Fat aceptance

[Quagmire]

And yet....so many people are advocating economic
expansion, increased immigration, & "family values"
that mean big families.

Which I think can be explained by an obscure Sociological concept known as the "People are Idiots" theory.

It is just a theory, but there's plenty of evidence to support it (I think it's called "History").

 

[Shadow Wolf]

His writers ought to have put in that what makes Americans overweight is all the sugar and the lies about sugar that were put upon us.

He often does that. He even criticizes doctors for not asking often enough what we're eating.

 

[Revoltingest]

Which I think can be explained by an obscure Sociological concept known as the "People are Idiots" theory.

It is just a theory, but there's plenty of evidence to support it (I think it's called "History").

Sexist!
It ignores "herstory".

 

[Twilight Hue]

I find Maher's lack of empathy appalling.

And the hypocrisy as well.

Good thing the world dosent revolve around Bill Maher.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I will review the video again, but in context, Mahar has specifically suggested fat-shaming before:

“In August, 53 Americans died from mass shootings. Terrible right? Do you know how many died from obesity? Forty thousand. Fat shaming doesn’t need to end it needs to make a comeback. Some amount of shame is good. We shamed people out of smoking and into wearing seat belts. We shamed them out of littering and most of them out of racism. Shame is the first step in reform.”

Bill Maher Asks People To Fat Shame More, Here Is The Response

I also think he is purposely misstating the issue; He is connecting how a person looks (where he discusses the ads of brands like Nike and...Victoria's Secret?) to celebrating unhealthy lifestyles. The fact that he points out a lingerie store as being something that should be focused on fitness suggests something about his image of beauty, and that how a person looks determines their health, and that different body types shouldn't have representation in the media. This is often untrue since a person's health is far more complicated than how they look, since both a healthy diet, healthy exercise, and healthy weight are dependent on the individual: Can you be overweight but healthy?

Sumo wrestlers are extremely healthy in spite of their size. The nix is that you stay active and exercise with the extra poundage.

 

[Truth in love]

When I was talking to a schizophrenic I met while in the army (who was later released due to his mental health issues), he told me that one of the main issues he had from antipsychotic medication was the significant weight gain despite barely eating anything. And he was still overweight in the army despite working out regularly and eating very little.

With many other overweight people I've met over the years, the reasons for being overweight have ranged from gland issues to eating disorders that therapists couldn't fully treat or diagnose. There are also some who can't afford to eat as healthy as a proper diet would require or have mental health issues that sap away so much of their energy that a healthy amount of physical activity becomes an achievement.

Of course, there are many people who are overweight due to poor diets, poor medical decisions, etc., but I think my point is clear here: we can't look at a random overweight person and assume by default that their weight issues are merely due to negligence or poor diets. Many have difficulty losing weight even though they dislike their being overweight more than anyone else does. With this in mind, being supportive and avoiding shaming indeed seems to me the wisest, most productive, and most empathetic approach to the issue of obesity.

Bill Maher is yet again trying to profit off misunderstanding and simplistic generalizations. It seems to me that comedians aren't the best source of information on medical issues like obesity, much less comedians with an extensive record of vitriol and blind partisanship.

Weight is a complex issue with many factors. Poor diet and low exercise are a part of it for many. Meds can be huge. Personal trauma, genetics etc all play a role.

accepting people without promoting a bad idea or unhealthy life style is smart.

 

[Audie]

His writers ought to have put in that what makes Americans overweight is all the sugar and the lies about sugar that were put upon us. We were told to avoid fat and to err on the side of sugar. I was told this from childhood. For decades lay people were lied to about this, so we bought things that said 'Low fat' on them. This made us fat. We bought horrible foods. Bill is striking close to the point that we shouldn't be praising people for being fat, which is true. We shouldn't. He is missing out that we aren't overeating. We were being drugged and told lies up until very recently. Now we do indeed have an obesity problem, and the sugar lie is gradually being exposed. It is being exposed, however every place I go to buy food or to eat is always trying to push pure sugar. The lie has been exposed, but the food vendors want to kill us. They want us caffeinated and craving sugar, and they want us fat and are making it hard to find good food. They gaslight the truth by selling so much sugar.

By the way @Vee come to the USA and look at the poison that is sold as cereal for children. Its nothing but sugar and food coloring, and it is marketed to children and their parents. Our FDA which supposedly is there to protect us from bad foods is behind it. Sometimes foods in vending machines have 'Heart healthy' stamped onto them, and they'll make you fat and sluggish. As a kid I used to love going to some small shop and ordering an inexpensive 32 oz (about 1 liter) soda and drinking that sweet madness all at once, and nobody told me it was bad for me.

I had such a helicopter mom, by the time
I could get a can of coke, I didn't want it.

 

[Audie]

You people are indeed tiny.
Sort of "travel size".
Modern airliners are designed for you, not us....

True that! The seats are roomy, the meals are
big, and some guy will always get my bag from
the overhead!

 

[Quagmire]

Sexist!
It ignores "herstory".

That's not an accident.

 

[Audie]

You people are indeed tiny.
Sort of "travel size".
Modern airliners are designed for you, not us....

American v Asian in the aisle

 

[ADigitalArtist]

People like Bill Mahr don't actually care about the health of fat people, they just care about upholding an esthetic they enjoy. And they don't want social consequence for being mean spirited about people whose story nor health do they have knowledge of.

It's the same sort of willful ignorance which drives people to conclude that any particular homeless person they see is lazy or doesn't want to work.

 

[Quagmire]

People like Bill Mahr don't actually care about the health of fat people, they just care about upholding an esthetic they enjoy.

And what are you basing that on exactly? There are SO many other issues involved with this topic that affect everybody: the effect on healthcare costs and insurance premiums, the rate of absenteeism among obese workers, SSI disability being paid out for conditions directly related to obesity.

The environmental impact of irresponsible food choices and the production, distribution, and packaging practices that go along with it.

And then there's this idea being instilled in the young that overindulgence is not only OK, but actually something to be celebrated which is pretty much guaranteed to spill over into other areas of their lives.

With all that going on, why would you assume that the people paying attention to this issue or just doing so because they like making fun of people's weight?

Like I said; this issue affects all of us so it's something we all have a right to have an opinion about.

And they don't want social consequence for being mean spirited about people whose story nor health do they have knowledge of.

It's the same sort of willful ignorance which drives people to conclude that any particular homeless person they see is lazy or doesn't want to work.

I'll tell you what: the day Victoria's secret models start wearing five sets of clothes at the same time and pushing shopping carts down the runway I'll give you a point for the comparison.

 

[Debater Slayer]

People like Bill Mahr don't actually care about the health of fat people, they just care about upholding an esthetic they enjoy. And they don't want social consequence for being mean spirited about people whose story nor health do they have knowledge of.

It's the same sort of willful ignorance which drives people to conclude that any particular homeless person they see is lazy or doesn't want to work.

I would probably care more about his simplistic take on obesity if he didn't have a record of ignorant and thoughtless takes on other health issues:

Bill Maher questions Bella Thorne after she says she has 'crippling anxiety': 'What are you upset about?'

Bill Maher Goes Full Marianne Williamson on Antidepressants

Whoopi Goldberg Slams Bill Maher Over Comments On Vaccine And Mask Mandates

Medical issues are far from the only area he has been wrong about. The man has fueled his career with manufactured controversy, prejudiced takes, and propagation of misunderstanding. He's a manifestation of TV's most toxic and unproductive elements.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And what are you basing that on exactly?

Because I've met people like that my whole life. People who feign concern at my weight in the same sort of tone passive aggressive Christians pray for atheists. Like they're pretending to be doing them a favor instead of making ignorance based judgements about their lifestyle.

And it's Bill Mahr. The guy who would **** his biggest ideological rival because he thought she was hot, and who has become the shallow he used to call Ayn Rand style objectivism libertarians, with a known record of being so blinded by anti-pharmaseutical/consumerist conspiracies that he, up until very recently, long held pseudoscience like autism caused by vaccines, with fake concern and bad science.

the effect on healthcare costs and insurance premiums, the rate of absenteeism among obese workers, SSI disability being paid out for conditions directly related to obesity.

I think these 'concerns' are tunnel visioned. Fat people are an easy target rather than, say, these at risk due to high risk sports or who are skinny but unhealthy. It also automatically assumes obesity is the cause and not a symptom even though metabolic hormone disorders like PCOS exist in more than 1 in 10 women.

And anyway healthcare premiums are a scam in my book and I'd rather focus on building a universal Healthcare which covers everyone no matter what your decisions are.

Im also not very impressed by 'concern' rising from a selfish motive like how much are obese people costing me/how much does it impact our capitalist dystopia.

I don't want Joe Smith's opinions on my health as it is none of their business, not actually constructive towards my health, and they're not in an informed position to offer it anyway. Especially not some out of touch 66 year old who thinks he knows What 'the youths are overindulging in.'

I'll tell you what: the day Victoria's secret models start wearing five sets of clothes at the same time and pushing shopping carts down the runway I'll give you a point for the comparison.

Yeah how dare obese people get clothing that fits them and makes them feel good about themselves. They should be forever guilty feeling about their weight, like a catholic student going through puberty.

Anyway the comparison is about people's uninformed prejudicial judgements clouding the issue if why people become homeless or obese, not whether or not society views obesity and homelessness with equal contempt or romanticism.

 

[Quagmire]

Because I've met people like that my whole life. People who feign concern at my weight in the same sort of tone passive aggressive Christians pray for atheists. Like they're pretending to be doing them a favor instead of making ignorance based judgements about their lifestyle.

And it's Bill Mahr. The guy who would **** his biggest ideological rival because he thought she was hot, and who has become the shallow he used to call Ayn Rand style objectivism libertarians, with a known record of being so blinded by anti-pharmaseutical/consumerist conspiracies that he, up until very recently, long held pseudoscience like autism caused by vaccines, with fake concern and bad science.

I think these 'concerns' are tunnel visioned.

So I guess I'm to take the fact that you put 'concerns' in quotation marks to mean that there is no impending environmental cataclysm brought about almost entirely by overindulgence in general and overindulgence in eating habits in particular? This is just a myth that people came up with in order to have an excuse to pick on overweight people.

And the impact an epidemic of obesity is having on the healthcare system and other infrastructures, these are all make believe too?

Somehow, I'm not as relieved by this news as I should be.

Fat people are an easy target rather than, say, these at risk due to high risk sports or who are skinny but unhealthy.

Like who for instance? It's been pointed out a couple of times in this thread that conditions related to obesity are the number 1 cause of death in the United States.

Where do people dying from sports related injuries fall on that list?

And as far as people that are skinny but unhealthy, who are we talking about specifically? And to what extent are their health related issues the result of conscious lifestyle choices? Are we talking about smokers? Because they (and until recently me) have taken their fair share of crap for their habit, and rightfully so, because it affects other people.

Are we talking about drug addicts? Yep, drug addiction is bad too. But we don't see anybody trying to paint drug addiction as an acceptable lifestyle choice.

I don't think anybody's picking on fat people because they're "an easy target".

People are picking on their lifestyle because it's just generally destructive.

It also automatically assumes obesity is the cause and not a symptom even though metabolic hormone disorders like PCOS exist in more than 1 in 10 women.

If hormonal disorders were in large part responsible for this sudden surge of obesity that we've seen in the last generation, we'd have to ask ourselves "where did these disorders come from all of a sudden"? How come our parents and grandparents and the generations before them werent plugged with these issues?

I mean I suppose it's possible that there's some sort of industrial or chemicalgarbage spewing into the atmosphere that's tweaking everybody's hormonal systems.

But isn't it interesting that the rate of obesity just happened to coincide with the advent of fast food, processed food, junk food, and a trend towards a more sedentary lifestyle?

Don't get me wrong, I know hormonal disorders are a real thing, but I think bringing them up in a conversation like this and trying to imply that they're somehow the real cause of the obesity epidemic --- or even a significant factor --- is just a way of taking the spotlight away from where the real responsibility lies.

And anyway healthcare premiums are a scam in my book and I'd rather focus on building a universal Healthcare which covers everyone no matter what your decisions are.

Im also not very impressed by 'concern' rising from a selfish motive like how much are obese people costing me/how much does it impact our capitalist dystopia.

Hey, it doesn't affect me. I get free healthcare and I haven't paid taxes in a long time at this point.

That doesn't mean I can't sympathize with the people that it does affect.

Saying that the healthcare system is screwed up or that society itself is screwed up may be true but it's really just a way of trying to change the topic.

We don't have a whole lot of control over any of that.

We have almost complete control over our diet and exercise choices.

I don't want Joe Smith's opinions on my health as it is none of their business, not actually constructive towards my health, and they're not in an informed position to offer it anyway. Especially not some out of touch 66 year old who thinks he knows What 'the youths are overindulging in.'

Unless the 66-year-old In question is deaf, blind, and lives in a cave I'd say he's just as qualified to comment on the behavior of the young people around him as anyone else.

Yeah how dare obese people get clothing that fits them and makes them feel good about themselves. They should be forever guilty feeling about their weight, like a catholic student going through puberty.

Anyway the comparison is about people's uninformed prejudicial judgements clouding the issue if why people become homeless or obese, not whether or not society views obesity and homelessness with equal contempt or romanticism.

I don't care. I liked my shopping cart/runway reference anyway.

 

[Callisto]

It likely depends on culture but in America that is the more common reason than medical issues. Add on top of it many Americans don't exercise and there will be issues.

And that's the point Maher was making. He's not advocating shaming people, he clearly references the trend in society that encourages ideology over science and fact.

Yes, it's a person's choice to live their life however they want, they just need to accept the consequences. He's not wrong. Live, love, imbibe however and how hard you want to. Just own the results, that's all. However, the Fat Acceptance movement denies self-responsibility and glorifies obesity, which in most instances is not related to unavoidable conditions, diseases, or genetics; it actively denies the health risks of carrying far more weight than the human body is intended to. FA is largely populated by entitled middle-class, mostly white women claiming they're oppressed when a store fails to carry above a US size 26-28W (3-4X; or IIRC about a UK Size 50). But satisfaction isn't attainable as there's always another "fategory" (the FA's term for various sizes of fatness) that will say it's being oppressed. Never mind such retail business basics like costs, supply and demand, and regional differences. And the nonsense activists spew about nutrition,... smh. "Denial is not just a river in Egypt."

 

[Vee]

You people are indeed tiny.
Sort of "travel size".
Modern airliners are designed for you, not us....

I can so relate to that. Im 5'2 and around 120 pounds - small thing - and plane seats are fine for me, but every time I take a flight I feel so sorry for at least half the other passengers squeezed into the tiny seats. That has to be uncomfortable

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And that's the point Maher was making. He's not advocating shaming people, he clearly references the trend in society that encourages ideology over science and fact.

Yes, it's a person's choice to live their life however they want, they just need to accept the consequences. He's not wrong. Live, love, imbibe however and how hard you want to. Just own the results, that's all. However, the Fat Acceptance movement denies self-responsibility and glorifies obesity, which in most instances is not related to unavoidable conditions, diseases, or genetics; it actively denies the health risks of carrying far more weight than the human body is intended to. FA is largely populated by entitled middle-class, mostly white women claiming they're oppressed when a store fails to carry above a US size 26-28W (3-4X; or IIRC about a UK Size 50). But satisfaction isn't attainable as there's always another "fategory" (the FA's term for various sizes of fatness) that will say it's being oppressed. Never mind such retail business basics like costs, supply and demand, and regional differences. And the nonsense activists spew about nutrition,... smh. "Denial is not just a river in Egypt."

Yeah, and I don't get why that is so hard for people to realize. There are many known health risks associated with being overweight. Joint damage, cancer, heart disease, stroke, diabetes, sleep apnea and depression have all been linked time and time again to being overweight. And we know acceptance of unhealthiness leads to bad places. Like how there used to be widespread tolerance for smoking.
But we also know shaming people tends to make things worse. So this is definitely not the route to go either because that too comes with side effects and consequences but more typically for the one being shamed.
And I absolutely despise the clothing argument. Lots of people have had to catalog order stuff and transition to online buying because stores carry averages. My brother had a hella time finding shoes big enough because he worse size a size 16. My best friend, she's a size 12 in women's shoes so she tends to wear men's shoes. Me, it's absolute nuts because because as a guy I could rarely find pants in a store that would fit and shirts never had shoulders that fit right (they'd dangle and hang off my shoulders), but when I began transitioning and shopping for women's clothes I found I have a variety of jeans to chose from and the shoulders of shirts actually sit on my shoulders like they're supposed to.
So, yeah, the clothing thing is just a struggle for lots of people because lots of people fall outside of a couple standard deviations from the center of the bellcurve of average human sizes (I feel sorry for the women who are so small they end up in the kids department).

 

[Aštra’el]

You people are indeed tiny.
Sort of "travel size".
Modern airliners are designed for you, not us....

That man is Brian Shaw- absolute legend among those involved in serious strength training. He’s a 4X World’s Strongest Man champion and still one of the strongest men on earth today. His fitness routine (despite a very high caloric intake) completely outclasses 99% of Americans, and probably humanity in general. Most of the size you see there is muscle sculpted onto a 6”8 frame… and the man trains day in day out to attain and maintain that kind of size and strength. He’s also chill as hell and an awesome human being.

There is a significant difference between “getting big” as result of training hard, and getting big off of sugar and fat.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

overindulgence

And the impact an epidemic of obesity is having on the healthcare system and other infrastructures, these are all make believe too?

Like who for instance? It's been pointed out a couple of times in this thread that conditions related to obesity are the number 1 cause of death in the United States.

People are picking on their lifestyle

Don't get me wrong, I know hormonal disorders are a real thing, but I think bringing them up in a conversation like this and trying to imply that they're somehow the real cause of the obesity epidemic --- or even a significant factor --- is just a way of taking the spotlight away from where the real responsibility lies

The myth isn't that obesity isn't a problem or that it's a risk factor or that factors like pollution or poor quality food aren't involved in causing illness, some of which includes obesity.

The myth is that it's lack of diet and exercise and overindulgence that's making everyone fat. That just changing ones 'lifestyle' will make people not fat anymore. I listed *one* hormone disorder that literally changes your metabolic structure to the extent that people *cannot* lose weight no matter how much they eat healthy or exercise. One that effects 10% of women just on its own.
I will never be skinny but I could run laps around most of my skinny friends who are not as fit as I am. Those who will never be fat but still just as if not more at risk of these 'obesity associated disease' as I am.

And how many people become obese because they fall ill to something completely unrelated and severely impact their ability to be active? Both visible and invisible illness. Should they be ashamed of their body forever more because fat = lazy/self destructive lifestyle to some people who aren't their doctor and aren't qualified to give them medical advice?

I think shaming someone, even by assuming they're lazy, probably contributes more to poor health than people advertising clothes for obese people, or telling them that it's still okay to love their bodies, ever will.

And I think we need to approach obesity as an issue more holistically than just constantly shoving diet and exercise down people's throats as the be all solution for their health concerns.