• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Flirting vs. Sexual Harassment

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
It seems that nowadays the lines between flirting and sexual harassment are becoming increasingly blurred. Now, before I say anything more, I believe there is a very important distinction to make between sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sexual assault involves physical contact and is absolutely wrong. A man should never touch a woman without her consent.

However, it seems that today, even complimenting a woman's appearance (especially if she is a stranger or distant acquaintance of the man and not a friend) could lead to being seen as creepy and in some environments (office, for instance) could lead to accusations of sexual harassment.

Here is my controversial, yet very simple assessment of the situation. If a guy approaches a woman and she thinks he's handsome, it's perfectly acceptable flirting. If a guy approaches a woman (and says the same things as guy #1) and she thinks he's ugly, then he's a creep and in some cases even a sexual "harasser." Creepy and confident have the same definition, except that creepy guys are ugly and confident guys are handsome. Thus, unattractive men that approach women in the office will risk losing their jobs, but attractive men will not (ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?). But, how can a male know if a female finds him attractive unless he approaches her? Perhaps women should start approaching men instead. This would resolve the problems.

Thoughts? Do you have any better way of distinguishing between flirting and harassment? Let's see it.
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Office romances are asking for trouble. If you ask people on dates at the office or mildly outside of it, better have another job lined up.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Just here to point out that in spite of the OP's framing, sexual harassment happens when a member of any sex makes unwanted advances towards any sex. Which throws a pretty massive wrench in the entire premise of the OP. Yes, this is deliberate.

Men are larger than women, so men hardly ever accuse women of sexual harassment since there is little or no actual threat from a woman making unwanted advances toward a men. For the record, I welcome female sexual harassment toward me (can't speak for other men, tho). Women, please sexually harass me more often.;)
 

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
I remember a female RFer (won't call her out, although she's been gone for years) once said that the difference between flirting and harassment depends on how cute the guy is.

I'm a man, and it does for me too, but there's more to it....

Basically humans work in such a way where they like mistreatment or lack of tact under certain circumstances, IF the giver knows what they are doing and they are someone the receiver likes. Think BDSM. However if someone doesn't meet that criteria, it does cause cognitive dissonance for the receiver.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I remember a female RFer (won't call her out, although she's been gone for years) once said that the difference between flirting and harassment depends on how cute the guy is.

Yup, that's why womanizers like Brad Pitt, Adam Levine, Russell Brand, etc. aren't getting accused of harassment, even though they've undoubtedly said things to women that an ugly guy would get tarred and feathered for.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?

I think Kevin Spacey is pretty steaming hot. I wouldn't mind being sexually harassed by him. :hearteyes: I don't find Brad Pitt all that attractive. Actually, he's too "pretty".
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Men are larger than women

Correction - some men are larger than some women.

so men hardly ever accuse women of sexual harassment since there is little or no actual threat from a woman making unwanted advances toward a men.

Oh, really? Setting aside the incorrect premise about size, are we ignoring the impact of verbal harassment now? We're also going to ignore gay and lesbian relationships? Of course we are. It doesn't fit into your narrative.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
I think Kevin Spacey is pretty steaming hot. I wouldn't mind being sexually harassed by him. :hearteyes: I don't find Brad Pitt all that attractive. Actually, he's too "pretty".

Kevin Spacey is an actual rapist. His actions are clearly and absolutely wrong. I'm talking about guys like Matt Lauer.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member

Oh, really? Setting aside the incorrect premise about size, are we ignoring the impact of verbal harassment now? We're also going to ignore gay and lesbian relationships? Of course we are. It doesn't fit into your narrative.

If a man accused a woman of "verbal harassment" he'd be laughed at. There is a double standard, which I think is somewhat justified due to size and strength differences. However, I do think harassment accusations that don't involve touching have gone way too far.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
It seems that nowadays the lines between flirting and sexual harassment are becoming increasingly blurred. Now, before I say anything more, I believe there is a very important distinction to make between sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sexual assault involves physical contact and is absolutely wrong. A man should never touch a woman without her consent.

However, it seems that today, even complimenting a woman's appearance (especially if she is a stranger or distant acquaintance of the man and not a friend) could lead to being seen as creepy and in some environments (office, for instance) could lead to accusations of sexual harassment.

Here is my controversial, yet very simple assessment of the situation. If a guy approaches a woman and she thinks he's handsome, it's perfectly acceptable flirting. If a guy approaches a woman (and says the same things as guy #1) and she thinks he's ugly, then he's a creep and in some cases even a sexual "harasser." Creepy and confident have the same definition, except that creepy guys are ugly and confident guys are handsome. Thus, unattractive men that approach women in the office will risk losing their jobs, but attractive men will not (ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?). But, how can a male know if a female finds him attractive unless he approaches her? Perhaps women should start approaching men instead. This would resolve the problems.

Thoughts? Do you have any better way of distinguishing between flirting and harassment? Let's see it.

If a person is so lacking in subtlety that he needs
guidance in how to avoid being a creep, or how
to tell whether it is advisable to try flirting with
someone, there is no "advice" that is going to
help.

If you are a catch, they will approach you in any case.
If you are not, well, too bad.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
If a person is so lacking in subtlety that he needs
guidance in how to avoid being a creep, or how
to tell whether it is advisable to try flirting with
someone, there is no "advice" that is going to
help.

If you are a catch, they will approach you in any case.
If you are not, well, too bad.

I see you have no actual distinction between "creepy" and "confident". I rest my case. It is only dependent on the appearance of the guy.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It seems that nowadays the lines between flirting and sexual harassment are becoming increasingly blurred. Now, before I say anything more, I believe there is a very important distinction to make between sexual harassment and sexual assault. Sexual assault involves physical contact and is absolutely wrong. A man should never touch a woman without her consent.

However, it seems that today, even complimenting a woman's appearance (especially if she is a stranger or distant acquaintance of the man and not a friend) could lead to being seen as creepy and in some environments (office, for instance) could lead to accusations of sexual harassment.

Here is my controversial, yet very simple assessment of the situation. If a guy approaches a woman and she thinks he's handsome, it's perfectly acceptable flirting. If a guy approaches a woman (and says the same things as guy #1) and she thinks he's ugly, then he's a creep and in some cases even a sexual "harasser." Creepy and confident have the same definition, except that creepy guys are ugly and confident guys are handsome. Thus, unattractive men that approach women in the office will risk losing their jobs, but attractive men will not (ever notice that nearly all the male celebrities fired for sexual harassment are old and unattractive, and none of them look like Brad Pitt?). But, how can a male know if a female finds him attractive unless he approaches her? Perhaps women should start approaching men instead. This would resolve the problems.

Thoughts? Do you have any better way of distinguishing between flirting and harassment? Let's see it.

I think it's more a matter of the length of time or the number of times it happens. If a man attempts to flirt with a woman and she doesn't reciprocate, that may not break the barrier of harassment at that point. It's when he keeps going on and on when she's clearly not interested.

Of course, that can be sometimes confusing when women play hard to get, where they might pretend they're not interested but really are. These are the kinds of mixed messages that men might get, where "no means no - except when it means yes."

There are a lot of women who approach men; it's not unheard of. Sometimes women can be harassers, too. It may not happen as much, but it does happen.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I see you have no actual distinction between "creepy" and "confident". I rest my case. It is only dependent on the appearance of the guy.

Maybe you are a case, but
you dont have a case.

And "creepy" has far more to do with
behaviour than appearance. Call it creepy
or whatever name, a person who is not
attuned to how social interaction is done
is going to be disturbing to others.

And not at all appealing.

I'd say my comment about subtlety was lost
on you
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Some people don't know when to stop, or know to even not start, or where and when to draw the line. I freely admit I flirt with men and women, at work and away from work. I mean straight men. And they eat it up. Those are the only ones I do it with, and it has boundaries. I've made many-a-guy blush and giggle. For them it's a compliment. The women I work with know I'm just being me; they blush and laugh. I once said something to a former HR director that made her shriek and burst out laughing. She said "Y'know, only you can get away with that. Anyone else would be walking out the front door, but we know you and love you".

Warning --- Professional idiot on a closed course. Do not try this at home.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I think it's more a matter of the length of time or the number of times it happens. If a man attempts to flirt with a woman and she doesn't reciprocate, that may not break the barrier of harassment at that point. It's when he keeps going on and on when she's clearly not interested.

Of course, that can be sometimes confusing when women play hard to get, where they might pretend they're not interested but really are. These are the kinds of mixed messages that men might get, where "no means no - except when it means yes."

There are a lot of women who approach men; it's not unheard of. Sometimes women can be harassers, too. It may not happen as much, but it does happen.

All of this is so. The point here is as I tried to
point out to the opster, if a person lacks subtlety,
lacks skill / perception in social interactions, they
will be rebuffed.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Some people don't know when to stop, or know to even not start, or where and when to draw the line. I freely admit I flirt with men and women, at work and away from work. I mean straight men. And they eat it up. Those are the only ones I do it with, and it has boundaries. I've made many-a-guy blush and giggle. For them it's a compliment. The women I work with know I'm just being me; they blush and laugh. I once said something to a former HR director that made her shriek and burst out laughing. She said "Y'know, only you can get away with that. Anyone else would be walking out the front door, but we know you and love you".

Warning --- Professional idiot on a closed course. Do not try this at home.

Exactly. You have it, or you dont.
I am not a flirt, never cared to be.
Our friend seems to want a manual.
 

Rational Agnostic

Well-Known Member
Maybe you are a case, but
you dont have a case.

And "creepy" has far more to do with
behaviour than appearance. Call it creepy
or whatever name, a person who is not
attuned to how social interaction is done
is going to be disturbing to others.

And not at all appealing.

I'd say my comment about subtlety was lost
on you

I disagree. I watched a YouTube video where an attractive, muscular guy purposely messed up pickup lines and acted really nervous. Most women still gave him their number. I watched another video where a guy wore a hoodie and approached women and they all rejected him. Then he took off his shirt to reveal his muscular body and ripped abs and climbed into his yellow Ferrari. Over half of the women chased him and said "Oh, wait....." :D
 
Top