1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Fear of homosexuality

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Wasp, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    6,169
    Ratings:
    +2,174
    Religion:
    personal development and community service, with love for nature
    I was thinking the same thing, They might need help to face their same-sex feelings and impulses, but I all I could think of to say in public is what I said about showing our feminine side more. I didn’t want to say anything in public about being more honest and open about our same-sex feelings and capacities, and what we sometimes did in middle school.
     
  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Ratings:
    +9,262
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    I think I understand the reason, but its going to take a few lines to explain. Marriage is a mysterious topic for many, and its not well explained in the biblical canon which many of us take as not merely authoritative but revelatory. We ponder the meaning of marriage and wonder at the gravity with which Jesus speaks about divorce and marriage. There is unfortunately not a lot that he says, nor do most people look up and understand his source text in Deuteronomy or the reasons for the laws he discusses, and many of us never do marry. We are often strangers looking into a matter which eludes us, but we feel it must be awfully important to get it right.

    It is often felt that the purpose of marriage is to teach the lesson of God's love or some other supreme lesson and that it has some kind of imminence above other human endeavors. There is also a superstition about homosexuality arising from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah's destruction, that it will bring destruction, that it is dangerous.

    Most of these concerns are benevolent yet manifest themselves maliciously. They can be treated sometimes with education and an understanding of both marriage and study, however they often become aggregated with other concerns such as the concern of an invisible nemesis seeking to damage Christianity and its people as much as possible, namely Satan. Maybe to some people this sounds hard to believe, but I assure you its the case.
     
  3. calm

    calm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    462
    Ratings:
    +140
    Religion:
    Natsari
    Psalm 14:1
    The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
     
  4. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian
    You have just made a huge blanket statement in an attempt by association to smear millions of people.

    There are a few people in any large group who have fear of spiders, dust motes, open spaces whatever. So, no doubt there are some who fear homosexuals.

    However, I have never met a Christian who fears homosexuals. I don`t fear them, why should I, they are no threat to me.

    A narrative is agreed on, it is continually built upon, resulting in an erroneous generalized bit of blather like your post.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2018
    Messages:
    15,571
    Ratings:
    +7,807
    Religion:
    None
    Oh well that settles it!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +844
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    Jesus looks at marriage from ascetic point if view, saying avoiding it in the name of entering the Kingdom. OT, instruction given to specific group of people to cultivate a special nation, healthy spiritually and physically.
     
  7. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,078
    Ratings:
    +2,341
    Religion:
    Baha'i inspired liberal
    Do you believe people who practice monogamous gay relationships should be stoned or subjected to lashes?
     
  8. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +234
    So long as they don't have intercourse publicly they're safe. Same applies to other people - everywhere. Sex - >in the house, close the curtains.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  9. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +234
    Where did I do that what you say in my post?
     
  10. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +234
    What kind of feminine side?
     
  11. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    955
    Ratings:
    +234
    Because only a portion of those who are gay are because of that 'aggressive' toward gay people. They may just as well be more sympathetic to them.
     
  12. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2012
    Messages:
    27,561
    Ratings:
    +9,262
    Religion:
    Liberal Christian
    I must respectfully and emphatically disagree. Torah guarantees sexual rights for wives but not for men, so men put these rights into their marriage contracts then divorce if the woman won't have sex or won't do it in the way he prefers. This is what Jesus conversation is about. This must be the subject Jesus addresses when he says that some have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom: they are married but not getting the sex they want. Jesus cannot advise breaking the first commandment, for to become a eunuch purposely is to break the first commandment which is to reproduce. The question being debated is what to do if the woman won't perform sexually or in a satisfactory manner. Shouldn't she be divorced for that? It is a longstanding disagreement, and Jesus picks a side -- the romantic side.

    Jesus says that a man not loving his wife is committing adultery, which raises concerns for those listening. Torah says that if a man doesn't love his wife he may not then hold her in bondage through marriage and must give a divorce. This ideally prevents marriage from becoming a tool of enslavement. Torah says nothing about what to do if the woman doesn't perform sexually. Is he still then to keep her? What should he do? She is protected from bondage to him, but must he continue to carry her on his back? Well if he doesn't love her then he's required to give her a get...but Jesus says that not loving her is adultery. Hence Jesus has made marriage a much more complex task. Meaning if the woman won't perform sexually the man should still love her, anyway.

    He may also be addressing some more difficult subject, but it is impossible that he would openly teach against the first commandment of reproduction. For him to actually be saying that becoming a eunuch was somehow beneficial to the kingdom he'd be teaching to break the Torah, specifically the first commandment which was to reproduce. It can't be, so don't get lost in the semantics. Eunuchs can have a place in the kingdom that is better than a family name, but their position is not what Jesus is suggesting. He's not saying you should be single or cut your balls. Notice the people in conversation do not like what he says as they think it would make marriage insufferable. They are taking the position of the school of Shamai or similar, whereas Jesus is taking the position of the school of Hillel or similar. They know he's not talking about cutting their balls of or staying single. He's talking about sticking with the woman through her problems.

    Many people don't look into the laws he's discussing and come away with various extreme opinions. "You can't remarry after you are divorced." "No divorced people may go to church with us." "Marriage is God's representative of his love for the church, so if you mess it up you're damaging the church." These are all real opinions I have either held or encountered. Another one is Justin's, who decides that sex is evil. Its very sad.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian
    In rereading your post, I find you used the word some, so that qualifies your post somewhat.
     
  14. Scott C.

    Scott C. Just one guy

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    2,901
    Ratings:
    +668
    Religion:
    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
    Personally, I don't fear homosexuality. I believe homosexual acts are a sin, as I believe pre-marital and extra-marital sex is a sin. I don't fear those either. If I meet a heterosexual couple living together, but not married, I don't think much of it. They don't scare me, bother me, or offend me. I feel the same about gay folks. Honestly I spend more time thinking about my own sins and how I should repent and improve than I think about telling others what I think they should do.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian
    Actually wasn`t it Paul who said to avoid marriage, if you can ?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  16. JJ50

    JJ50 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2015
    Messages:
    2,449
    Ratings:
    +1,162
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    What is wrong with gay sex or premarital heterosexual sex in a committed adult relationship? We were pleased that our two married daughters lived with their partners first before getting married.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian
    Excellent response. I have enough problems dealing with my own sin, judging those of others is way above my pay grade
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  18. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian
    The standards of God are perfectly clear on this matter.

    Reject the standards, fine, your choice.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +844
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    Israel means 'man who sees God', Abraham was chosen (archetypically) because he did see God, God promised to produce the people from seed of Abraham. This one side, literal, of Torah transforming Cain consciousness, into consciousness capable comprehend empathy.
    yes, Jesus said:

    "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” it is not for everyone but it us what ultimately desirable. similar to eastern practices to enhance transcendental meditation results, as well as fasting.
     
  20. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,509
    Ratings:
    +844
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    yes, Paul too, same theme.
     
Loading...