Feminism, Bad Boys and Masculinty

[Laika]

I think it is well established that our society's conception of masculinity emphasizes aggression, dominance and cold detachment from our emotions and that this negatively affects women as part of the male power structure and its ideology. This same pattern of social organization, personal behavior and beliefs also has self destructive consequences on men.

On a personal level, I find myself conflicted over whether to fit the "bad boy" stereotype and how to support feminism. On the one hand, there is something liberating and exciting about being the rebel, and I think the truth is that being the rogue is more exciting both to be and to be around. (your welcome to tell me I'm wrong). On the other hand, it contains the danger of embracing destructive and self-destructive conceptions of masculinity, as well as sexually objectifying women in which promiscuity and sexual conquest is a demonstration of male dominance. It doesn't help as a bisexual that most concepts of masculinity are often implicitly bi and homophobic either.

So I was wondering, in an ideal world what masculine self-concept would feminists suggest men aspire and live up to? Or better still would would a feminist bad boy be like to be around?

 

[JRMcC]

I think it is well established that our society's conception of masculinity emphasizes aggression, dominance and cold detachment from our emotions and that this negatively affects women as part of the male power structure and its ideology. This same pattern of social organization, personal behavior and beliefs also has self destructive consequences on men.

On a personal level, I find myself conflicted over whether to fit the "bad boy" stereotype and how to support feminism. On the one hand, there is something liberating and exciting about being the rebel, and I think the truth is that being the rogue is more exciting both to be and to be around. (your welcome to tell me I'm wrong). On the other hand, it contains the danger of embracing destructive and self-destructive conceptions of masculinity, as well as sexually objectifying women in which promiscuity and sexual conquest is a demonstration of male dominance. It doesn't help as a bisexual that most concepts of masculinity are often implicitly bi and homophobic either.

So I was wondering, in an ideal world what masculine self-concept would feminists suggest men aspire and live up to? Or better still would would a feminist bad boy be like to be around?

Props to you if you're able to act the "bad boy" part while also demonstrating a genuine respect for women

 

[Laika]

Props to you if you're able to act the "bad boy" part while also demonstrating a genuine respect for women

I'm sickeningly "nice", but the lust for adventure kicks in as my first bi crush was a (straight) bad boy. (dam!) But being around him was an enormous high so I'm trying to learn how to do it for myself.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm sickeningly "nice", but the lust for adventure kicks in as my first bi crush was a (straight) bad boy. (dam!) But being around him was an enormous high so I'm trying to learn how to do it for myself.

If you modeled this after Tyler Durden, I would find you to to irresistibly attractive. Even though he is a user, his total detachment from the herd and that which does not truly matter is incredibly sexy. But only if you go by the movie, because he does become more of a terrorist in the book.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And for all the wrong reasons and comical irony that explodes all irony meters, god he is so sexy in that movie.

 

[Laika]

If you modeled this after Tyler Durden, I would find you to to irresistibly attractive. Even though he is a user, his total detachment from the herd and that which does not truly matter is incredibly sexy. But only if you go by the movie, because he does become more of a terrorist in the book.

And for all the wrong reasons and comical irony that explodes all irony meters, god he is so sexy in that movie.

I watched a couple of YouTube videos, and I "know" that quiet, calm, dangerous voice in the back of my head. As much as I tell myself that I must be wrong, I seem to be on the right track. I must let go and try a little bit harder.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Fact: Bad boys do not have to objectify women to remain bad boys.

Like "bad girls" we can most certainly rebel against conformity and arbitrary customs of etiquette without brutalizing each other.

I'm a bad girl. A VERY bad girl. I've been mean, hyper-sexual, risky, and I have a destructive side (like smashing patriarchal constructs).

But I can still love and care for my family and friends and my circle of loved ones.

Much like the saying that good girls never make the history books. Bad boys...the ones who don't follow the paternalistic and chauvinist oppressive paradigm and choose to relate differently to women....make their mark too.

For the record, "nice" guys who ONLY are nice guys to feel entitled to a woman's body or to feel entitled to sex, are not actually nice at all. They perpetuate the notion that a person's time and attention and body is not under his or her ownership, but his as long as he follows some arbitrary rules of courtship.

Ya know...I'm a nice guy, so why aren't I getting laid or have a girlfriend? That whole story? Blech.

My feminism prefers men who don't pander for the purpose of getting laid. I despise Pick-Up Artist mentality. My feminism adores men who are fine with being friends OR lovers with women. Not to be friends for the purpose and end goal of getting a woman into bed.

And for the record, Brad Pitt as Tyler Durden makes a super wonderful specimen of a visual masculine beauty. Daaaayyyyyyyummmm....(women are visual too :-D)

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Bumping this up because heck if I know.

I think it is well established that our society's conception of masculinity emphasizes aggression, dominance and cold detachment from our emotions and that this negatively affects women as part of the male power structure and its ideology. This same pattern of social organization, personal behavior and beliefs also has self destructive consequences on men.

I do agree, though I think these constructs negatively affect men and women differently. It traps men and kills women, if I dared generalize.

On a personal level, I find myself conflicted over whether to fit the "bad boy" stereotype and how to support feminism. On the one hand, there is something liberating and exciting about being the rebel, and I think the truth is that being the rogue is more exciting both to be and to be around. (your welcome to tell me I'm wrong). On the other hand, it contains the danger of embracing destructive and self-destructive conceptions of masculinity, as well as sexually objectifying women in which promiscuity and sexual conquest is a demonstration of male dominance. It doesn't help as a bisexual that most concepts of masculinity are often implicitly bi and homophobic either.

As I'd stated in the thread before, a man can be rebellious while also refusing to play into the male aggressor stereotype. IMO, at least.

So I was wondering, in an ideal world what masculine self-concept would feminists suggest men aspire and live up to? Or better still would would a feminist bad boy be like to be around?

I love love love strong men. I despise men who walk into feminist spaces and feel hurt about being called out for perpetuating misogynist stereotypes. The thing is, in my experience, there are men who have become a part of the feminist discourse but suddenly act like they are more deserving of a piece of *** than non-feminist men just because they wear the hat. And again, in my experience, being called out on that entitlement of feminist brand-wearing leading directly to more piece-of-***-douchebaggery tends to result in a blowback harder than facing a hurricane in the Bermuda Triangle. The blowback can come in the form of threats, stalking, harassment at worst, and confusion/denial at best.

IMO, feminist bad boys aren't afraid of feminist women telling them to check their privilege at any time. As a parallel, if I walk into a racial harmony meeting, and somebody calls me out on something I said or did and I deny it or make it about my feelings on the matter, I'm committing the same attitude the rest of the dominant society does. It's doubly aggravating when making things about me as a white middle-class woman acts in such a manner within a space designed specifically for minority groups to have a voice.

This is what makes a feminist bad boy, a feminist rebel. One who doesn't fight back or cower at a woman standing for her equality, even and especially when it confronts his speech and behavior. If the feminist bad boy starts to harass or threaten or troll said feminist woman for calling him out, he's only perpetuated the problem in society and invaded a safe space where women were hoping to feel free.