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Finding the Right Way through the eyes of Logic

Discussion in 'Abrahamic Religions DIR' started by john313, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    Finding the Right Way through the eyes of Logic

    God is One...
    So, The Truth is One...
    Therefore, All Prophets and Messengers must have taught One teaching; One
    Way; One Religion; the Religion of Nature...(a nameless religion)

    The important point to realise here is that there is only logically One
    teaching for ALL mankind. There's no reason for God to teach one thing to
    one people and another to others. You wouldn't teach one child to miss
    breakfast, whilst the other you preach its importance. Nor would God teach
    one people to eat pork and another not to. This is important to bare in
    mind. God is Just, and would NOT teach a different message with a different
    set of guidelines to different nations/generations/peoples.

    This purified teaching from The God (when I say "The God", I mean The
    Creator in the singular and not any undivine man-made idols), brought to us
    through His Prophets and Messengers, was to guide mankind out of ignorance
    and sin, and to help return them to the Garden of Eden (paradise) awakened,
    consciously submitting to The God, purified and cleansed.

    This purified teaching never came with a name, such as Budhism, Christianity
    or Judaism - these were names ascribed to the purified teachings brought to
    us by the Messengers and Prophets of The God.

    Submission to The God and earning a place in the Eden requires man to live
    in the Right Way, submitting to the Divine Will. The way to do this is to
    sacrifice the desires of the self/ego in order to follow the laws and
    statutes (guidance) of The God. Thus realigning our-selves/will with the
    Divine Will of God Almighty.


    Finding the True Laws

    So, we know how to get to paradise. We just need to know how to find the
    True Laws, which teach us the Right Way to live. If we only have a subset
    of the laws with which to follow, then quite logically, we can never attain
    true submission to God and won't enter paradise.

    The thing is there are many named religions out there, many of which embody
    a varying percentage of the True laws/teachings of The God (which
    incidentally is exactly what Allah means in arabic). If each of these
    man-named religions such as Budhism, Hinduism, Judaism and Christianity.
    still had their original teachings (in a book where appropriate) and
    untouched by the corrupt authorities, then we would see that the teachings
    of these divine guides were all the same*. (i'll explain the * a little
    later).

    However, as we are finding out slowly, none of these man-named religions are
    untainted by man. Christianity has entered idolatory by treating Jesus as a
    god (or part of god, or god incarnate), none of the original hebrew texts
    remain, only a corrupted greek version. Budhism too has raised Budha to a
    god status and their followers now worship him as such. The recent
    discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls would clear up many mistakes in the Old
    Testament, but the rabbi's refuse to make any more changes to the Old
    Testament. The original vedic books can no longer be traced back to any
    origin to be authenticated....

    The point being, why even bother with these? If the Message is the same,
    why not just take the latest version, which lies with Prophet Muhammad??
    Like you would any document you were picking up from a computer, you
    wouldn't pick up an old revision and start to work from that would you? The
    Qur'an is the latest "version" and contains amendments to where the past
    books of God have been corrupted. And God has promised this time that He
    will protect this book from corruption. This is significant seeing as this
    is the Final Messenger/Prophet, bringing the "whole truth", as prophesised
    by Jesus. This is not to say people cannot deliberately misinterpret the
    book in different languages. But, all muslims, will maintain that the
    original arabic Qur'an exists today in the same form that it did 1400 years
    ago. Unlike, where any Christian will tell you, many versions of the bible
    exist. History will prove this, much like history will prove that the
    Qur'an remains unchanged. This is why all muslims are recommended to learn
    arabic so that no-one can deliberately misinterpret through languages.

    However, this is not to say each man-named religion is totally wrong. They
    have just been corrupted. Truth still lies within each one, but to a
    varying degree. The only one that I can personally trust, after researching
    if the Qur'an has been changed or not, is the teachings in the Qur'an. And
    following that is the traditions which explain the actions/teachings of
    those who embodied the message. These are much the same as the biblical
    gospels which speak of the action and teachings of Jesus (peace be upon
    him). Infact, out of all prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, Jesus is
    mentioned the most. Anyway, that's a side note. But this is why people who
    are ignorant to the reality of the situation will claim that all religions
    are the same, they all teach one to be good to another or not to steal etc.
    This is because these parts haven't been corrupted and remain untainted in
    each of the man-named religions.


    The "Spirit" in the bible

    When i said before that all teachings were the same* for all prophets and
    messengers, this is true... However, the extent to which they would have
    gone into the details and intricacies may have varied. This is because
    mankind as a whole could not handle such a burden so early in it's
    progression towards awakenedness. Much like you can not just make a baby
    run at birth. Mankind could not suddenly be burdened with all the spiritual
    tasks at the start of Creation. These were to be added as mankind awakened
    further. We can see this before Jesus departs:

    "I have much more to tell you, but now it would be too much for you to bear.
    When, however, the Spirit comes, who reveals the truth about God, he will
    lead you into ALL the truth. He will not speak on his own authority, but he
    will speak of what he hears, and will tell you of things to come.", John
    16:12-13 NT

    So, when the "Spirit" comes the whole Truth would be told. This should tell
    us 2 things.

    1.) At the time when Jesus was there, preaching the Gospel and also when he
    left, mankind (and nowaday Christians following the bible alone) do NOT have
    the complete Truth as they were not ready to bear its burden then.
    2.) When the "Spirit" (Muhammad) comes to teach ALL the Truth, that is it.
    There will be no more prophets. The spiritual teaching "ends". Mankind has
    been given ALL it needs in order to wake up to reality and return to Eden
    awakened and submitted to God, through a NOW COMPLETE set of teachings.

    Many will say, but 5 times a day is too much a burden. This is WHY Jesus
    never taught this before. Because mankind just was not ready for this.
    They could not take on this burden. Even today, we find the same thing.
    People, due to their ties to this world, can not handle the burden of the
    self-sacrifice of praying 5 times a day. And they are the ones that remain
    asleep as they do not have the spiritual strength to wake up.


    Also, I'd like to re-look at this passage:

    "I have much more to tell you, but now it would be too much for you to bear.
    When, however, the Spirit comes, who reveals the truth about God, he will
    lead you into ALL the truth. He will not speak on his own authority, but he
    will speak of what he hears, and will tell you of things to come.", John
    16:12-13 NT

    The "Spirit" here is not the Holy Spirit, it's a man. It is obviously not
    talking about the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit was already with
    Jesus. So to say "when the spirit comes" would make no sense what so ever
    as "it" was already there! Lets analyse further, it says "He" will not
    "speak" on his own authority, but he will speak of what he "hears". These
    are physical senses of man, not a spirit and definately NOT the Holy Spirit.
    Furthermore, the original texts of the bible refer to the "Comforter" which,
    when taken back to the original hebrew is translated as "Ahmed". Ahmed, not
    conincidentally is the name of Prophet Muhammad, so there can be no mistake
    about who the "Spirit" is. Also, we know that Prophet Muhammad (sal), spoke
    only what Archangel Gabriel told him to speak - thus making the verses in
    the Qur'an. Which is a perfect match to the above description. And
    finally, we can see from the teachings themselves that they are from God and
    not man-made.


    Anyway, that's the end of where I want to take you. It is something to
    ponder upon. This should hopefully show you the logic behind following the
    latest, and final God given, religion, Islam. And this is not only because
    of it being most recent, but because it contains the WHOLE truth which no
    preceding teaching does as mankind was not ready yet. So to follow any
    without this one would be a mistake as it would not allow you to reach a
    high spiritual level or complete submission to The God (Allah). And
    finally, also, because, as far as I can tell it has not been corrupted,
    unlike other named-religions.

    If all the teachings of the Qur'an resided in the bible I would use the
    bible to teach you. Much like I do now for many Christians. I tell them
    but Jesus says you should do so and so. I don't say to them, but the Qur'an
    or Muhammad says you should do such and such.

    What is important to "me" is that mankind follows the True Teachings of God,
    regardless of the name of the religion (as there was no name in the first
    place) or where it is found. As long as it belongs to God, it is fine.

    So, find the True teachings and submit to them and you'll enter paradise. I
    just find it easier and most accurate in the teachings of Islam.

    I hope this makes sense, questions welcome.

    May Allah guide you all to the True teachings wherever you find them.
     
  2. Natural Submission

    Natural Submission Active Member

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    This is completely logical and reasonable, i agree 100%. i have a lot to learn about Islam, but everything i have studied has correlated completely with the Scriptures and the Prophets.
     
  3. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    It is good that you have noticed that. Islam teaches the message of all prophets of the One true God, without the Man-God, human sacrifice teachings of Paul of Tarsus.
     
  4. Natural Submission

    Natural Submission Active Member

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    Clearly the MAJOR thing that separates Islam and Christianity are the pagan teachings of Paul. The teachings of Jesus PERFECTLY correspond with Islamic teachings. The pagan blood sacrifice rituals and man-god worship indoctrinated by Paul, is clear proof that he is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
     
  5. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    I think the major difference between Islam and Christianity are Paul's teachings, they are quite pagan. Jesus's teachings correspond with Islam perfectly because that is what he taught, submission to God, not human sacrifice and a God-man. It is amazing how many people nowadays do not think human sacrifice is a pagan/satanic act. There are many quotes of Jesus where he warned against people like Paul. He even said if ANY man says here is christ or there, do not believe him. and what did Paul of Tarsus ad-dajjal say? he said christ lives in me (here is christ, in me). Jesus tells us not to believe Buloos ad-dajaal. Remember to use logic and reason when reading the bible, for it is plagued with modifications of deceptive men and translation errors, but it also has much truth.

    wa salaam
     
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  6. Natural Submission

    Natural Submission Active Member

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    For the most part i agree with you, but i would have to say Paul is responsible for the separation between Islam and Christianity. Paul taught man could be free from sin if they believe Jesus was a human sacrifice. Jesus never taught this, his teachings are Islamic in the sense that everything Muhammad said, Jesus said.

    Paul actually claimed to be Christ himself, thus making himself an antichrist, just as Jesus foretold. The majority of the books in the Bible were written by Paul, so one must approach the Bible with reason and logic or else one could be led astray.
     
  7. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    I must say...St. Paul never once claimed to be the Christ. I think yall are misunderstanding his teachings...

    When He says that he carries Christ within him, he is referring to the Christian teaching of salvation, which Christ taught. So, I think you are misunderstanding the Apostle Paul...
     
  8. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Lol No*s, this is pretty much what we've been arguing about in the orthodox vs gnostic thread (which i'm working on by the way), these folks interpret Paul as saying he is christ, you interpret him as saying he has christ's teachings within him - its all relative. They interpret it literally, you interpret it allegorically, so why then interpret jesus saying he is god as literal rather then allegorical?
     
  9. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    No, we both interpret it literally :p. It strikes me more as proof-texting of Paul's statements to create a boogey-man, and that's why I went ahead and posted. I think that they've been misinformed on his teaching (there are objectively false interpretations just as readily as there are true ones).
     
  10. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    :p i don't think its possible to have a false interpretation when it comes to religious subjects.
     
  11. Natural Submission

    Natural Submission Active Member

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    Jesus said clearly: "Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Messiah,' or, 'There,' don't believe it. For there will arise false messiahs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones." Matthew 24:23-24

    Paul said: "For in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel. Therefore I beseech you, be imitators of me." 1 Corinthians 4:15-16

    Paul claims that HE, not Christ had "begotten you." He "beseeches you" to be HIS followers, HIS imitators.

    Jesus said: "Many will come in my name, saying, 'I am the Messiah' and they will lead many astray" Matthew 24:5

    Yet what did Paul claim? "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Galatians 2:20

    Paul says it is not really "him" that you see, the "he" was crucified, and it is "not I but Christ" living in his body. He is claiming that he is essentially Christ, and for this reason he is superior to all of Christ's Disciples who opposed him at every turn.
     
  12. Natural Submission

    Natural Submission Active Member

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    These words NEVER came out of Jesus' mouth. He NEVER claimed to be God. Throughout his life he glorified God's greatness and prayed to God in perfect submission.
     
  13. No*s

    No*s Captain Obvious

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    You are misunderstanding what Paul is asserting. In Christian theology, Christ gives power that men may become "sons of God." He plainly states this repeatedly. We see this in the Gospel of Luke most famously, where Jesus said, "The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and are given in marriage. But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, fo rthey are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrectio." (Lk. 20.34-36).

    A similar sentiment is in Matthew, where Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God" (Mt. 5.9).

    Again, Jesus asserts that doing something to others is the same as doing that to Him: "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, `Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was hungry, and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' Then the righteous will answer Him saying, `Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe you? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' And the King will answer and say to them, `Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to oneof the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'" (Mt. 25.34-40). Christ, the King, asserts that those who are sick, needy, etc. are Him, and what we do to them we do to Him.

    Again, Jesus says, "Take, eat; this is My body." and "this is My blood" (Mt. 26.26,28). Why ingest Christ's Body? So that He can become incarnate in the person (not that the person is the Christ). To this point Christ says, "he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him." (Jn 6.56).

    That brings us back to Paul's statement that Christ dwells in him and works in him. Paul wasn't claiming to be Christ, but conforming to the teachings of Christ. I hope I've cleared up the Christian theology behind St. Paul's assertion there. He never said "I am Christ," but that Christ dwells in him, which is in perfect conformity to Christ's teaching that "he who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me and I in him."
     
  14. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    If this is true. Why is there diversity?
    Why is one cell of the body different than another? Each one has a divine purpose to serve the body as a whole. Different groups of cells can have completely different sets of 'rules'. But are the eyes better than the heart because they can see? Or are the lungs more important than the blood because they supply the oxygen that the blood needs?
    A person who lives in Africa will have a different diet than a person who lives in Hawaii. And their physical bodies will have adapted to that, so yes even dietary differences are understandable.
    I believe the diet suggested in the bible are quidelines on how to keep our bodies alive for hundreds of years like Moses. No eating pork does not have any major noticable effects but science says it causes negative effects over time, and shellfish are the filters of the sea, their bodies contain all the pollutents that they so diligently remove from our oceans. So I can see how it would effect your body, but it's so tiny, we don't notice, and don't really care. I love shrimp, and pork chops. So I cannot test my theory, however, it's what I think it's all about.
     
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