Finding like-minded truth-seekers

[PoetPhilosopher]

To reveal something about myself... I probably couldn't have a coherent discussion with many people, what with my stream of consciousness thought. My goals in the future are to expand my spirituality, to deepen it, while hopefully improving my ability to relate to everyone in the process. But my main focus is on strengthening my spirituality without just studying every religion (which may lead to confusion for me). I'm on a path to basically believe that atheists have some things right in everything but that God is real and that everyone basically goes to heaven (which is different than fundamentalist views). How would I go about finding people that either have similar struggles, or similar beliefs? This forum can be just big enough to get lost (not saying that in a real negative sense). So it's hard to tell who would be openminded to my ideas and communication style, or who I might unintentionally offend.

To sum it up, I sometimes "type liek dys" so to speak. People who read into it too much might get the wrong idea. Just kind of interested in meeting a few people who don't consider broken people in a negative way (or at least have the patience for them). Maybe our path isn't even to become deep friends, but to maybe read a few of the same books or give me some book recommendations for me to consider. Who knows.

 

[ChristineM]

Atheist : a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less. So i am confuses what you mean by

atheists have some things right in everything but that God is real

It doesnt make sense. Other than that, there are many different viewpoints on RF, the best i can suggest is just be who you are,

BTW, i am dyslexic, you could call that broken. Your "liek dys" had me looking in a german dictionary before it twigged.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Atheist : a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less. So i am confuses what you mean by

It doesnt make sense. Other than that, there are many different viewpoints on RF, the best i can suggest is just be who you are,

BTW, i am dyslexic, you could call that broken. Your "liek dys" had me looking in a german dictionary before it twigged.

I should probably explain that. Whenever I mention that I am like an atheist, or even want to be like an atheist, I take the view a few books state in saying, "(Philosophically speaking) Atheists are closer to the models of God than Christians." Before people get hurt thinking I have a negative view on Christians, well... I just consider that in order to find God, one has to give up religion. Then focus on whatever they hear from said God. And make it a process.

 

[sealchan]

To reveal something about myself... I probably couldn't have a coherent discussion with many people, what with my stream of consciousness thought. My goals in the future are to expand my spirituality, to deepen it, while hopefully improving my ability to relate to everyone in the process. But my main focus is on strengthening my spirituality without just studying every religion (which may lead to confusion for me). I'm on a path to basically believe that atheists have some things right in everything but that God is real and that everyone basically goes to heaven (which is different than fundamentalist views). How would I go about finding people that either have similar struggles, or similar beliefs? This forum can be just big enough to get lost (not saying that in a real negative sense). So it's hard to tell who would be openminded to my ideas and communication style, or who I might unintentionally offend.

To sum it up, I sometimes "type liek dys" so to speak. People who read into it too much might get the wrong idea. Just kind of interested in meeting a few people who don't consider broken people in a negative way (or at least have the patience for them). Maybe our path isn't even to become deep friends, but to maybe read a few of the same books or give me some book recommendations for me to consider. Who knows.

Put unkind people on ignore might be one easy solution. Then every thread with discussion would more relevant for you.

 

[PureX]

Until you learn to use words in a way that most other people will understand, I think you will be wasting your time, and theirs.

 

[ChristineM]

I should probably explain that. Whenever I mention that I am like an atheist, or even want to be like an atheist, I take the view a few books state in saying, "(Philosophically speaking) Atheists are closer to the models of God than Christians." Before people get hurt thinking I have a negative view on Christians, well... I just consider that in order to find God, one has to give up religion. Then focus on whatever they hear from said God. And make it a process.

Atheists come in all shapes and sizes, there is only one thing that gives them the atheist label and that is that they have no belief in god.

There are some on RF who say they were atheist but have now found god. It is my opinion that such a step change is highly unlikely. So perhaps they were not atheist but either agnostic or delusioned with a previous religion and rejected their god but never actually lost faith.

 

[joe1776]

This is just one practical suggestion. Realize that atheist, theist and agnostic are three labels which cannot cover a gazillion different belief systems. So, ignore those labels and find out what people think. They can probably sum it up in a couple of brief paragraphs. For example here's what I believe:

-- If a Loving Creator exists, that love is almost certainly unconditional. Since the Abrahamic religions don't seem to understand unconditional love, and they can't teach what they don't understand, I reject those religions.

-- If a Loving Creator exists and wants us to have free will along with moral guidance, then that guidance would be cross-cultural and extremely simple. Since I think conscience is exactly that, I regard conscience as the best evidence that a Loving Creator might exist. It isn't compelling evidence, but it raises the distinct possibility.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Until you learn to use words in a way that most other people will understand, I think you will be wasting your time, and theirs.

I just wanted to say that I read your post and it did sting a little lol. I thought to myself, "Writing skills are pretty important on getting your thoughts across, but I don't want that to be a main factor in what people think of me."

But either way, I happened to take a look at your post history and man, you come off as really intelligent, with great speech. There's always the chance you may never like my writing skills, but you seem like the type I would want to study a year just to debate with.

I'll try to stop throwing around words like "atheist" in general though, that are too broad to describe my thoughts (as pointed out by others).

 

[PureX]

I just wanted to say that I read your post and it did sting a little lol. I thought to myself, "Writing skills are pretty important on getting your thoughts across, but I don't want that to be a main factor in what people think of me."

But either way, I happened to take a look at your post history and man, you come off as really intelligent, with great speech. There's always the chance you may never like my writing skills, but you seem like the type I would want to study a year just to debate with.

I'll try to stop throwing around words like "atheist" in general though, that are too broad to describe my thoughts (as pointed out by others).

All we have to go on, here, are the words we use, and the context we give them. And even when we get pretty good at it, it's still very easy to accidentally misrepresent ourselves, or to accidentally misunderstand someone else. One of the things I pay a lot of attention to is how clearly someone is able to present their thoughts to me, in words, because that's a very good indicator of how clearly they were thinking those thoughts in the first place.

Taking the time to write well is the equivalent of taking the time to think well. The ideas have to be ordered sensibly in our minds before they can be expressed clearly and reasonably in strings of words on the screen for other people to read and understand. It's one of the big reasons I like to participate on these kinds of sites. Not only will reading the thoughts of others make me think better, and more broadly, but so will writing a coherent response to them. Even more-so, probably.

 

[Jim]

To reveal something about myself... I probably couldn't have a coherent discussion with many people, what with my stream of consciousness thought. My goals in the future are to expand my spirituality, to deepen it, while hopefully improving my ability to relate to everyone in the process. But my main focus is on strengthening my spirituality without just studying every religion (which may lead to confusion for me). I'm on a path to basically believe that atheists have some things right in everything but that God is real and that everyone basically goes to heaven (which is different than fundamentalist views). How would I go about finding people that either have similar struggles, or similar beliefs? This forum can be just big enough to get lost (not saying that in a real negative sense). So it's hard to tell who would be openminded to my ideas and communication style, or who I might unintentionally offend.

I would certainly be open to your ideas and communication style. I see a lot of truth and a lot to like in what people call atheism, and I have nothing against thinking that God is real, or thinking that everyone goes to heaven. My path is all about spiritual progress, and improving myself as a way of helping to improve the world. What I would offer is someone to talk to about what you're trying and hoping to do, and how to go about it.

 

[Audie]

I should probably explain that. Whenever I mention that I am like an atheist, or even want to be like an atheist, I take the view a few books state in saying, "(Philosophically speaking) Atheists are closer to the models of God than Christians." Before people get hurt thinking I have a negative view on Christians, well... I just consider that in order to find God, one has to give up religion. Then focus on whatever they hear from said God. And make it a process.

Should you care to actually understand what
an atheist is, drop the word, do not use it at all.

Look at it this way:
There are human beings on earth.
We just call them people.

Now, some people are really into flying
saucers. We could call them
"flying saucerists"
Some really believe in communiosm as
the answer to social ills.
Call them commies.

Are you an a-commie or, aflyingsacuerist?
Nah. You are just a person.

Some people go about believing in things
they cant see, hear or otherwise in any
way detect that they call "god". They
are theists.

I am not an a-theist. Or an a-flyingsaucerist.
I am just a person.

 

[Audie]

All we have to go on, here, are the words we use, and the context we give them. And even when we get pretty good at it, it's still very easy to accidentally misrepresent ourselves, or to accidentally misunderstand someone else. One of the things I pay a lot of attention to is how clearly someone is able to present their thoughts to me, in words, because that's a very good indicator of how clearly they were thinking those thoughts in the first place.

Taking the time to write well is the equivalent of taking the time to think well. The ideas have to be ordered sensibly in our minds before they can be expressed clearly and reasonably in strings of words on the screen for other people to read and understand. It's one of the big reasons I like to participate on these kinds of sites. Not only will reading the thoughts of others make me think better, and more broadly, but so will writing a coherent response to them. Even more-so, probably.

We appreciate the effort.

 

[Jim]

@AT-AT I don't know if I would qualify as a like-minded truth seeker or not. My path is all about spiritual progress, and what I call learning to know and love God. "Across my dreams, with nets of wonder, I chase the bright elusive butterfly of love." Also, sometimes I think of myself as the little drummer boy. I have no gift to bring that's fit to give a king. All I know to do is to play on my little toy drum, and hope to see Him smiling at me. That's one of my roleplaying games. Another role I used to play in Internet discussions was a man of La Mancha.

What have you been doing, and what have you thought about doing, to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality? Can you tell me anything about what's motivating you to try to do that? Do you think that there might be something in one or more of the religions that can help you with that? Outside of them? Both? Do you have any ideas about where to start? I've always learned the most and the best from some of the people who see my ideas and interests as being the farthest away from theirs.

 

[joe1776]

@AT-AT I don't know if I would qualify as a like-minded truth seeker or not. My path is all about spiritual progress, and what I call learning to know and love God. "Across my dreams, with nets of wonder, I chase the bright elusive butterfly of love." Also, sometimes I think of myself as the little drummer boy. I have no gift to bring that's fit to give a king. All I know to do is to play on my little toy drum, and hope to see Him smiling at me. That's one of my roleplaying games. Another role I used to play in Internet discussions was a man of La Mancha.

What have you been doing, and what have you thought about doing, to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality? Can you tell me anything about what's motivating you to try to do that? Do you think that there might be something in one or more of the religions that can help you with that? Outside of them? Both? Do you have any ideas about where to start? I've always learned the most and the best from some of the people who see my ideas and interests as being the farthest away from theirs.

Jim, do you make a clear distinction between spiritual progress and moral progress?

 

[Jim]

Jim, do you make a clear distinction between spiritual progress and moral progress?

I’ve never thought of calling anything “moral” progress.” I don’t think that a person’s religious or non religious label, or belief or non belief in God, says anything about their morality, if that’s what you’re getting at.

 

[joe1776]

I’ve never thought of calling anything “moral” progress.” I don’t think that a person’s religious or non religious label, or belief or non belief in God, says anything about their morality, if that’s what you’re getting at.

you define "spiritual progress," as "what I call learning to know and love God." But then you speak of chasing "the bright elusive butterfly of love."

To learn to know and love God is a solitary task. You don't need other people for that.
But to learn to love others obviously requires your connection to others. If you agree that atheists can learn to love then learning to love God and learning to love others. are two separate tasks. I would classify learning to love others, becoming a better human being, as striving for moral progress.

I'm wondering if I simply don't understand or if my question might help you clarify your thinking.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

@AT-AT I don't know if I would qualify as a like-minded truth seeker or not. My path is all about spiritual progress, and what I call learning to know and love God. "Across my dreams, with nets of wonder, I chase the bright elusive butterfly of love." Also, sometimes I think of myself as the little drummer boy. I have no gift to bring that's fit to give a king. All I know to do is to play on my little toy drum, and hope to see Him smiling at me. That's one of my roleplaying games. Another role I used to play in Internet discussions was a man of La Mancha.

What have you been doing, and what have you thought about doing, to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality? Can you tell me anything about what's motivating you to try to do that? Do you think that there might be something in one or more of the religions that can help you with that? Outside of them? Both? Do you have any ideas about where to start? I've always learned the most and the best from some of the people who see my ideas and interests as being the farthest away from theirs.

Sorry for the slight delay answering. I want to pick up a beginner's Philosophy book soon and study it carefully. Some of my inner thoughts are similar to Philosophical questions, so it might help me craft them. From there, I will think about how to approach subjects - whether in a more formal, or informal way. I feel like there are positives and negatives to both.

As for why I might think there is a God and such... Well, a being setting the universe into motion seems plausible to me, and I do feel... something... when I try to reach out to Him, even if that "something" is hard to put into words.

 

[Jim]

Sorry for the slight delay answering. I want to pick up a beginner's Philosophy book soon and study it carefully. Some of my inner thoughts are similar to Philosophical questions, so it might help me craft them. From there, I will think about how to approach subjects - whether in a more formal, or informal way. I feel like there are positives and negatives to both.

As for why I might think there is a God and such... Well, a being setting the universe into motion seems plausible to me, and I do feel... something... when I try to reach out to Him, even if that "something" is hard to put into words.

Here's how I'm understanding it now. You want to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality. One possible way you see of doing that is deep Internet discussions. You want to take away or learn what you can from them, and for that purpose you want to familiarize yourself with what people are talking about in those discussions. Do you have any ideas about how to find the kinds of discussions that might do you the most good? Or topics of your own that you might want to start? To familiarize myself with what people are talking about, first I try to understand it as well as I can, and I post friendly questions and comments to help me with that. Then if I have trouble making sense out of it, I search on the Internet for information that might help me understand it better. Then rinse, spin, hang out to dry, and try again.

"Spirituality" can mean such different things to different people that it doesn't communicate anything to me without knowing you better, or some examples of what you mean by it. Have you already had some experiences with expanding, deepening and strengthening your spirituality? If so, if you describe some of them, it might help me understand better what you want to do.

I've studied some philosophy. If you'd like someone to talk to about whatever book you decide to read, I would be glad to do that with you.

I've given up trying to decide if my God(s) exist(s) or is/are real or not. I have a feeling that He's real somehow, but can't find any way for that to have any consequential meaning. I don't think that I need to know, for any of my purposes. Once for a day or two in an atheist forum I was calling myself an apatheist. I don't care if God exists or is real. Then for a while I was an anytheist. God is whatever you need Him to be, to understand the scripture passage that you're currently reading. Sometimes that makes Him the imaginary creator, in an analogy of the world around us as being created by someone. Sometimes that makes Him the imaginary person that I'm in a relationship with, in an analogy between a personal relationship and my relationship with the world around me.

What do you know about what might be making you want to reach out to God?

Do you have any other ideas that you're working on about how to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality, other things to do, besides thinking about it and discussing it?

 

[Jim]

I would classify learning to love others, becoming a better human being, as striving for moral progress.

I like that way of thinking very much, if it's an accurate description of what a person is actually doing, consciously and continually, including the learning and becoming.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Here's how I'm understanding it now. You want to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality. One possible way you see of doing that is deep Internet discussions. You want to take away or learn what you can from them, and for that purpose you want to familiarize yourself with what people are talking about in those discussions. Do you have any ideas about how to find the kinds of discussions that might do you the most good? Or topics of your own that you might want to start? To familiarize myself with what people are talking about, first I try to understand it as well as I can, and I post friendly questions and comments to help me with that. Then if I have trouble making sense out of it, I search on the Internet for information that might help me understand it better. Then rinse, spin, hang out to dry, and try again.

"Spirituality" can mean such different things to different people that it doesn't communicate anything to me without knowing you better, or some examples of what you mean by it. Have you already had some experiences with expanding, deepening and strengthening your spirituality? If so, if you describe some of them, it might help me understand better what you want to do.

I've studied some philosophy. If you'd like someone to talk to about whatever book you decide to read, I would be glad to do that with you.

I've given up trying to decide if my God(s) exist(s) or is/are real or not. I have a feeling that He's real somehow, but can't find any way for that to have any consequential meaning. I don't think that I need to know, for any of my purposes. Once for a day or two in an atheist forum I was calling myself an apatheist. I don't care if God exists or is real. Then for a while I was an anytheist. God is whatever you need Him to be, to understand the scripture passage that you're currently reading. Sometimes that makes Him the imaginary creator, in an analogy of the world around us as being created by someone. Sometimes that makes Him the imaginary person that I'm in a relationship with, in an analogy between a personal relationship and my relationship with the world around me.

What do you know about what might be making you want to reach out to God?

Do you have any other ideas that you're working on about how to expand, deepen and strengthen your spirituality, other things to do, besides thinking about it and discussing it?

Your assessments of what I'm looking for, are probably all correct.

I remember reading in the Bible about I think it was Daniel, God came to Him and just started talking to Him? It isn't quite that way with me, nor do I consider myself some chosen prophet lol. But I feel like when God came to people in the Old Testament, there was always an element of surprise to people to what He had to say. And this may surprise you, but I feel Jesus *might* be a real mediator, yet I also feel like God doesn't weigh me down with the details of religion. I just feel more like it's a close human-human relationship. God doesn't go telling me things like, "Pray to my Son through the Holy Spirit so that it reaches the Father." He just says, "What's on your mind? Speak."

I talked to you about a forum I enjoyed 10 years ago. There were a couple of people with similar views to all of mine on there, and they were the friendliness, most free-spirited people I have met, if that means much. That's not to say people of other beliefs aren't friendly, they certainly are, or that the merits of a belief are always based on the coolness of their followers. But it's still cool and relatable to meet good people.

In regards to expanding my spirituality, I think it'd be interesting to "find myself" with the help of maybe a few or couple other people.