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Flaw in Assertion of God's Existence

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Cacafire, Jul 17, 2008.

  1. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    Becaue interaction is required for experience. If that was the case, then every time god wanted them to experience him, he would not be outside of them. If they are interacting with god, god is not separate from them.

    If the christian maintains that god can interact with us, then no problem. But god would not be outside the universe, and thus would be able to be detected by science. There is nothing wrong with this.

    I am simply pointing out the flaw of saying that god is outside the universe, but that he is also omnipotent. If god is apart from you, he can not affect you. That's the logical principle in effect here. I am only pointing out that the christian accepts the first half, but rejects the second.
     
  2. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    And if God is all things --and that includes the unvierse, science, and your ability to study things like science --where does that put your ability to study God?
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Nonsense.
     
  4. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    No. The christian advances the argument that god is outside the universe. Not I.
     
  5. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    Precisely with the universe. But I'm not saying that god does not exist. I never did.
    I was simply pointing out the flaws of saying that God is outside the universe, but allowing divine intervention.

    If god is the universe, well, I never claimed to find a flaw with that.
     
  6. Popeyesays

    Popeyesays Well-Known Member

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    No problem the original argument really wasn't worth the time I pujt into it, but . . . . . hey.

    Regards,
    Scott
     
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  7. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    No... that puts you (them) apart from the universe.
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Show it to be the "obvious result."
     
  9. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    Regardless of where the universe is, God would have to be in contact, and not outside, whatever he is affecting.
     
  10. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    No, some people advance that.
     
  11. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    But in order to "experience" the unvierse, by your definition, you would have to be the thing apart from it.

    And if you can be, why not God?
     
  12. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    In no empirical observation has an element outside of a system been able to affect that system without interacting with that system.

    Logically, it's obvious. Empirically, it is observed.
     
  13. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    What does that have to do with the supernatural?
     
  14. Charity

    Charity Let's go racing boys !

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    What Christian? not I, Nor have I ever been asked this question by anyone or on a survey, neither has any one I know, so you cannot be speaking for all Christians.....:confused:
     
  15. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    That is an assumption I did not advocate.
     
  16. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    If you have not advanced this argument. Then you should pay heed to the flaws put forward in the OP, and not start making the argument any time soon.
     
  17. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    If you would kindly define "supernatural" then I would gladly show you.
     
  18. Willamena

    Willamena Just me
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    You claimed that interaction (presumably between two objects) is necessary for experience. Can someone experience a system? Can someone experience the universe?
     
  19. oldcajun

    oldcajun __BE REAL

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    <<This assertion relies upon the scientific observation that an object separated from a system, can not be accessed from within the system.>>

    An object in your case is a material substance. God is not composed of a physical or material substance. He did create material substance/mass and energy. He can function within his own creation at will without any scientific observation since science is limited to the physical/material plane of existence. You're still trying to bring the Creator down to the level of man's science. It will not work, He stands outside and above all scientific principles.
     
  20. Cacafire

    Cacafire Member

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    You claimed interaction implies separateness.

    I did not.
     
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