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Fatihah, show me your proof of Islam

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A quote from Fatihah from another thread "Response: The existence of Allah(God) can easily be proven. About as easy as proven that 2+2 is 4. Yet I, nor anyone for that matter, is responsible for the clear denial of atheists to the fact. If you're interested of proof that there is a God, perhaps you can post on similar threads on the topic or create a new one, and I 'll be happy to address you there."

As you requested, here is my thread. I will not really debate with you, I will mainly just reply with whether I think your proof is convincing or not. I am Agnostic leaning towards Atheisim.
 

Eliot Wild

Irreverent Agnostic Jerk
If somebody has undeniable proof of God/Allah, I would love to see it also . . .

Therefore, I am bumping this thread as well.
 

MSizer

MSizer
Just because you say it is not so does not make it not so. Until you prove there is a greater book than the koran what you say is not so.
 

no-body

Well-Known Member
I predict the Muslim stock answer: "everything has to come from something" and of course ignoring any attempts at answering "well then where did Allah come from?" if God could come from nothing, why can't the universe have always been?
 

Sententia

Well-Known Member
About as easy as proven that 2+2 is 4.

Hee hee...

This brings me back. So one day I am learning fractions. I can't remember what grade I am in, I am guessing 3rd or 4th....

So my teacher is teaching me 1/3 = .333333 Forever....

Forever.

This is hard for me to grasp at the time. So I ask how do you add forever? What is 2/3?

Easy.... .66666 forever....

Now I thought I was getting the hang of it.... So 3/3 is .999999 forever.

No.

I was told 3/3 is 1.

Why I asked?

If 1/3 is .333 forever and 2/3 is .666 forever then why is 3/3 not .9999 forever?

Its just the way it is.

WTF man?

2+2=4 or is 3.999 forever?

Discuss. :D
 

Kerr

Well-Known Member
Hee hee...

This brings me back. So one day I am learning fractions. I can't remember what grade I am in, I am guessing 3rd or 4th....

So my teacher is teaching me 1/3 = .333333 Forever....

Forever.

This is hard for me to grasp at the time. So I ask how do you add forever? What is 2/3?

Easy.... .66666 forever....

Now I thought I was getting the hang of it.... So 3/3 is .999999 forever.

No.

I was told 3/3 is 1.

Why I asked?

If 1/3 is .333 forever and 2/3 is .666 forever then why is 3/3 not .9999 forever?

Its just the way it is.

WTF man?

2+2=4 or is 3.999 forever?

Discuss. :D
Math... who needs philosophers to confuse people :p?
 

Fatihah

Well-Known Member
The proof of there being a God, or deity, or whatever name a person uses to identify the supreme being responsible for the creation of the universe, life itself, and all that exists to begin with, is based on one simple fact. That being, that it takes intelligence to create intelligence. So when we speak of how the creation of humans came to be, it had to originate from someone of intelligence, because humans are intelligent beings. Simple. What other proof does an atheist need? If an atheist rejects the idea that someone or something of intelligence created the universe, then you are saying that unintelligence created intelligence, which makes no sense. Unintelligence can not create intelligence because by definition, it's not intelligent. Whatever caused the universe to be had to come from intelligence, if the creation is intelligent. Secondly, anything which is created with order and a system or pattern which repeats itself can only come from intelligence. If I wanted to create a pattern such as a checker board, I would not be able to do so without intelligence. This fact should be easy to digest. How else can you design a pattern to repeat itself without using your intelligence? Exactly. There is none. It is the simple fact, that as this thread goes on, you will witness, that not a single atheist will be able to give a logical answer to that question. So when it comes to whether the universe was created from an intelligent being, there should be no question about it. The only logical answer is that it was.

The question which a person would have to find an answer for is what or who exactly is the supreme being and what are his/her or it's attributes, not whether it is intelligent. The simple fact that the creation is intelligent is proof that the creator is intelligent, because unintelligence can not create intelligence because by definition, it's unintelligent.

So what is this supreme being? Is it man? Is it human? Is it Jesus? Is it Allah? Is it the singularity, as explainedin many scientific theories,etc? The answer can be found in the qur'an. In the qur'an we read:

"Will they not, then, meditate upon the qur'an? Had it been from anyone other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy". ch.4:82.

"And if you arecin doubt as to what We have sent down to Our servant, then produce a chapter like it, and call upon your helpers beside Allah, if you are truthful". ch.2:23.

Here we have two tests which proves the authenticity and truth of the qur'an. That not only is the qur'an full of truth and has no discrepancy, but that it is impossible to produce a chapter like the qur'an. That everything attributed to Allah is true and can be proven so. If you disagree, then find either a discrepancy, or produce a chapter like the qur'an, if you are truthful.

As for producing a chapter like the qur'an, I'll explain further with the following:

It is a common response that everytime this challenge is stated, someone responds with something like, "can you produce something like Shakespere or a symphony like Beethoven? If not, does this mean that they are prophets of God?" So before the thread is filled with those type of responses, let me explain further. The challenge is to produce a chapter "like" the qur'an. Therefore, it does not mean to simply write something in arabic and think you've accomplished something. What is the qur'an? Well what is any religous scripture? It is supposed to be inspiration from God. It's purpose is to inspire people to follow its teachings. So to produce a chapter like the qur'an means to produce a chapter as inspirational and as successful as the qur'an. So what's the purpose of that? Well by doing so, you learn the miracle of the qur'an. And what is that miracle? The miracle is the following:It is impossible for a person/s to create their own religion and use their made up religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. This is the miracle of the qur'an. This is the miracle of Muhammad. This is a challenge for those who claim that the religion of islam is man made as well as the qur'an. Muhammad used a religion to inspire enough followers to conquer a nation. So to those who claim that this was the act of a man made religion, then why don't you do the same? Why don't you create your own religion and see how far you get? And when you do, you will fail. Not only will you will fail, you will fail miserably. Muhammad conquered Arabia. I guarantee you, you won't even be able to conquer your own neighborhood. And once you fail, you will be forced to ask yourself the question "why was it possible for Muhammad but impossible for me and anyone else?" That is when you will come to realize that it was the help of Allah that made it possible for Muhammad. Without Allah, even Muhammad would have failed. You disagree, the 1400+ year challenge still stands.

The challenges are there. The tests are there. Each proving that Allah(swt) is the originator of all creation, and islam is a religion of truth. You disagree, then answer the challenges. And when you fail, then you will come to learn that it is fact, that Allah(swt) is the originator of all creation and that islam is a religion of truth.
 
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no-body

Well-Known Member
The proof of there being a God, or deity, or whatever name a person uses to identify the supreme being responsible for the creation of the universe, life itself, and all that exists to begin with, is based on one simple fact....

I predict the Muslim stock answer: "everything has to come from something" and of course ignoring any attempts at answering "well then where did Allah come from?" if God could come from nothing, why can't the universe have always been?

:sarcastic
 
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