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Flaw in Assertion of God's Existence

Cacafire

Member
I completely understand the OP, but I am puzzled as to why we would debate a premise that seems blatantly false, or at least not obviously true. If your premise is not true, then your questions are nonsensical. It there is an omnipotent creator, what makes you think that he could not create a place with beings that can only experience him when he wants them to, for instance?

Becaue interaction is required for experience. If that was the case, then every time god wanted them to experience him, he would not be outside of them. If they are interacting with god, god is not separate from them.

If the christian maintains that god can interact with us, then no problem. But god would not be outside the universe, and thus would be able to be detected by science. There is nothing wrong with this.

I am simply pointing out the flaw of saying that god is outside the universe, but that he is also omnipotent. If god is apart from you, he can not affect you. That's the logical principle in effect here. I am only pointing out that the christian accepts the first half, but rejects the second.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
But if somebody does not accept it to be true, then they are not arguing that god is outside of the universe, and thus god is perfectly within the bounds of science, no matter what christians want to make of it.
And if God is all things --and that includes the unvierse, science, and your ability to study things like science --where does that put your ability to study God?
 

Cacafire

Member
And if God is all things --and that includes the unvierse, science, and your ability to study things like science --where does that put your ability to study God?

Precisely with the universe. But I'm not saying that god does not exist. I never did.
I was simply pointing out the flaws of saying that God is outside the universe, but allowing divine intervention.

If god is the universe, well, I never claimed to find a flaw with that.
 

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Thank you, popeye. Your two second inspirational words has shown me the error of my ways. I realize that god is real now. The christian god too. I am forever in your debt.

No problem the original argument really wasn't worth the time I pujt into it, but . . . . . hey.

Regards,
Scott
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
This assertion relies upon the scientific observation that an object separated from a system, can not be accessed from within the system. It is true, and thus christians are correctly using scientific arguments to further their cause.

But, this same assertion ignores the obvious result of that same scientific principle. If an object is outside of a system, then not only can it not be accessed by something inside the system, but it can not access anything inside the system as well.
Show it to be the "obvious result."
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
Regardless of where the universe is, God would have to be in contact, and not outside, whatever he is affecting.
But in order to "experience" the unvierse, by your definition, you would have to be the thing apart from it.

And if you can be, why not God?
 

Charity

Let's go racing boys !
No. The christian advances the argument that god is outside the universe. Not I.
What Christian? not I, Nor have I ever been asked this question by anyone or on a survey, neither has any one I know, so you cannot be speaking for all Christians.....:confused:
 

Cacafire

Member
What Christian? not I, Nor have I ever been asked this question by anyone or on a survey, neither has any one I know, so you cannot be speaking for all Christians.....:confused:

If you have not advanced this argument. Then you should pay heed to the flaws put forward in the OP, and not start making the argument any time soon.
 

oldcajun

__BE REAL
<<This assertion relies upon the scientific observation that an object separated from a system, can not be accessed from within the system.>>

An object in your case is a material substance. God is not composed of a physical or material substance. He did create material substance/mass and energy. He can function within his own creation at will without any scientific observation since science is limited to the physical/material plane of existence. You're still trying to bring the Creator down to the level of man's science. It will not work, He stands outside and above all scientific principles.
 
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