Fat aceptance

[Debater Slayer]

I am consistent in this, I do not shame others

So, my question remains, why do you tell about inconsistency to me?

I was checking because Bill Maher has explicitly supported shaming fat people before, and you agreed with the video in the OP. If you disagree with his stance on shaming, then we're in agreement here.

 

[Callisto]

Like what?

Some examples:

- Claiming parents supervising their children's diets amounts to child abuse.
- Intentional weight loss is self-loathing and fatphobic
- Celebrities who intentionally lose weight are traitors and fatphobic.

Social media is rife with all kinds of claims.

 

[stvdv]

I was checking because Bill Maher has explicitly supported shaming fat people before, and you agreed with the video in the OP. If you disagree with his stance on shaming, then we're in agreement here.

Aha. So, you jumped to conclusions that were false, and I did sense it correctly after all

Well, next time you better ask me straightforward, because your repeated suggestive questioning and phrasing is not fine

FYI: I have been publicly shamed on RF for my stance on Corona and vaccination quite a bit in the past few years. I am not the one doing the shaming thing

 

[Debater Slayer]

Aha. So, you jumped to conclusions that were false, and I did sense it correctly after all

If I had concluded anything, I wouldn't have asked what your stance was.

That said, you do seem to be getting defensive. I definitely think being anti-vax warrants being defensive when you also try to talk about what is or isn't healthy, but the defensiveness doesn't mean the person you're talking to has jumped to any conclusions.

Well, next time you better ask me straightforward, because your repeated suggestive questioning and phrasing is not fine

FYI: I have been publicly shamed on RF for my stance on Corona and vaccination quite a bit in the past few years. I am not the one doing the shaming thing

Hopefully you also oppose it when Bill Maher does it to overweight people, then.

 

[Shaul]

Several years ago I quite quickly lost about 25% of my body weight. The reason? I'd stopped taken a medication.

Thank goodness. I was afraid you were going to write they cut off a limb.

 

[stvdv]

I am consistent in this, I do not shame others

I am not the one doing the shaming thing

Hopefully you also oppose it when Bill Maher does it to overweight people, then.

Seems pretty clear that I disagree with shaming other people (see my answers in red), or do you still doubt it?

 

[Vee]

It does get sinister in America. Like when the pork companies launched a massive campaign here that did deliberately misinform and mislead people by telling them pork is the "other white meat."
The nutritional labels are also all sorts of confusing and misleading and difficult to decipher because the laws here allow for loopholes where things can be added not claimed on the nutritional values label. Literally, it is legal in America for food companies to even label something as fat free or sugar free even though there is fat and sugar in it. Until a few years ago you could even see on the front of the box "trans fat free," read the nutritional label as see "Trans fat 0.0g," but read through the ingredients and find added trans fats.

In Europe the rules are a lot more strict, but I'm going to keep cooking anyway. Fruit, vegetables, eggs, etc, dont have a label written in some incomprehensible language for me to decipher. Real food is the best.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Seems pretty clear that I disagree with shaming other people (see my answers in red), or do you still doubt it?

I often take people's word for what they believe unless I see a reason not to. In this case, I'll take your word for your position and not doubt it.

 

[stvdv]

I often take people's word for what they believe unless I see a reason not to. In this case, I'll take your word for your position and not doubt it.

Thank you

I have a gigantic weight problem, and am struggling with it for the past 30 years, so I will never shame others struggling with their weight

 

[Debater Slayer]

Thank you

I have a gigantic weight problem, and am struggling with it for the past 30 years, so I will never shame others struggling with their weight

I wish you good health and also good luck with your weight issue.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In Europe the rules are a lot more strict, but I'm going to keep cooking anyway. Fruit, vegetables, eggs, etc, dont have a label written in some incomprehensible language for me to decipher. Real food is the best.

Even real food here is pumped with dyes amd other chemicals as a means to maximize visual appeal to the detriment of nutritional value.

 

[Vee]

Even real food here is pumped with dyes amd other chemicals as a means to maximize visual appeal to the detriment of nutritional value.

I'm really sorry about that. If you ever come to France, let me know and I'll make sure you get to try some amazing food. Hope you like wine too, but if not, I'll do my best to fix that

 

[JustGeorge]

I think shaming someone, even by assuming they're lazy, probably contributes more to poor health than people advertising clothes for obese people, or telling them that it's still okay to love their bodies, ever will.

And I think we need to approach obesity as an issue more holistically than just constantly shoving diet and exercise down people's throats as the be all solution for their health concerns.

I've largely stayed out of this thread, but have read along. However, I can't help but notice that there seems to be more of an attitude of "just stop eating already!", more so than most of us would do if a person was addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, or illegal drugs. We'd advise them to get help... from a professional. It seems most people expect the overweight person to tackle it all on their own. I wonder why this is?

Diet and exercise are just two small pieces... I agree, we need to look at the bigger picture.

I don't think we should glorify it but I also don't think we should judge people solely on their weight.

I think we should leave people's bodies out of the equation on most things. Unless you're a person's healthcare provider, what business is their body to anyone else?

 

[stvdv]

while in the army (who was later released due to his mental health issues), he told me that one of the main issues he had from antipsychotic medication was the significant weight gain despite barely eating anything

Was the weight gain in a very short period (week or month), or was the significant weight gain (I assume 10+ kg) over a long period of time (years)? I assume over a long period, right (see notes)?

Notes:
Usually
1) Fat weight gain can't go faster than surples amount of kcal eaten per day

2) If you use daily 2500 kcal then you need to eat at least 3400 kcal (900 kcal extra) to gain maximum 100 gr bodyweight per day, but that's a lot to eat, unless you eat (fast) food full of fat and sugar.

3) Major weight gain or loss (5 kg or more) in short time (week or so) can only happen when your kidneys flush out less/more urine than the amount of liquid you consume. It can't be fat gain/loss
@stvdvRF

 

[Debater Slayer]

Was the weight gain in a very short period (week or month), or was the significant weight gain (I assume 10+ kg) over a long period of time (years)? I assume over a long period, right (see notes)?

In his case, the majority of the weight gain started over the first two months of treatment with an antipsychotic, and for many people, the weight gain on that specific class of drugs is much more than 10 kg.

This article is a good starting point on the weight-gain side effect of these medications. They can affect different people in drastically different ways, and their interactions with various body functions are quite complicated and sometimes hard to predict:

Antipsychotic medication and weight gain | Articles

Notes:
Usually
1) Fat weight gain can't go faster than surples amount of kcal eaten per day

2) If you use daily 2500 kcal then you need to eat at least 3400 kcal (900 kcal extra) to gain maximum 100 gr bodyweight per day, but that's a lot to eat, unless you eat (fast) food full of fat and sugar.

3) Major weight gain or loss (5 kg or more) in short time (week or so) can only happen when your kidneys flush out less/more urine than the amount of liquid you consume. It can't be fat gain/loss
@stvdvRF

A lot of what holds under normal circumstances barely applies during antipsychotic treatment due to their complicated nature. Many people have reported gaining significant amounts of weight during treatment with them despite exercising, being on a strict diet, and adjusting their eating times.

There's a reason the side-effect profiles of most antipsychotics are considered by many experts to be among the most sensitive and potentially dangerous among all medication classes. This is one of them.

 

[stvdv]

In his case, the majority of the weight gain started over the first two months of treatment with an antipsychotic, and for many people, the weight gain on that specific class of drugs is much more than 10 kg.

Thank you, much appreciated

Maybe I should try that drug. I am 30 kg underweight (46kg + 1m86). I can't gain weight. Much more than 10kg gain is perfect for me, esp. if I don't need to eat much. Would be the perfect solution

I will read your article, and see if it is safe for liver and kidney, and if it has other side effects

 

[JustGeorge]

Thank you, much appreciated

Maybe I should try that drug. I am 30 kg underweight (46kg + 1m86). I can't gain weight. Much more than 10kg gain is perfect for me, esp. if I don't need to eat much. Would be the perfect solution

I will read your article, and see if it is safe for liver and kidney, and if it has other side effects

I don't think it would be good to take something in that drug family simply to gain weight. Those are very heavy psychiatric drugs.

Besides, its not guaranteed to cause weight gain. My son is on the highest dose possible(for his size) of one of those, and it may have made him gain one or two pounds, but he is still a skinny guy.

 

[stvdv]

I don't think it would be good to take something in that drug family simply to gain weight. Those are very heavy psychiatric drugs.

Besides, its not guaranteed to cause weight gain. My son is on the highest dose possible(for his size) of one of those, and it may have made him gain one or two pounds, but he is still a skinny guy.

Thank you for sharing. That is very useful to know. I just read in that article that some don't gain weight on those drugs. Definitely I would fall into that category. I rather don't take any pills, as I believe that food is my medicine, but I am always ready to test something out, unless it damages liver, kidneys etc. as quite a few pharmaceutical meds do

I believe in the laws of science, like E=mc². So mass (weight) can't just appear and increase out of nothing. You do need to put in extra energy (kcal) so it can be transformed into weight (kg)

That said, it can however be that certain metabolisms work in such a way that the surplus you eat becomes indeed fat, whereas in others it will get used differently, and not into body mass

Some have candida, fungus or tapeworms etc., that require food (kcal) too. Or when you have ADHD (running all day, more of your food gets dissipated, hence less weightgain, unless you run lots and eat lots). Some lose by having stress, others might gain, but only if they eat the required amount of surplus kcal

So, if there are 2 similar (size, workout etc) people, who eat the same food all day etc., one can get skinny and the other can gain lots of weight, but only if they eat a surplus amount of food (kcal)

(exceptions are there of course, some claim to live on prana or I read a story that a guru touched a skinny disciple who gained 10 healthy kg overnight. I loved that story and I wish Sai Baba did that to me. But normally humans must eat sufficient surplus to gain weight as far as I know)

I wish there was a magic pill to gain weight, being so much underweight is not good, but what to do? Probably a severe trauma, I had many, that makes it impossible, and all the ailments I have of course. So, I just have to sit it out

Not that I worry about it, but if I hear something to gain weight, I do check it out

ADHD medications can cause decreased appetite, especially in children. Does ADHD cause weight loss? ADHD itself is not typically associated with weight loss, but the stimulant medications that are often prescribed to treat ADHD can cause a decrease in appetite that may lead to unintentional weight loss.

 

[JustGeorge]

Thank you for sharing. That is very useful to know. I just read in that article that some don't gain weight on those drugs. Definitely I would fall into that category. I rather don't take any pills, as I believe that food is my medicine, but I am always ready to test something out, unless it damages liver, kidneys etc. as quite a few pharmaceutical meds do

I believe in the laws of science, like E=mc². So mass (weight) can't just appear and increase out of nothing. You do need to put in extra energy (kcal) so it can be transformed into weight (kg)

That said, it can however be that certain metabolisms work in such a way that the surplus you eat becomes indeed fat, whereas in others it will get used differently, and not into body mass

Some have candida, fungus or tapeworms etc., that require food (kcal) too. Or when you have ADHD (running all day, more of your food gets dissipated, hence less weightgain, unless you run lots and eat lots). Some lose by having stress, others might gain, but only if they eat the required amount of surplus kcal

So, if there are 2 similar (size, workout etc) people, who eat the same food all day etc., one can get skinny and the other can gain lots of weight, but only if they eat a surplus amount of food (kcal)

(exceptions are there of course, some claim to live on prana or I read a story that a guru touched a skinny disciple who gained 10 healthy kg overnight. I loved that story and I wish Sai Baba did that to me. But normally humans must eat sufficient surplus to gain weight as far as I know)

I wish there was a magic pill to gain weight, being so much underweight is not good, but what to do? Probably a severe trauma, I had many, that makes it impossible, and all the ailments I have of course. So, I just have to sit it out

Not that I worry about it, but if I hear something to gain weight, I do check it out

I'm sorry you struggle with a weight issue. Its never fun...

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Some examples:

- Claiming parents supervising their children's diets amounts to child abuse.

This makes the claim without providing examples of what people saying amounts to child abuse. I imagine that there are good examples of parents who influence their kids diet and exercise through emotionally and physically abuse means.

- Intentional weight loss is self-loathing and fatphobic
- Celebrities who intentionally lose weight are traitors and fatphobic.

Social media is rife with all kinds of claims.

I do agree that people should feel free to lose weight, though I am not sure if people complaining about celebrities losing weight online constitutes a movement requiring someone with Bill Mahar's influence to advocate for fat shaming.

I sort of see the point of some folks, though. Celebrities who don't fit the stereotype of the uber-thin model provide representation for realistic body shapes, and when one decides to lose weight I imagine it can feel like betrayal.

That doesn't mean people shouldn't feel free to di what is right for their own health and aesthetic desires, but also, that's one of the prices for being a celebrity.