Final Authority

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The critical issue is salvation.

Catholicism teaches that salvation
is through the Catholic sacraments.

Not entirely. They also teach that God isn't bound by the sacraments, so he's free to save whoever he wants.

They also teach baptism of desire:

Baptism of desire - Wikipedia

 

[Wandering Monk]

Psalms 12:6-7 was written before 1611,
so was 2 Timothy 3:16.

I am not a 1611 only.
I believe all scripture is given by
inspiration of God.

Except when Paul wrote that, there were no New Testament texts written yet. Paul must have been referring to OT books. Problem is, the canon on the OT was not closed in Paul's day, so which books was he referring to?

 

[Katzpur]

Both Catholics and Mormons
have added books to the Holy Bible.

Sorry, pal, but the Catholic Bible existed before your Bible did. It was you who took books out of it. And the Mormons use the KJV, with exactly the same number of books in it as any other KJV.

 

[James2028]

This is exactly what happens when
I ask this question, no one answers.

What book are you calling " the bible " ?

 

[James2028]

Catholics (original only theory)
believe they do not have infallible scripture.

Baptists (purified text theory)
believe they have infallible scripture.

It is dishonest to call the contents
of any bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you believe
only the originals were infallible.

 

[sojourner]

I already know exactly what you mean.
A mystical non existent book, just like superstitious transubstantiation.

You know nothing. Least of all about transubstantiation.

 

[sojourner]

I've completed eighth year theology
courses at both Catholic and Baptist
Seminaries. There are two lines of Bibles, Syrian and Alexandrian. They do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

Bully for you. So what? Why do they “need” to match? Why can’t they stand on their own as differing canons?

 

[sojourner]

Please read the previous posts.

Psalm 12:6-7
6 The words of the Lord are pure words
as silver tried in a furnace of earth
purified seven times.
7 Thou shalt keep them O Lord,
thou shalt preserve them from
this generation for ever.


The Lord preserved his words,
not the church, and purified them
seven times.

The Psalm isn’t talking about the Bible.

 

[sojourner]

Catholicism teaches that popes
speak excathedra, infallible.
The precedence is given to
Codex Vaticanus with sitzimleben
hermeneutics.

Again: so what? What does this have to do with scriptural authority? Unless this is thinly-veiled Catholic bashing.

 

[James2028]

Bully for you. So what? Why do they “need” to match? Why can’t they stand on their own as differing canons?

Because they do not match
in content, volume or doctrine.

 

[sojourner]

The critical issue is salvation.

Catholicism teaches that salvation
is through the Catholic sacraments.

The scriptures teach that salvation
is by grace through faith alone.

The Catholics teach that grace is imparted, by faith, through the sacraments. Again, so what? Or is this another heretical, sola fide thing?

 

[sojourner]

They proclaim that maybe, but they don't necessarily follow it. Alot of Catholics almost fawn over the Pope, which btw is deeply heretical. Jesus is our High Priest. And Galatians 1:8-9 warns us that anyone declaring something contrary to the Gospel is under a curse! What do you think the Pope does every time they invoke papal infallibility?

Every time? It’s happened twice. And both times it was about Mary.

 

[sojourner]

This is exactly what happens when
I ask this question, no one answers.

What book are you calling " the bible " ?

asked and answered.

 

[sojourner]

Catholics (original only theory)
believe they do not have infallible scripture.

Baptists (purified text theory)
believe they have infallible scripture.

It is dishonest to call the contents
of any bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you believe
only the originals were infallible.

Verbal hocus pocus. The Baptists are wrong. The Catholics are not.

 

[sojourner]

Because they do not match
in content, volume or doctrine.

Yet again, so what?
(FYI) the Bible contains texts, not doctrine.

 

[James2028]

#1. There is no such thing
as " the bible " .

#2. There never was an original bible
consisting of the original autographs.

#3. It is dishonest to call the content
of any Bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you actually
believe only the originals were infallible.


.

 

[sojourner]

#1. There is no such thing
as " the bible " .

#2. There never was an original bible
consisting of the original autographs.

#3. It is dishonest to call the content
of any Bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you actually
believe only the originals were infallible.

Yes, yes. We’ve already sung Verse 3. No need to revisit. But this isn’t germane to the immediate exchange.

You know what? Just stop dancing around things and state your issue. I’ve heard salvation, authority, sola scriptura, sola fide, anti-Catholic rhetoric. Can you please just state plainly the issue you wish to debate — without the faux-academic nonsense — and let’s get on with it.

 

[James2028]

That is the issue for debate.
It is dishonest to call the content
of any Bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you believe
only the original autographs were infallible.

 

[sojourner]

That is the issue for debate.
It is DISHONEST to call the content
of any Bible infallible scripture given
by inspiration of God when you believe
only the original autographs were infallible.

I don’t operate under the misapprehension that the texts are infallible or consistent, or that they don’t contradict one another in places.

Why couldn’t you just say that? Why all the verbal gymnastics and faux-academic subterfuge? Why bring salvation, transubstantiation, sacraments, authority, anti-Catholic rhetoric, and heretical positions into it? They only serve to obfuscate.

And I thought you said there WERE no “original autographs.” Get a grip on the debate. We’ll all be much happier.

 

[sojourner]

I've completed eighth year theology
courses at both Catholic and Baptist
Seminaries. There are two lines of Bibles, Syrian and Alexandrian. They do not match in content, volume or doctrine.

A normal M.Div. Is three years. A doctorate two more. Do you have a doctorate? Or an M.Div? Or an M.T.?
I have one year of seminary study in an Episcopal seminary program and an M.Div. from an accredited D.O.C seminary, plus hours beyond, and ordinal standing in my denomination. That doesn’t count for much here. And it’s not cogent to your assertion.