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Fear the Lord?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Sunstone, Jun 25, 2005.

  1. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." (Matthew 10:28)

    Jesus fearlessly endured death rather than compromise his loyalty to the One with all power, Jehovah God. Yes, it is Jehovah who can destroy one’s "soul" (meaning in this instance one’s future prospects as a living soul) or can instead resurrect a person to enjoy everlasting life. What a loving, compassionate heavenly Father Jehovah is!so even if men kill us , it is nothing, because Jehovah has the power to resurrect us so why fear humans .

    At Matthew 10:28, Jesus warned his hearers to "be in fear of him that can destroy both soul and body in Gehenna." What does it mean? Notice that there is no mention here of torment in the fires of Gehenna; rather, he says to ‘fear him that can destroy in Gehenna.’ By referring to the "soul" separately, Jesus here emphasizes that God can destroy all of a person’s life prospects; thus there is no hope of resurrection for him. So, the references to the ‘fiery Gehenna’ have the same meaning as ‘the lake of fire’ of Revelation 21:8, namely, destruction, "second death

     
  2. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    The word often translated "fear" in the Bible comes from a Hebrew word that predominantly means "revere." The Latin root for the English word "fear" also has "revere" as the primary meaning. Awe, reverence and fear spring from the same word. We use them differently today, and this is the cause of the misunderstandings expressed in this thread.
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    Its Gods Justice that mankind should Fear if they are without Jesus. He is merciful, he loved us so much he provided us a way to stand befor him even though we are sinners and He is HOLY and Just. The bible makes it clear that if you are without Jesus when you stand befor him that you should be fearful.

    But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars-their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death." Revelation 21:8


    I dont think im "holy than thou" quite the oppisite, i know i have no chance of heaven without Jesus, its for that reason im so grateful for what Jesus has done for me. What do you belive Scott? that sinners shouldnt fear God if they are without Christ? That things will be fine either way for them when they stand befor God, That its not that big of a deal if somone does or dosnt belive in Jesus as their savior? I see God as a God of Love, he loved us so much that he was crucified for us. The very fact that Jesus had to go through what he did demonstrates to us Gods Justice. We cant have any sins to our name if we are to stand befor him we need to be righteous and none of us can do that without Jesus as the bible makes clear.

    This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished- he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. Romans 3:22-26

    What do you think verse's like the the ones i posted are in the bible for?


    You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name. Exodus 20:7

    It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:31

    by the fear of the LORD one departs from evil Proverbs 16:6

    I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. Luke 12:4-5


    Do you think that we should be in awe is all these verse's are trying to teach us?
     
  4. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Super! Me too.
    Oooh.... now you are talking about only sinners... hmmm, I could have sworn you said "Mankind in its present state should fear God. "..... oh that's right... YOU DID.
    I'm not sure you'd care what I think..... if it's not what YOU think.... I think Christ died for me out of LOVE..... and I worship him as an adopted son .... not as a fearful wretch... but to each his own I always say.
    Again Steve, what I think does not matter..... I can show you just as many verses that show God as loving and merciful.... I don't care to play the Protestant "bible quote" game...

    ... continue to preach fear... and I will continue to preach about the mercy of God who became man and died for all, because he loves us all.

    Peace in LOVE,
    Scott
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    oh ok how many people do u know that havnt sinned and dont need Christ as their savior?

    I too belive Christ died for me out of Love, also i no longer need to fear God the way i should have befor i was a christian but only because i know what Jesus has done for me, however i am fearful for my friends and family who are without Christ.

    Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. 2 Corinthians 5:11



    Id agree with the verses that show God as loving and merciful, i will preach both, the fear of God and the Love and Mercy of God, if its done in context and out of love then there is no problem - im not saying i agree with ppl who go around saying "turn or burn" but fear does have its place and we would all be foolish to disregard the warnings of God as im sure you would agree?

    Also if you really belive that people without Christ shouldnt fear God then id really like to know what you think those verse's are trying to teach us?
     
  6. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    Many famous de-converted Christians, including the famous Charles Templer, gave the reason that they could not understand or cannot logically reason out the loving God and the feared God. If the bible would have translated correctly right from the beginning using the word revere, as well as not evangelizing preaching fear, I believe the Christian number would have quadripled:D
     
  7. Pah

    Pah Uber all member

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    Well Scott knows me. I haven't sinned so I have no need of a savior.

    I appreciate your thoughts but I really have no fear of dying. You see that comes about when you know there is no afterlife.
     
  8. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    I wonder if a neurobiologist would find that different circuits in the brain are used for fear and reverence? IF so, then there would be a clear biological basis for making the distinction between fear and reverence.
     
  9. gail

    gail New Member

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    "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" Proverbs 1:7
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Shall we put this into some Biblical context???

    Proverbs 9:10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
    and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
    NIV

    I John 4:16 God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. 17 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. NIV

    Fear is a good and essential place to start, but I wouldn't want to stay there. :D

    As for being "holier than thou", I must admit to being among the worst of sinners. God doesn't deserve the likes of me, and I surely don't deserve God's grace. That he has forgiven my multitude of sins makes me love him that much more. Jesus died for me while I still hated him... there is obviously nothing I can do to seperate me from his love.
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen ... now THIS is what I'm talking about!:D
    Amen and amen! We sinners were converted by the LOVE of God... not the fear of God.... I just wish more would preach and teach love like you ND... Blessings.

    Scott
     
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  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    One question though, Scott (or NetDoc) - I agree wholeheartedly with what you two have said, and agree on; however, as a sinner (and one who despite efforts to desit carries on sinning), I feel unworthy of G-d's love.

    I am sure my thiking is flawed, but where ? - could you tell me where I am going wrong?:)
     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Michel,

    You ARE unworthy of God's love. So am I. So is Scott.

    Romans 5:6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. NIV

    and

    Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:
    "For your sake we face death all day long;
    we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NIV

    You know, I just love the way the Bible explains itself. :D
     
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Hi Gail; Namaste.

    I notice that this is your first post on the forum, and would suggest that you introduce yourself on a new thread on Are you new to ReligiousForums.com ; so that we can all welcome you properly.

    You might like to have a look at :- Articles for New Members ; from there, there is a link to the forum rules, which you might also like to see.:)
     
  15. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Hehe... bless you my friend.... humility is the key the the kingdom of God in my opinon.

    Like my pal ND stated so well, we are ALL unworthy of God's love....that's what made the sacrafice of Christ so amazing.... not only did God become man, not only did Christ humble himself to die on the cross... he did so as a FREE gift for sinners.

    He did not die for the "elect"... he did not die for the "holy one's"... he died so we could ALL be free.... and THAT my friend, is a gift NONE of us are "worthy" enough to receive.

    You're thinking is not "wrong"... it's exactly right... it's when we realize that we are sinners and will continue to sin, that the need for Christ is truly realized:

    NO ONE is good enough.... no "law" will save you..... no "science" will save you... no amount of doing good deeds will save you.......... nothing............

    .... except for Christ.

    ;)
     
  16. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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  17. Christopher Krajewski

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    The fact of his somehow being or having been in the world makes God available for giving me personal strength; so why should I be afraid of Him. It's that judgment that I cannot perform as well as I think I could. It's his judgment which counts in the end; but judge myself often a sinner; I should be able to accomplish more without the delusion.

    The judgment is distilled down to having it in me upon me. The judgment therefore which I make is considerably that I could be at the devil. So I cleans myself of SIN. That's when the fear of God becomes effective, for that way the judgment in me becomes strong and true.

    The courage to judge the right things is for telling difference. Thus the action is more valuable than just mere words.:D
     
  18. AdamWes

    AdamWes New Member

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    I should have asked for evidence why religion is not created by man.
    If you study any group of people, whether it was the ancient Babylonians or pacific islanders they all have a story of creation, they have a deity or list of deities that they fear. These "stories" while beautiful and important for each of their cultures, was made to serve a purpose. People need answers. Its what separates us from everything else on this planet. Religions of the world are there to answer our tough questions, the ones we cannot answer with any certainty. Before man advanced, religion helped explain everyday events like lightning, rain storms, weather. It explained fire, and other "gifts" from above.
    As man advanced, and learned more from the world around him, these gave way to different beliefs. Focusing more on philosophical questions of "what comes next?" and "what is our purpose?" Beyond that, as societies emerged, the need for law and respect for human life was introduced. Religion was absolutely necessary. No doubt about it. What Im suggesting is that, with a background understanding of what is right and wrong, we dont need religion anymore, we just need God. Whoever he or she or they may be. Maybe I should qualify it and say those that are ready dont need religion anymore. The people of this world who know the difference between right and wrong. I absolutely believe that the Bible, while also beautiful and important to study, is a piece of literature. God does not speak to us through books. Science is the language of God. Any time spent trying to learn the complexities of the human body should stir this feeling inside you. I even feel it when I eat a really good orange sometimes.
    With so many different "religions," it is clear that there is of course, not one that is "right," or the ONLY path. That would be an insanely ignorant and megalomaniacal viewpoint. "Everyone else is wrong and may go to my religion's idea of Hell because they dont believe what I believe." I believe if there was a true path it would be universal, being that God or, to others gods, created all of us. We would all believe the same thing. And of course if we all believed the same thing there never would have been wars carried out in his name, the world would be a much better place, with a lot more love. Something I believe God would truly wants. Something I hope God really wants.
    So to get back to topic. They tell you to fear God because they dont want you to do something you will feel guilty about. Its smart. It is control. It is a support system. It is necessary for a lot of people. I dont believe in man made religions anymore, I believe in God. I dont go around killing those that stand in my way. I try to be as honest as I can in the world we live. I try to do good. I try not to lie. I am human, I will fail. But I dont think God will punish me. I do think he forgives, but it is more important for us to forgive ourselves, and learn, always learn.
     
  19. AdamWes

    AdamWes New Member

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    How can you say something like that? That kind of statement breaks my heart. Its saying that being a good person doesnt matter. The best parts of human advancement (science) dont matter. Not breaking the law and respecting right and wrong doesnt matter. Not believing that you have any control in finding your own peace, your own happinness in this life or the next...
    Why are we here if its such a general answer to everything?!?!? What is our purpose? How does religion answer that question. I will not accept to serve God as an answer.
     
  20. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    .... Adam, all that writing, and yet you managed to avoid answering my questions from page 1.

    :confused:
     
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