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False Prophets

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Good. Never liked Rush.... rather, liked the music, hated, nay detested, Geddy Lee's voice. Horrid...

It took me a while to get used to it, I must confess. Their music is awesome, though. My favorite album from them is Grace Under Pressure, love that one.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I'm wondering how people try to distinguish between "true" prophets and "false" prophets. If someone walks down the street claiming to be a prophet for a religion (admittedly unlikely) you have to figure out whether you can take them at their word or whether you just move on trying to avoid making eye contact with the crazy person.

This issue doesn't really occur for me. The idea of prophets rests upon certain assumptions that are not part of the stories I tell. Prophets are special people who have received private messages from the gods and are then tasks with preaching that message to others. The very idea of this is just foreign to contemporary Paganisms for a couple of reasons. First, everybody recieves messages from the gods and it is a personal task to cultivate those relationships with the gods to bring meaning to one's own life. Second, as a non-dogmatic, non-proselytizing movement, the idea of spreading the message is absent as well.

As for how I generally regard people's relationships with the gods, it really is not my place to judge their experiences. I like listening to their stories, though, and I see no reason to do anything other than take them at their word. I'm under no obligation to make their stories part of my narrative anyway and what's important is how it weaves meaning in their life, not in mine.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Coming in late, to me a true prophet is one who is a "Friend of God" - Wali-Allah in Islamic terms or mahapurush in Hindi. Or a pir/satpurush. Or a qutub/sadguru - in other words someone who has transcended the egoic world.

Recognizing one of those is like asking a blind man to discern who can see and who is faking sight.

If you read stories of those recognized as such in India and elsewhere, their demeanor and behavior is different for each one.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
I thought of "false prophets" as religious leaders who, either deliberately or unintentionally, lead people away from religious truth by corrupting religious experience. It's more from the Christian view of the "Anti-Christ" or false Christ misleading the people. That might be a bit loose in terms of definitions but I think the meaning is still there.
I can't speak for Christians or to the Anti-Christ metaphor, but my yardstick for a false teacher would be one not achieving gnosis for himself. If you have had a taste you'll usually recognize the others somewhat by what kind of things they say and pay attention to when speaking of experience.

I think most of the false teachers are unintentional, they really believe what they are teaching is somehow useful, or even if they start out as a scam they might end up believing some of their own selling points.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
By the way, you straightaway thought I was talking only about Muslims. I was not. In the 20th century several such prophets with their fanatical followers have arisen... Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Pol pot, Kim Jong Un and also ISIS, Taliban. I was thinking of all the poor folks who were, are and will continue to be in their mercy.
Good points. I also think anyone forcing their views by gun or sword could not be a "true prophet".

Also I think I need to repeat this: I believe much of ISIS are not honestly Muslims, but people who use the idea of being morally superior as an excuse to rape, pillage and murder to their heart's content.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I'm wondering how people try to distinguish between "true" prophets and "false" prophets. If someone walks down the street claiming to be a prophet for a religion (admittedly unlikely) you have to figure out whether you can take them at their word or whether you just move on trying to avoid making eye contact with the crazy person.

I think probably the best way to tell if someone were a false prophet is if they offer salvation. In reality, no-one can save us. There is no quick fix or easy solution to the problems of learning how to live our own lives. It is up to us to "save ourselves" by giving our lives meaning and purpose. The best we can get is to find spiritual and religious knowledge, be open to it and for someone to help us on our own journey. The higher level of consciousness associated with religious being is ultimately part of our own anatomy. It is part of our brain or mind (or soul if you wish). A false prophet can take away our ability to "see" and to "hear" from us by telling us to look for answers outside of ourselves in some external authority. The "true" prophet is someone who can help us regain our sight and hearing and learn to use our own conscience for the purpose of self-discover and self-creation.

Do you think this is a reasonable view? Or is there something missing?

A false prophet meaning someone who actually believe they are talking with God versus one who actually knows they are faking it?

What's the point of a prophet who says it's up to us to save ourselves? Aren't they kind of invalidating themselves?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Do you mean there are no prophets because there are no prophecies?

Say I predict that we will go to war with N. Korea or that Trump will win/lose the next election. If I happen to be right will that make me a prophet?

If I make my prophecies vague enough, I'm certain there's an art to that, a lot of them might come to pass by chance or educated guessing.

I don't think making an educated guess about the future makes one a prophet myself. Though I suppose it could for some folks. Depends on how believable I can make my predictions.
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Neither of those fit the bill as prophets.
I'm going to cut you some slack and ask you to explain what a Prophet is and bring evidence from your Torah.

If you can't do that then, do you agree to the following definition of the word 'Prophet':

prophet
ˈprɒfɪt/
noun
  1. 1.
    a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.
Let's agree on common ground before examining each man and their claims.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
I'm going to cut you some slack and ask you to explain what a Prophet is and bring evidence from your Torah.

If you can't do that then, do you agree to the following definition of the word 'Prophet':

prophet
ˈprɒfɪt/
noun
  1. 1.
    a person regarded as an inspired teacher or proclaimer of the will of God.
Let's agree on common ground before examining each man and their claims.
It doesn't really matter because different groups have different criteria. Do you consider Baha'ullah to be a prophet?
 
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