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"First They Came..."

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by Debater Slayer, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    This is more of a personal experience than a debate per se, but since I figure it has a good chance of becoming one, I put it here instead of Journals.

    A few years ago, I met an Egyptian American in an atheist group online. We became fairly casual friends, catching up from time to time. She's very anti-religious and especially anti-Islamic, so she was more in favor of Trump than Hillary Clinton in 2016.

    Back then, when the subject came up in one of our conversations, she told me I was wrong to prioritize other countries over the U.S. as someone aiming for immigration. As she exactly put it, "I know Mexicans and Cubans who voted for Trump. Nothing has changed during his presidency."

    Fast-forward to yesterday, she messages me to catch up, as we mutually do on occasion. I asked her how she was doing, and she said she was "stressed and exhausted" and then talked about how much she disliked the GOP and the current SCOTUS. She had to move from California to a red state for the lower costs of living, so she's now in a state that is set to ban abortion.

    She feels she's unable to get into a relationship because, as her family are conservative Muslims, even a 1% chance of unwanted pregnancy despite using protection and contraceptives could be disastrous for her--hence her eventual resentment of the GOP and their SCOTUS picks.

    I merely said I was sorry she was going through that and expressed support, but I was also reminded of the "First They Came" poem.

    This is what can happen when someone supports oppressors merely because they dislike the targets of oppression. They may well end up being a target themselves.
     
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  2. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Hillary Clinton looks a better option in hindsight
     
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  3. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    Which says a lot considering how dishonest, hawkish, and morally bankrupt she is.
     
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  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Trauma is often as multifaceted as it is deep. I wish your friend shalom.
     
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  5. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    The world is moving toward fascism. Look at the rise of far right parties around the world: France, the US, Hungary, Turkey...
     
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  6. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    Reminds me of an article I just read about various business people in the UK that publicly enthused about leaving the EU at the time of the referendum, dismissing concerns as part of "Project Fear." Fast forward to now and guess what - their businesses are on their knees and they regret voting to leave the EU. Naturally, I'm especially upset for those in the fishing industry...:rolleyes:
     
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  7. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    I think such things just tend to go in cycles. While there's a far-right threat in the places you listed, many other countries have moderate or liberal governments (e.g., Finland, New Zealand, and Germany). Even in France, a strong majority of voters snubbed Le Pen twice in a row.
     
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  8. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    LePen gained ground against Macron last election compared to previous.
     
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  9. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Compared to Trump, she is an angel
     
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  10. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    I know, but we shouldn't forget that Mélenchon also had a considerable number of votes. That Macron managed to beat Le Pen despite that and his own struggle with increasing disapproval says something.
     
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  11. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Leaderless Animal

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    The fact that she's popular enough to get that close is worrying, of course.
     
  12. Debater Slayer

    Debater Slayer Veteran Member
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    I refuse to consider anyone who voted for the Iraq War and supported that atrocity an "angel" even when compared to Trump. She's a lesser evil, but make no mistake: she's still a disgrace to any respectable leadership.
     
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  13. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    Welcome to the USA
     
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  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Some tangents....
    I don't fault SCOTUS for finding Roe v Wade unconstitutional.
    It was a weak decision IMO. But it appears that Trump's justices
    were selected for anti-abortion views. It appears that they lied
    about neutrality, objectivity, & stare decisis in order to pack the
    court with the specific goal of voiding abortion rights.

    This points to the usefulness of having decisions depend less
    upon the effects of a small group making such big decisions.
    One President can steer the country for several decades if
    they're lucky enuf to stumble upon the opportunity to name
    more than 1 justice. Having more justices would lessen the
    anomalous power we saw (& still see) Trump enjoy.

    Religion...
    Every justice is either Protestant, Jewish, or Catholic. The
    latter is especially dominant....6 of'm. Religion of a candidate
    is made known during confirmation, so it appears to be made
    a requirement.
    It seems hard to avoid a theocracy when one religion has the
    ability to rule over all others. Perhaps we need explicit
    representation on the court based upon the general population?
    Sure, it's a bad idea...but not as bad as Presidents & Congress
    requiring that all justices be Catholic or perhaps some other
    Judeo Christian variant.
     
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  15. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
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    He won purely to keep her out but a different story now,he is basically a president in name only.
     
  16. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    And moving at supersonic speed towards fascism...democracy gone. Within 10 years "everything" good (freedom) will be gone
     
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  17. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen her hind?
     
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  18. Heyo

    Heyo Veteran Member

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    I agree. We had, worldwide a long stretch of years with democracy on the rise. The question is how much the pendulum will swing in the other direction and how much destruction it will leave before we can turn it round again.
     
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  19. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    The republican Court gave us RvW, and the republican Court taketh away.
     
  20. Sand Dancer

    Sand Dancer Crazy Cat Lady

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    I wonder if younger women will be "lesbian until marriage," kind of like they were "lesbian until graduation" in college.
     
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