the Republic:

    " Now for divine begettings there is a period comprehended by a perfect number, and for mortal by the first in which augmentations dominating and dominated when they have attained to three distances and four limits of the assimilating and the dissimilating, the waxing and the waning, render all things conversable and commensurable [546c] with one another, whereof a basal four-thirds wedded to the pempad yields two harmonies at the third augmentation, the one the product of equal factors taken one hundred times, the other of equal length one way but oblong,-one dimension of a hundred numbers determined by the rational diameters of the pempad lacking one in each case, or of the irrational lacking two; the other dimension of a hundred cubes of the triad. And this entire geometrical number is determinative of this thing, of better and inferior births."

    Republic 546b–c

    This passage really could make a thread on it's own, as the terminology when broken down into smaller pieces is quite fascinating. It's been studied and written about by everyone from Aristotle, to Cardano during the Renaissance, to math historians like Paul Tannery, but there's no general consensus on exactly what it refers to

    It's associated with another number in the Republic (9.587b), known as the " Number of the Tyrant "

    " It is clear," he said, "to a man skilled in calculation." The if one turn's it around and says how far the king is removed from the tyrant in truth of pleasure, he will find at the end of the multiplication that he lives 729 times more pleasantly, while the tyrant lives more disagreeably by the same distance "

    216 is the most frequently proposed value for Plato's number, but 3,600 or 12,960,000 are also commonly considered

    These happens to be terms I've found to be central to the mathematics of astrometry in the antiquities, in particular the synodic month average, as previously mentioned, but also the " garden " ( 3600 ), so just going by the most commonly proposed numbers from mathematicians and math historians ( Who didn't actually have access to modern discoveries about astrometry in cuneiform ), it would seem like they were on the right track

    There are many widely varying opinions here, some claim it's a reference to the sum of the cubes for a Pythagorean triple, etc, but modern academics, writing like - Barton G., On the Babylonian Origin of Plato's Nuptial Number, Journal of the American Oriental Society, v.29, (1908), p.210-9, puts forth the claim it's Babylonian in origin, which strengthens the conjecture it's referring to " some " math found in the mathematics of the earlier astronomer priests ( cf. Horites )

    The phrasing Plato uses, like " wedded ", waxing and waning ", " perfect number ", " entire geometrical number ", " pempad ", " cubes " , " distances ", " period ", " divine begettings ", " better and inferior births " and so on, these are all most likely heavily influenced by a combination of earlier Mesopotamian and Egyptian conventions , but some of the phrasing can be shown to be identical to what's common in Judaism ( " Births " referring to synodic periods, and such )

    Now, given Plato's ridiculous suggestion of crystal spheres, I have taken this as an indication that by his day ( Roughly 424 to 348 BC ), the more complex earlier astrometry and large libraries of priestly ephemerides had been largely " lost " for a lack of better words ( Perhaps more appropriate would be destroyed / erased ), because from what I have been able to deduce about the unorthodox calculation methods ( In addition to the solid theory behind their units of measurement ) several thousand years prior to Plato, nobody in their right mind would have made such a suggestion after becoming familiar with the complexity of astrometry circa 3-5,000 BC

    But, that said, I feel like this is a piece of historical literature that seems to mention the use of " geometrical numbers " for astronomy calculations, and being that Egyptians were fond of using figurate numbers for calculating, and Plato studied in Egypt, that this would be a more rational explanation for his writings

    I've noted that his " number of the tyrant " is also easily reconciled with Mesopotamian / Egyptian astrometry, but I'll bring them back up when I get to the math
  13. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Alrighty, been wrestling with how to broach this, and I feel that the best way is to directly address several things at once before I get into the depths of it

    One is what we call " numerology ", and what my views are exactly, because I am going to tread into some areas that involve the blending of math, science, languages, and literature, specifically the Bible, and although I believe that the book contains some rather puzzling things that have been completely overlooked, also I also firmly believe what Richard Feynman said:

    " The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool "

    That said, I believe truth is only obtained by asking the right questions

    Now, myself, I have zero formal training in mathematics or ancient languages, etc, I am a 9th grade high school dropout, my use of math notations may be awkward or even wrong, but I don't get upset when corrected ( * big boy pants on*), and truthfully, I prefer to be corrected because it helps refine my knowledge and presentation

    I first started my journey into these topics after a very strange event one night, nine years ago, when I was about 40. Up until this time I had zero interest in the study of theology, literature, history or the Bible

    When I started, the first thing I did was look at what's called " numerology ", because it seemed to be a generalization of many different things, and everyone seemed to have their own ideas about what it was exactly, but outside of and prior to the Bible as well as prior to the modern numerals ( 0-9 ), they were not familiar with the conventions of writing that even made this possible in the antiquities, and that is the use of letters for numbers ( Polysemy ), like we see in the Egyptian Hieratic or cuneiform scripts

    So what I did was begin by reading my way through all the whacky numerology online I could find. All the supposed " ELS torah codes " trying to warn us that Ronald Reagan was an alien, or Obama was the Biblical Satan, this and that, tit and tat, gematria, " heptadic structure ", the " miracle of the quran and 19 " , all of the " sacred geometry pyramid encodes the speed of light " claims, and so on and so forth

    More importantly, I read all the debunking from people who had degrees in mathematics and the hard sciences, to get an understanding of the follies of " numerology ", specifically the sloppy misuse of mathematics, science and logic, and from this I gained several valuable insights

    The most critical was exposing the underlying apophenia and confirmation bias, because this allowed me to have a solid foundation for my studies ( cf Feynman )

    The next insight was that both sides ( Numerologists VS mathematicians ) had a rather large gap in their knowledge, and this was due to the fact that 99% of the debates / debunking revolved around the Bible itself, as opposed to the whole of literature ( About 4-5,000 years of literature prior to the Bible ), and this meant that once history was removed from the discussion, any possible explanation using a comprehensive and multidisciplinary approach had been conveniently swept off the table

    This was when I started to think about the fact that a majority of the arguments and debates people have had
    ( Flood story being a prime example ) may have been completely meaningless wastes of time, because they were " Not even wrong " ( To paraphrase Wolfgang Pauli ).

    This made me start to look into the literature and languages that came prior to the Bible, and like many, I saw there were hints of things that seemed to be sources for the writings in the Bible, from earlier civilizations, but this was either vehemently denied by those making the claims about the book ( Literalists and literal interpretations ), or it was speciously admitted as supporting the Bible's authentic historical literal account, but not fully discussed and dissected ( I suspected the fragile nature of confirmation bias )

    A good example of this is when people say that the Mesopotamian literature like the Gilgamesh epic is actually an account of the Biblical flood, and thus gives credence to the literal interpretation of either a worldwide flood, or a " local flood "

    I've heard this absolute pap put forth by respected academics like Mike Heiser, sadly, and I say sadly because this puts a respectable academic in the same basket as a crank like Graham Hancock, who likes to claim the Gilgamesh text is an account of a literal " local " flood

    ( That said, Heiser did a pretty good job at debunking Z. Sitchin's claims, as well as the claims of his readers who often make claims Sitchin himself never made in his books to begin with )

    My point here is that Heiser displays his academic bias on his sleeve, passionately going after Sitchin's work to point out the fallacies, but speciously using texts like Gilgamesh as support for his pseudoscientific " local flood " theory

    So then I set to watching the various popular talking heads in their debate videos, Hitchens, Dawkins, et al, and I once again noticed this rather dull pattern of people getting baited into arguments based on false dichotomies that disallowed any lateral entry of information that might radically upset the applecart

    I took notice of how people upheld the views ( And biases ) of their favorite pundits, while claiming " See ? My guy/s totally demolished your guy/s ! ", but once again, the bias was just too much for me. In reality, they were all just puffed up windbags with a shallow understanding at best, of any of the minutia

    What I then proceeded to do was to dismantle the Bible, much like I used to take apart things as a child ( To see how they worked )

    I came at it from various angles:

    ~ looking at all the mentions of astronomical phenomenon in the Bible ( " signs in the sky ", etc ) but then asking myself " How exactly did they do astronomy in the antiquities ? ", which led me to start with Newton's writings, where I slowly began to weave my way through the history of the topic, which in turn brought me to the topics of pure math, mathematical physics and metrology / astrometry, then analysis. This then paved the way to the work of Neugebauer, Hilprecht, Friberg, et al

    ~ Examining " gematria " and " isopsephy ", ( And all the various things like atbash, temurah, notariqon, acrostics, etc) then realizing after reading many of the claims about " bible codes " and subsequent debunkings from mathematicians, that there was a distinct difference between someone claiming significance in two different words or phrases having the same mathematical values ( Apophenia - easily debunked with statistics ) and the polysemic nature of the alphabets used to write the original texts ( Established fact )

    Iow, one was something tangible with a history that could be dissected - the polysemic quality of the scripts, and one was the product of fanciful imaginations - gematria, yet the two concepts could not be rationally separated by the debaters, which meant the ancient origin of such a convention of writing was also swept off the table, for the most part

    I also looked into the work of academics like Haim Shore, professor at Ben-Gurion University of the ‎Negev, Israel (retired 2015; now Professor Emeritus), who used rigorous mathematics to point out some curious coincidences between Hebrew terms used in astronomy phrasing and several parameters one commonly encounters in dimensional analysis / astrometry ( Iirc, he used linear regression techniques )

    I began to ask myself " What is the purpose of maintaining the written order of a text with such fervor ? " ( The Torah ). No other historical literature I could find was maintained with that consistency

    With this question in the back of my mind, I began dip my toes in the pool of Mesopotamian and Egyptian literature and languages, specifically anything having to do with astronomy, divinity, kings, priests and priestly duties..........which ultimately led me right back to the topics of pure math, mathematical physics and metrology / astrometry, then analysis

    After winding up at the same destination from two entirely different lines of questioning, I began to wonder whether or not the book somehow contained some sort of mathematical " priestly knowledge "

    I set out with one caveat - that this supposed underlying mathematical information in the Bible pertained directly to the textual claims and phrasings about astronomical phenomena

    In other words, I started with the assumption that if someone had somehow used math to hide information in the book, it would have to be math that directly came from the things the book itself spoke of

    When the book says things about " signs in the sky ", then any " hidden " math I found had to first be derivable from the actual mathematical astronomy of the period, Mesopotamian or Egyptian, from rigorous sources

    It would have to be the mathematics involved with calculating " floods " ( New moon / eclipses )

    Not only that, this math " hidden " in the Bible would have to agree with modern methods of calculation and be reconcilable with modern equations as well as all values in ephemerides as provided by NASA, ESA, et al, but also agree with modern computational analysis

    ( continued )
  14. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    ( continued )

    Nothing else made sense to me, and the premise seemed supported by cursory studies of Babylonian astronomy, so I dove in head first

    Along the way, over the course of the 9 years of study, I began to fall in love with math. I'm still 'orrible at it, realistically, but the elegance, the history, the truth, the mysteries ..I was swept off my feet. Like anything you fall in love with, it even eventually brought me to tears at times ( Maybe I'm just getting sappy in old age )

    Eventually there was a question that welled up in my mind while I was both thinking about and observing others' debates about truth and proof and such, and how this applied to the Bible

    I had a Gedanken - " If someone conjectured they had some sort of " proof " the Bible is " God's word , this claim would be handled differently by different people, let's examine it "

    For some people, what they consider and accept as " proof " is merely quoting Bible verses, like when one posts a verse from the Torah to " prove " something they think is true about something in the New Testament

    For me, this is not proof

    For some people, what they consider " proof " is something they think is based in science, yet scientists generally agree there's no such thing as " scientific proof "

    For me, this is not proof

    For some people, what they consider " proof " is done through inference and deductive reasoning, ( Logical certainty ) but the clincher is that the statement/s is/are true in all possible cases.

    They are true for anyone and everyone, objectively

    For me, this is how to obtain acceptable proof ( By asking the right questions ), and this is the basis of mathematical proofs ( As far as I understand )

    So while most people wouldn't accept the premise of math being used to hide something in a piece of literature, a mathematician would simply say " Prove it ! " ( cf debunking numerologists ), because when it comes down to it, mathematicians simply will not accept something falsifiable as proof.

    What's being presented has to be there for anybody to discover, independently ( Happens frequently )

    Knowing this, I was able to rationally state that while the rest of the world may accept various things as " proof ", the world's mathematicians will not

    By this, I then argued that the Bible's prophetic statements or claims of being " divine " are logically inconsistent if they are not provable with math

    In other words, if the Bible can't provide proof in the form that is true in all cases, then it invalidates it's own statements ( " All tongues will confess " ) and is therefore logically inconsistent, because you cannot have a scenario where you have simultaneously " all tongues confessing " while some still doubt the veracity of the Bible's claims / divinity

    I then argued that in order for these " prophetic statements " to be accepted as " true " and consistent by mathematicians, they then must be inextricably linked to mathematics, otherwise, no proof

    I just don't see any other way around it

    So if my conjecture is true, then the Bible must, by necessity, contain some sort of " proof " in the form of mathematics, and most likely mathematics dealing with the claims of " signs in the sky, etc "

    ( I don't know if this argument has ever been put forth, or whether there are flaws to it, but feel free to point anything out )

    Now, normally, one would reject this claim based on it's seemingly ridiculous nature, yet this is a fallacy in informal logic ( Argument from incredulity ), that a proposition must be false because it contradicts one's personal expectations or beliefs, or is difficult to imagine

    We want to have an open mind, but not so open our brains fall out

    What happened with my studies, is that I found that the Torah actually contains some very curious mathematical structure that seems to be taken directly from the large body of work pertaining to ephemerides of the ancient priests that detail the new moon and eclipse cycles, and that the stories themselves, at least in the Torah, textually, are most likely based on the same conventions of earlier literature pertaining to " sin " ( The moon ), the " garden " ( The measurement unit ), the " flood " and so on

    I only discovered this facet of the Torah by first crunching my way through all the unusual math involved in astrometry of the priests, so this gave it enough gravitas for me to start preparing to share what I feel I have not discovered, but rather stumbled on through devoted bumbling

    As to the consequences of my claims, if shown to be true, well, I'm really only concerned with " how " and not " why ", so I would leave that to others to decide

    Hopefully this post has helped clarify who I am and where I intend to go. I know that the subjects can provoke ire from mathematicians and non-mathematicians alike, and I wanted to lay my cards on the table, so-to-speak, so there is no confusion about where I stand

    Thanks again for your patience and willingness to listen

    My next few posts will start to get into the math, finally, now that I feel a sufficient linguistic angle has been established
  15. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Alrighty, I guess the best way to start establishing a firm foundation for my conjecture is by comparing the timeline of several critical topics

    ~ The literal " explosion " of Babylonian astronomy / analysis
    ~ The History of Greek mathematics
    ~ The Babylonian ( Chaldean ) captivity / exile
    ~ The appearance of the first copies of Genesis 1:1 written in " block script "
    ~ The " Priestly sources " for the Torah

    I'll start with this article " On the length of the synodic month " Journal: The Observatory, Vol. 111, p .21-22 (1991), provided by NASA

    → Link to article

    Specifically, what I am using from this article is the identification of the minimum and maximum synodic month lengths, as computed over a 5,000 year span of time

    This puts the minimum and maximum lengths here:


    This corresponds to the massive growth in the frequency of known Babylonian texts dealing with mathematical astronomy and analysis in the Chaldean period, as identified by Neugebauer - " Problems and methods in Babylonian mathematical astronomy- ( Henry Norris Russell Lecture, 1967 ) Authors: Neugebauer, O.
    , Astronomical Journal, Vol. 72, p. 964 (1967)( NASA )

    Link to article


    This comes as no surprise, knowing that Chaldeans ( Neo-Babylonian ) were renowned astronomers, and knowing that the average synodic month predates this period by quite some time, I feel it's safe to assume that because Chaldeans were known to have records of a complete Saros eclipse cycle, they would have also known these minimum and maximum month lengths ( approximately ) as computed in the first linked article

    Now we look at the period of Jewish exile / captivity


    Now if " block script " Hebrew ( Biblical ) required the addition of " final form letters " ( sofit ) to be able to actually write out the borrowed ( Hieratic ) numerals 1-9, 10-90 and 100-900, ( The re-distributed repunits ) but at the same time would have been needed to write at the very least, the form of Genesis 1:1 as we know it, then it's reasonable, imo, to assume that it is during this time of Chaldean captivity is when these final form letters appeared

    My conjecture about the use of the triangular figurate 2701 for Genesis is based on the use of the number in calculations for astrometry, etc, which I will shortly get to, but I will offer in the meantime that the " words " in the verse are actually the based on something similar to Diophantine approximations, but there is also strong evidence of prime number theory in addition to some other things I'll think you'll find rather intriguing


    Now we add the " priestly sources ", and their approximate dates


    The practitioners of mathēmatikoi acknowledged the religious underpinning of Pythagoreanism and engaged in mathēma (translated as "learning" or "studying")

    Unlike their Greek contemporaries, the Pythagorean philosophers represented numbers graphically, not symbolically through letters. Pythagoreans used dots, also known as psiphi (pebbles), to represent numbers in triangles, squares, rectangles and pentagons. This enabled a visual comprehension of mathematics and allowed for a geometrical exploration of numerical relationships


    Where Revelation uses the triangular figurate of 666, it calls for the reader to " count " or " reckon " the number, but the Greek word " count / reckon " itself, is from the root word " pebble " , which shows that the book uses math conventions using figurate numbers known to the practitioners of mathēmatikoi

    ψηφιζω psephizo - count , to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon 2) to give one's vote by casting a pebble into the urn 3) to decide by voting


    ψηφος psephos {psay'-fos} - stone , voice , a small worn smooth stone, a pebble 1a) in the ancient courts of justice the accused were condemned by black pebbles and the acquitted by white 2) a vote (on account of the use of pebbles in voting)

    This allows us to compare the use of figurates in Genesis with figurates in Revelation


    Eventually, linear geometrical figures replaced the figurate numbers represented as pebbles or dots, the combination of Babylonian algebra and Pythagorean arithmetic provided the basis for Greek geometric algebra

    However, what we know about figurate numbers is that they have been not only been studied and used by many mathematicians over the ages, we also find them in Egyptian mathematics

    In the opening paragraphs of the papyrus, the scribe Ahmes presents the papyrus as giving "Accurate reckoning for inquiring into things, and the knowledge of all things, mysteries ... all secrets"

    Now we can extend the timeline backwards


    What this allows us to do is see the general convergences on the timeline, in respect to the use mathematics, astronomy, geometry, figurate numbers, priests and priestly duties and literature , right around the time Genesis 1:1 appears written in block script

    More importantly, this allows to establish several crucial things


    ( Continued in next post )
  16. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    ( Continued )

    We can clean up the previous post by simply marking the timeline in red, to establish that the Bible appeared in the same span of time that Chaldean mathematical astronomy and analysis flourished at the same time the use of figurate numbers was common, ( But also the shift from figurates to linear shapes with the development of GreeK algebra ) with Greeks sourcing their math teaching from Egyptian priests


    Now we need to establish the existence of the use of the synodic month average, prior to this period

    We've actually already done this in the thread by an examination of the etymology of the Hebrew term for " flood " used in the Bible, so now we can introduce this to the timeline

    I'm going to condense the general associations identified in the previous post to two simple red marks on the timeline - denoted as " Bible / peak of astronomy and analysis / mathematics / figurate numbers "

    We can first add the span of time with which we associate " flood literature " ( I am excluding the Quran for the moment, but Islam will most definitely enter the discussion down the road )


    Then we add the terms we've identified, showing the ( likely ) origin of the Hebrew term of " flood ", and it's basis of the classical association with new moons


    We condense that down, and add our tracing of the fundamental priestly measurement unit used in astronomy, identified as the " Finger / horn ", traced by simple etymology and phonetic preservation, similar to the Hebrew word for flood preserving phonetic components from Egyptian and Mesopotamian


    Now we collapse that and add the use of this term 3,600, identified with Naram-Sin's reformation of metrology, based on the Royal gur ( cube ), but found as part of proto-cuneiform texts on mathematical astronomy


    Then we combine with the theme of the " fruit " ( pomegranate ) of " Sīn " that is used in Mesopotamian texts for the ( main ) name of the god during the " flood " ( new moon )


    This in turn allows us to connect the use of the synodic month average ( Predating the explosion of Chaldean astronomy and analysis ) to the Bible, because as we know, in Judaism they use the synodic month average as set by Hillel II, which in turn reconciles to the Mesopotamian average, and the Rabbinical explanation ( Or the beginning based on Hebrew scripture ), says in Judaism they are to use the moon to keep time, as per Psalm 104:19 - " He appointed the moon for seasons "


    Finally, we can collapse this down ( Generalizing ) to show the requirement of the calculation of the synodic month average for use as a timekeeper, dating back to roughly 4,500 - 5,000 years


    ( Continued )
  17. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    Now we can collapse this down again to show the approximate relationships over time


    Now I will collapse this group as " Lunar timekeeping / calculation / Bible ", like I did with the previous group, to make room, but also to coalesce generalized information so we can eventually use a little analysis, deductive and inductive reasoning

    We then the Mesopotamian associations between divinity, water, metrology, math, astrometry
    ( Take note that the first person to claim divinity is also the person that reformed all measurements )


    We collapse that, and move to the Egyptian


    And once again


    ( Continued )
  18. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    The first thing I want to do is attempt to reconcile the " nu " unit of the Egyptian water clock to the reformation of metrology under Naram-Sin's rule, based on the cuboid of water

    What we are doing here is starting by asking a deceptively simple question of " How do I make a water clock ? "

    .... which is actually asking " How do I determine how to make and fill a container full of water, such that the flow rate of water leaving the container matches 1:1, the average speed of an object in the sky (In this case the moon), and do it in such a way that my units used to calculate the necessary volumes of water in the container are also units for making approximate observational measurements of that same object, with my fingers ? "

    This is a rather complex question to answer, and it will take a few posts

    We start with the " nu pot "

    The Egyptian nu pot was used not just for water clock measures, but also measures of various grain / incense / etc offerings

    We find this hieroglyph also used to write the name of the god " Nu " ( In the Hermopolitan Ogdoad cosmogony, Nu was the deification of the primordial watery abyss ), in addition to an array of related hieroglyphics

    The name is paralleled with nen "inactivity" in a play of words in, "I raised them up from out of the watery mass [nu], out of inactivity [nen]". The name has also been compared to the Coptic noun " abyss; deep "

    ( This shows the relationship to the Sumerian " Abzu " (ab ='water' zu ='deep' ), but imo also a link to the later Gilgamesh colophon of the priest Sîn-lēqi-unninni - "Sha naqba īmuru" ("He who saw the deep" or "The one who saw the Abyss")

    Where Egyptians used the sphere, Naram-Sin used the cube, so to first understand the basic relationship between the two systems of metrology, we need to look at the formulas that relate volume of cubes and spheres, then reconcile that to the Royal Egyptian cubit rod

    Click to enlarge, reads left to right

    nu pot.png

    Then, we look at Naram-Sin's Royal gur ( A fraction of a " garden " ) and cubit compared to the Egyptian Royal cubit

    Click to enlarge

    egyptian , akkadian cubit.png

    One thing we know about Egyptian Royal cubit rods, is that they range from 523.5 to 529.2 mm (20.61 to 20.83 in) in length

    Where the cubit of Naram-Sin has 30 fingers each with 6 grain width, the Egyptian cubit has 28 fingers, with each finger being divided into 1/16 ( At its smallest )

    One, seems rigidly defined as based on the meter - Naram-Sin's, with each grain being 2.7 millimeters for a total of 360, while the Egyptian does not seem to reference this unit, they both ultimately relate to the meter, in that 6/pi meters is the length of the Egyptian cubit, while 999 millimeters is the length of the Akkadian cubit, so ~ 1 meter

    This rigid definition of the unit/s is why Naram-sin's reformation of metrology became the standard, but as I get my calculation tables posted I think it will become crystal clear why

    Under Naram-Sin's system, it's easy to reconcile his cubit to the synodic month average and the " flood ", yet we can do the same with the Egyptian cubit by way of the unit circle and the fact that 6/pi on the unit circle gives us 30°

    30° is the nominal arc swept by the moon during one synodic period, and thus the likely source of the common name of Sîn in text, which is the number 30

    ( This will come into play in the later discussion of the use of triangular figurates for astronomy, by way of Computus ( Calculation of the date of Easter ) and what's known as an " epact " - fractions of a synodic period - 1/30 )

    Knowing this, we can then show how these measurements in the systems are related, as the grain is a measure of time for the solar calendar ( Egyptian calendar is solar ) but also for the luni-solar calendar ( Synodic month average )

    One is strictly solar ( Egyptian )
    One is Luni-solar ( Akkadian )

    Click to enlarge

    unit circle.png

    Simply put, it shows us the origin of the Hebrew time unit, the " chelek " is actually the the grain, and this unit is then fundamental to the astrometry of both Mesopotamian and Egyptians, in turn this knowledge would have been known to the Levite priests. as the High Priest was responsible for calculating and announcing the " flood " ( New moon ). This changed when they had no priest and went to requiring " 2 witnesses " ( Also taken from Babylonian texts I intend on covering )

    Click to enlarge


    The Judaic theme of associating water and birth is directly taken from the Mesopotamian calendars, they referred to these time periods as " conceptual cycles "

    ( Continued )
  19. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    May 8, 2016
    ( continued )

    ETA: The 2nd panel in the last post incorrectly had the number of grain per 1/2° as 6 instead of 3, so this first panel is the correction to the last post

    egyptian , akkadian cubit.png



    If what the Sumerians called " conceptual cycles " are actually referring to the periodicity of things, ( Mainly ), then it should be simple to extrapolate their methods of calculation by looking at their systems of metrology

    I think the best way to begin to do this is to use the numbers provided by the Book of Revelation, as they are the simplest example of the connection between mathematics and astronomy

    What we know:

    ~ The Jewish calendar is based on the Babylonian calendar, which itself preserves the calendar of Nippur - Sumerian (Third Dynasty of Ur ), with " Ur " being the home of the Chaldean astronomers from which the Biblical Abraham is said to have originated

    This is a luni-solar calendar that synchronizes the lunar and solar calendars by way of intercalation ( Insertion ) of an extra month, using the synodic month average, this is known in the Judaic calendar as " Adar ", and in the Babylonian calendar as Araḫ Addaru

    The most important use of the synodic month average in the synchronized calendar in the antiquities was the interval in the calculation of times of new moons and eclipses, hence the reason " bubbulu " ( Flood ) refers to both

    ( Click to enlarge )


    ( I'll cover the " Metonic " cycle when I get to eclipse cycle calculations )


    As a side note, I try to avoid astrology, but couldn't help but notice that the Babylonian calendar, the month of Adar was ruled by the god " Erra ", with it's zodiac sign being Pisces, which in turn has become associated with the character of Jesus

    Erra was the god of mayhem and pestilence who is responsible for periods of political confusion, in the epic that is given the modern title Erra, he is awakened by the minor godum and the Seven (Sibitti or Sebetti - the " sons of heaven and earth " )

    The Sibitti then call on Erra to lead the destruction of mankind

    The poem was central to Babylonian culture: at least 36 copies have been recovered from 5 first-millennium sites—Assur, Babylon, Nineveh, Sultantepe and Ur

    The poet exclaims (tablet IV:3) of Erra - " You changed out of your divinity and made yourself like a man "

    In such, Erra may be a partial source for the Biblical character of Jesus


    When I began to look at the numbers in the Book of Revelation, I did so under the assumption they were taken from a body of calculations done by priests, specifically involving eclipses. This seemed to be the most logical source, going by the textual statements involving the " darkening of the sun / moon "

    This conjecture was strengthened when I learned that some of the phrasing in Revelation was taken, word-for-word, from Babylonian omen texts dealing with eclipses and syzygies involving the Sun, the Moon and Venus

    The Woman of the Apocalypse (or Woman clothed in the Sun ) " A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet "

    In Babylonian omen texts, these references to the sun and moon refer to the relative positions of Venus, the Moon and the Sun, to each other ( Above or below one another )

    Using the system of arcminutes / seconds, we can then begin to extract some vital information that shows these numbers are taken from simple calculations regarding eclipses


    We can then easily show that this is more than likely taken from the system Naram-Sin instituted with his reformation of metrology

    This is where we start to get a glimpse of the underlying peculiarity to their systems, when triangular numbers are involved

    This shows us that the actual design of the symbol for " garden / 3600 " encodes information about astronomy in that it's written with the sign used for something encircling / returning ( An orbit ) and is paired with the number 9, and in reality represents a simple fraction, but as a unit of area, is 36 square meters, but given as 12 kus by 12 kus, which allows us to further show the connection to two very important concepts, the golden ratio and Pi

    ( The powers of 10, taken from the Egyptian hieroglyphics, are going to be rather central to the thread discussion, and commonly come up in water clock tables )


    Then, we can see, that the sum of the Hebrew and Greek alphabets, being taken from Egyptian Hieratic, is actually the sum of the triple repdigits ( These were used in aphelion and perihelion calculations, I'll show in future posts )

    So where the area of Naram-Sin's " garden " is 12 x 12 kus,(144) this allows us to obtain the likely source of the 2.7 millimeter length given for the " grain ", by simple exponents and rounding


    ( continued )
  20. The Anointed

    The Anointed Well-Known Member

    Jul 1, 2018
    biblical believer
    Over 2,000 years before George Smith’s discovery of the deluge tablets in Iraq, there existed an account of the Chaldean [pre-Babylonian] flood myth. Berosus, an ancient Chaldean historian living in the time of Alexander the Great in the 4th century B.C.E, relayed to the Greeks the antiquity of his peoples deluge myth in the following words: “After the death of Ardates, his son Xisuthrus reigned eighteen sari. In his time happened a great deluge; the history of which is thus described.

    The deity Cronos appeared to him in a vision, and warned him that upon the fifteenth day of the month Daesius there would be a flood, by which mankind be destroyed. He therefore enjoined him to write a history of the beginning, procedure, and conclusion of all things, and to bury it in the city of the sun at Sippara; and to build a vessel, and take with him into it his friends and relations; and to convey on board everything necessary to sustain life, together with all the different animals, [In the area of his known world] both birds and quadrupeds, and trust himself fearlessly to the deep.

    Having asked the Deity whither he was to sail, he was answered, “To the Gods;” upon which he offered up a prayer for the good of mankind. He then obeyed the divine admonition and built a vessel five stadia in length, and two in breadth. Into this he put everything which he had prepared, and last of all conveyed into it his wife, his children and his friends. After the flood had been upon the earth, and was in time abated, Xisuthrus sent out birds from the vessel; which finding no food, nor any place whereupon they might rest their feet, returned to him again. After an interval of some days, he sent them forth a second time; and they now returned with their feet tinged with mud. He made a trial a third time with these birds; but they returned to him no more: from whence he judged that the surface of the earth had appeared above the waters.

    He therefore made an opening in the vessel, and upon looking out found that it was stranded upon the side of some mountains; upon which he immediately quitted it with his wife, his children, and the pilot. Xisuhrus then paid his adoration to the earth: and having constructed an altar, offered sacrifices to the Gods.”

    It should be noted that the account of the deluge relayed in the tablets discovered by George Smith differ only very slightly from Berosus’ account, which differs only slightly from the story handed down by the Chaldean, Abraham, whose father ‘Terah’ was High Priest in the temple of the Chaldean city of Ur.

    The flood of Noah didn’t come as a surprise. It had been preached on for four generations. Something strange happened when Enoch was 65, from which time “He walked with God.” Enoch was given a prophecy that as long as his firstborn son ‘Methuselah’ was alive, the judgement of the flood would be withheld, but as soon as he died, the flood would be sent forth.

    Enoch named his firstborn to reflect this prophecy. The name Methuselah comes from two roots: muth, a root that means death, and from shalach, which means ‘To Bring’ or ‘To Send Forth.’ Thus, the name Methuselah signifies, ‘His Death Shall Bring.’ And, indeed, in the year that Methuselah died, the flood came.

    Remembering that Abraham was the son of Terah the High priest of the temple in the Chaldean city of Ur, and he was, according to the erroneous Roman OT, 58 when Noah died, the question is now asked, could the Chaldean name ‘Arsates’ mean, ‘When he dies it will happen? And could the name ‘Xisuthrus’ have the same meaning as that of the name ‘Noah’, which is, “One who brings relief or comfort?”

    The Chaldean month of Daesius, is the 2nd month, which corresponds with the biblical account that it was in the second month that the flood came. But there is a two-day discrepancy: the biblical account is the 17th day, [See Genesis 7: 11.] whereas the other is the 15th day.

    These three flood accounts are so similar it becomes obvious that they originated from the one source. Another interesting similarity between the Chaldean deluge story and the one as handed down through the Hebrew, is that before the flood, people lived extraordinary long lives until the god/gods declared that man shall no longer live past a restricted age limit. This signifies that the floods of both cultures mark the same transition in the history of the world, that being, the birth of the modern world.

    The more that I am forced to look at the flood accounts, the more I am convinced that some catastrophic event occurred some 3,500 years ago, which caused worldwide devastating floods and tsunamis, of which the more accurate account of the flood that devastated the civilized world of that day, can be found in the Hebrew culture that came down from the Chaldean Abraham, and his family, whose language and racial religion have remained intact for over 4,000 years.

    Good News Bible, Catholic Study Edition Genesis 7: 11-12; When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month all the outlets of the vast body of water beneath the earth burst open, all the floodgates of the sky were opened, and rain fell on the earth for forty days and nights.

    Scientists have long suspected there was a lot of water beneath our feet, but this may be the first direct evidence that a vast reservoir of water is locked inside the mantle’s “transitional zone.” The significance: If just 1 percent of the “transitional zone” is made up of water, researchers say, it would triple the amount of water on the Earth’s surface.

    One assumption is that all ice contained on land has drained to the sea and not held in continental lakes or rivers. Once all ice is melted and added to the global oceans our seas would rise by 216 feet as compared to the current level.

    Scientific researchers today, have absolutely no idea of just how much water is locked up in the transitional Zone, and yet they believe that if just 1 percent of the “transitional zone” is made up of water, it would triple the amount of water on the Earth’s surface. But if in the future it is discovered that much more than 1 percent of the “transitional zone” is made up of water, and the forty days and nights of pouring rain, was not water that had evaporated from the earth, but somehow came from earth’s close encounter with a decomposing Comet, that was said to have occurred around 2350 B.C., would there have been enough tidal pull by the close encounter of the passing comet to cause the water to cover the mountains viewed and recorded by the observer of such a flood?

    Psalms 104: 5-9; “You have set the earth firmly on its foundations, and it will never be moved. You placed the ocean over it like a robe, and the water covered the mountains. When you rebuked the waters, they fled; they rushed away when they heard your shout of command. They flowed over the mountains and into the valleys, to the place you had made for them. You set a boundary they can never pass, to keep them from covering the earth again.”
    #80 The Anointed, Sep 5, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020