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Featured Final Authority

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by James2028, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia
     
  2. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    Historically and logically Theology
    is the master university science.
    The central critical issue in academic
    Theology is final authority.
    The thesis and antithesis of final authority
    is Sola Scriptura vs. Sola Ecclesia.
     
  3. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I believe the Bible, God's Word is the final authority.
     
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  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    It's both.

    For example, if someone is using the KJV, and they are expecting a textual argument, or presenting an argument in that context, then the 'directness' should be followed, and then you have, how something must be interpreted.

    We encounter this with theological arguments, as, for example, the New Testament, says there is only One Lord, [for biblical believers.

    Now, using the KJV, we then would follow that format, without contradiction, (sola scriptura.

    However, in matters of interpretation, that are less literal, obviously a belief has to use interpretation, then this could be argued from other text, so forth.
     
  5. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    There are three positions
    in Bible canonization.
    #1. none of the original
    were infallible
    #2. only the originals autographs
    were infallible
    #3. purified text theory
     
  6. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    There is no such thing as " the bible " .
    There are hundreds of bibles
    which do not match in content,
    volume or doctrine.
     
  7. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    What tends to goof people up, is when they believe that the 'New Testament', is a type of 'separate bible', from the 'Old Testament'.

    The Bible, read as a whole, like the KJV, cannot be read, in that manner. The New Testament being 'more texts', after the 'Old Testament', yet they have to correlate.
     
  8. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    There is no such thing as " the bible " .
    There never was an original Bible
    consisting of the original autographs.
     
  9. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    You are going to get 'necessary interpretation'.

    In acts of the Apostles, Stephen relates 'circumcision', to Abraham;

    In Galatians, the Apostle Paul, does not relate the practice of circumcision, to Abraam.

    So, something must be interpreted, there.

    There should be a logical basis for interpretation, in other words, and not 'complete abandonment' of the context.
     
    #9 Desert Snake, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  10. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
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    What about when there was o Bible
    " 15FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,
    WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,
    AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES,
    OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES,
    HEAR WITH THEIR EARS,
    AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN,
    AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’"
     
  11. iam1me

    iam1me Active Member

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    Reason is the final authority. Scripture as we know it wouldn't exist without the church. And the church put forth arguments at different times to justify different canonizations - arguments that can be evaluated against modern day evidence. We can further evaluate those scriptures to look for errors that have crept in over time thanks to a wealth of manuscripts.

    I've personally read through most of the Ante-Nicene Fathers Series, and I learned a lot. They heavily relied upon scripture to make their arguments, even if at times they referenced works we don't generally recognize today. They also drew from Greek Philosophy, such as Plato. At times praising him and and other times drawing a distinction between Plato and Christianity.

    Tradition should be our starting place - we should seek to understand the arguments and positions handed down by the church. But once we've learned these arguments and positions, then we can begin to question their premises, evidence, and overall logic - and see if there aren't better solutions
     
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  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

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    There is, however, necessary correlation, no matter how reductionist you want to get.

    Theologically, I am an extreme reductionist, I correlate all my "theology", to one book of the Bible.

    If I read the New Testament, then in reductionist absolutism, you are going to have to know or read other books of the Bible. In non textual reductionism, you are going to have to know the same thing, to get religio-academic correlation.

    So, there really is a "Bible", that one must take into context.
     
  13. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    As elsewhere noted, believing things is what believrrs do.

    The white queen was able to believe as many as
    six impossible things before breakfast.

    Some of us, though, like to have a
    reason for belief.
    And
    Some of us are ready to change what we believe,
    given good and sufficient reason.

    Believers are stuck. Once believed, always believed.
     
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  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Ah but there us "God's Word", though no two believers
    agree on what it is.
     
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  15. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    The word ' bible " means book.
    What book are you calling " the bible " .
     
    #15 James2028, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  16. Deeje

    Deeje Avid Bible Student
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    The English word “Bible” comes through the Latin from the Greek word bi·bliʹa, meaning “little books.” This, in turn, is derived from biʹblos, a word that describes the inner part of the papyrus plant out of which a primitive form of paper was made. The Phoenician city of Gebal, famous for its papyrus trade, was called by the Greeks “Byblos.”

    In time bi·bliʹa came to describe various writings, scrolls, books, and eventually the collection of little books that make up the Bible. Jerome called this collection Bibliotheca Divina, the Divine Library.

    You need an accurate definition of what the Bible is before you begin to assess its contents.
     
  17. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    The Original Only Theory
    states that only the original autographs
    were infallible. Therefore what we have
    today are reliable N.T. Greek Texts
    and reliable language translations.

    There are over 24 N.T. Greek Texts
    which do not match in content,
    volume or doctrine.

    There are over 300 English translations
    which do not match in content, volume
    or doctrine.

    All of these texts are reconstructed.
     
    #17 James2028, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
  18. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Believe them all
    Let god sort it out.
     
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  19. James2028

    James2028 Member

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    The Purified Text Theory sorts them out
    and presents scripture given by inspiration
    of God to every generation.
     
  20. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Ah! So now we find out what the real topic is! :D

    I've been waiting for two pages! I feel like somebody just gave me noogees (head locked in someone's elbow and their fist ground into the top of my scalp).

    I sincerely believe that Audie has stumbled happily upon the most Biblical, the most canonical, the most authoritative position. I do admire the effort (in the OP) to be honest and to throw away corruption. Its in earnest and the love that is behind it is what is truly powerful about your post.
     
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