"Fake News" in Today's Political Climate

[Shad]

How can you or I tell what was and was not edited? Should I just take your word for it?

Look at the clothing of the people. Look at the people around her. You could also search for other version such as.....

The only thing it proved is that you can not support your allegations.

Wrong. I proved it. You are in denial

Since you are referring to me as "son" that would make you very old.

No I do not use son as a comment about age.

Perhaps that's why your feeble brain cannot remember what you posted and why you confuse allegations with evidence.

Wrong again, son. All one needs to do is look at the comment chain. Try it son.

Some serious examples would go a long way to changing your comments from assertion to factual statements.

Also, I couldn't help but notice that your comments sound a lot like the comments creos make about science.

If there are so many examples of MSM lying, you surely can find a good example. But take your time gramps. I wouldn't want you to fall off your computer chair and bang your head again.

All I need was one example.

 

[Revoltingest]

Look at the clothing of the people. Look at the people around her. You could also search for other version such as.....

The changes appear to be from coverage by different cameras.
The outfits are all the same, but only the color hues change.

 

[Shad]

The changes appear to be from coverage by different cameras.
The outfits are all the same, but only the color hues change.

That clip is from one source unlike my first link. I just used it to demonstrate it was the same. I tossed in identification factors for those are clueless and can not figure out the same people wearing the same cloths are in both.

 

[Stevicus]

On the other hand, Trump stirs the fear pot with things that do not "constitute a clear and present danger". He manufacturers the fear.

He uses the fear. He didn't manufacture it. As you noted, this has been going on since the country was started.

What is the compromise resolution when one is faced with fearmongering for the sake of instilling false fears?

If people are discussing what they fear, then there are two ways of approaching it:

1. You can either ridicule them and tell them that they are false fears, which will only increase the fear, anger, and escalation of hatred.

2. You can try to be more understanding and compassionate towards people in fear, and try to reach some sort of understanding regarding what, exactly, they fear - and then address it on that level.

 

[Stevicus]

Then why did you single out "today's political climate"? This Country, like most Countries, has been divided since before its inception.

"Today's political climate" was in the title of the thread. It's the topic raised by the OP. If you take issue with that, then take it up with the OP, not me.

I was never a big believer in Dale Carnegie or any other kumbaya approaches.

I don't see it as a "kumbaya" approach, but whatever. Some people prefer to call it "civility."

Absolutely not. But the tone is set by the top and towards the top. Obama never used hate speech or belittled people. Clinton never used hate speech or belittled people. Trump, made his political mark by attacking Obama with the birther issue. Trump, made his political mark by screaming "lock her up". Trump made his political mark by attacking and belittling his primary opponents. Trump made his political mark by attacking the press. Trump made his political mark instilling fear about Muslims and Mexicans. Trump made his political mark instilling fear about Iran's nukes. Etc. Etc. Etc. Ad nauseam.

All politicians sling mud at each other. Even you yourself said as much regarding how it's been in this country "since before its inception." Now, you're saying that Trump's predecessors never did anything like that. You keep shifting back and forth, while chiding others for "not keeping up" with your confused and disjointed commentary.

 

[ecco]

Nothing relevant to my comments here, what do you think needs defending?

Can't have much of a conversation if you don't own up to your own comments.

Bye.

 

[ecco]

He uses the fear. He didn't manufacture it. As you noted, this has been going on since the country was started.

A distinction without a difference.

If people are discussing what they fear, then there are two ways of approaching it:

1. You can either ridicule them and tell them that they are false fears, which will only increase the fear, anger, and escalation of hatred.

2. You can try to be more understanding and compassionate towards people in fear, and try to reach some sort of understanding regarding what, exactly, they fear - and then address it on that level.

Really? You've been a member here for eight years.
How many times have you seen patience extended? I see it often.
How many times has that made a difference? I've seen it never.

As I said, I'm not much of a fan/believer in Kumbaya.


Have you been in a situation where opposing groups are face to face? Have you tried to calmly discuss the situation with the opposition?





ETA: Ignore the attachment. I can't get rid of it.

 

[ecco]

I don't see it as a "kumbaya" approach, but whatever. Some people prefer to call it "civility."

See post #67 above.

 

[ecco]

"Today's political climate" was in the title of the thread. It's the topic raised by the OP. If you take issue with that, then take it up with the OP, not me.



I don't see it as a "kumbaya" approach, but whatever. Some people prefer to call it "civility."



All politicians sling mud at each other. Even you yourself said as much regarding how it's been in this country "since before its inception." Now, you're saying that Trump's predecessors never did anything like that. You keep shifting back and forth, while chiding others for "not keeping up" with your confused and disjointed commentary.

It seems you do not understand the difference between presenting opposing views and:
Trump lying about Obama's place of birth
Trump Belitting John McCain
Trump Belittling a handicapped reporter
etc.


You suggest that people be civil yet it seems that you support Trump.

 

[Nakosis]

Can't have much of a conversation if you don't own up to your own comments.

Bye.

It also helps if you post something relative.
Maybe next time.

 

[Stevicus]

A distinction without a difference.

What do you mean?

Really? You've been a member here for eight years.
How many times have you seen patience extended? I see it often.
How many times has that made a difference? I've seen it never.

As I said, I'm not much of a fan/believer in Kumbaya.

I'm not talking about "here." I'm talking about the political climate across the country, as noted by the OP. It's not "Kumbaya," but rather "civility."

Have you been in a situation where opposing groups are face to face? Have you tried to calmly discuss the situation with the opposition?

Sure, why not try?

 

[Stevicus]

It seems you do not understand the difference between presenting opposing views and:
Trump lying about Obama's place of birth
Trump Belitting John McCain
Trump Belittling a handicapped reporter
etc.

I don't recall Trump lying about Obama's place of birth. As I recall, Trump was only calling for Obama and/or the State of Hawaii to release his birth certificate, which they finally did after Trump kept badgering them about it. They were stonewalling on that, so it was merely a matter of the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Once it was released and it was proven that he was born in the United States, the matter was immediately dropped.

You suggest that people be civil yet it seems that you support Trump.

I don't really support anyone at this point. I just don't agree with the OP's contention that "Trump is responsible for fueling divisiveness and violence directly or indirectly," nor do I agree with your contention that Trump is the "manufacturer of fear" (as if this country never had fear before the 2016 election).

If you wish to prove that Trump is responsible or that he is the "manufacturer of fear," then you would first have to prove that none of these things existed prior to his election. Since I know that you can't prove that (because it is false), then I surmise that you're entirely motivated by political partisanship.

 

[Lyndon]

Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya, and didn't drop it after the birth certificate was revealed, check your "facts".

 

[Stevicus]

Trump claimed Obama was born in Kenya, and didn't drop it after the birth certificate was revealed, check your "facts".

It was years ago. I haven't heard it brought up in a long time, so as far as I can tell, the matter was dropped once the document was made public.

 

[Lyndon]

he brought it up again during the campaign.

 

[ecco]

I don't really support anyone at this point. I just don't agree with the OP's contention that "Trump is responsible for fueling divisiveness and violence directly or indirectly," nor do I agree with your contention that Trump is the "manufacturer of fear" (as if this country never had fear before the 2016 election).

If you wish to prove that Trump is responsible or that he is the "manufacturer of fear," then you would first have to prove that none of these things existed prior to his election. Since I know that you can't prove that (because it is false), then I surmise that you're entirely motivated by political partisanship.

Nice failed attempt with the wordplay. Your objections make sense only if it's true that Tesla does not "manufacture" cars or cars did not exist before Tesla started "manufacturing" them.


There were cars manufactured before Telsa started manufacturing cars.
Tesla manufactures cars. Trump manufactures fear.

 

[ecco]

I don't recall Trump lying about Obama's place of birth. As I recall, Trump was only calling for Obama and/or the State of Hawaii to release his birth certificate, which they finally did after Trump kept badgering them about it. They were stonewalling on that, so it was merely a matter of the squeaky wheel getting the grease.

14 of Donald Trump's most outrageous 'birther' claims - CNNPolitics
- March 23, 2011, on "The View"
2. "He's spent millions of dollars trying to get away from this issue. Millions of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from this issue. And I'll tell you what, I brought it up, just routinely, and all of a sudden a lot facts are emerging and I'm starting to wonder myself whether or not he was born in this country."

- March 28, 2011, on Fox News
3. "He doesn't have a birth certificate, or if he does, there's something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'religion,' it might have 'Muslim.' And if you're a Muslim, you don't change your religion, by the way."​

- April 7, 2011, on NBC's "Today" show
5. "His grandmother in Kenya said, 'Oh, no, he was born in Kenya and I was there and I witnessed the birth.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting."​

Technically, you seem to be correct. Trump never flat out stated Obama was not born in the USA.

Once it was released and it was proven that he was born in the United States, the matter was immediately dropped.

Uh, no. The matter was immediately dropped. The matter was not dropped at all.

Note: On April 27, 2011, President Obama made public his long form birth certificate. The Trump campaign in his statement portrayed this as the event that resolved the situation.
"Having successfully obtained President Obama's birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States," Miller said.

But as the following comments demonstrate, whatever he thought personally, Trump continued to gin up birther issues for years after.

6. "He didn't know he was running for president, so he told the truth. The literary agent wrote down what he said ... He said he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia ... Now they're saying it was a mistake. Just like his Kenyan grandmother said he was born in Kenya, and she pointed down the road to the hospital, and after people started screaming at her, she said, 'Oh, I mean Hawaii.' Give me a break."

- May 24, 2012, interview with The Daily Beast's Lloyd Grove, responding to an erroneous report about Obama
7. "A lot of people do not think it was an authentic certificate. ... Many people do not think it was authentic. His mother was not in the hospital. There are many other things that came out. And frankly if you would report it accurately I think you'd probably get better ratings than you're getting."
- May 29, 2012, to CNN's Wolf Blitzer

8. "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud."

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.


20.7K
4:23 PM - Aug 6, 2012
Twitter Ads info and privacy

32.4K people are talking about this



- August 6, 2012, in a tweet more than a year after Obama released his longform birth certificate
9. "Was it a birth certificate? You tell me. Some people say that was not his birth certificate. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I'm saying I don't know. Nobody knows."

- August 2013, to ABC News
10. "How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama's 'birth certificate' died in plane crash today. All others lived."

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump

How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s “birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived


13.8K
5:32 PM - Dec 12, 2013
Twitter Ads info and privacy

18.7K people are talking about this



- December 12, 2013, in tweet about the death of Loretta Fuddy.
11. "Well, I don't know -- did he do it? ... Well, a lot of people don't agree with you and a lot of people feel it wasn't a proper certificate."
-May 2014, in an interview with TV3's Colette Fitzpatrick in Ireland, Trump first contested whether Obama had released his birth certificate, then questioned whether its legitimacy.
12. "There are three things that could happen. And one of them did happen. He was perhaps born in Kenya. Very simple, OK? He was perhaps born in this country. But said he was born in Kenya because if you say you were born in Kenya, you got aid and you got into colleges. People were doing that. So perhaps he was born in this country, and that has a very big chance. Or, you know, who knows?"
​

Selective memory on your part?

 

[Stevicus]

Nice failed attempt with the wordplay. Your objections make sense only if it's true that Tesla does not "manufacture" cars or cars did not exist before Tesla started "manufacturing" them.


There were cars manufactured before Telsa started manufacturing cars.
Tesla manufactures cars. Trump manufactures fear.

Failed attempt at wordplay? After you stated that Trump was "manufacturing" an intangible, abstract emotion?

I notice you still never bothered to answer the question I asked earlier (in post #24): "What, in your view, do the people fear, and why do they fear it?" You have a tendency to do that, where you only respond to a few select quotes, while ignoring the more difficult questions.

 

[Stevicus]

14 of Donald Trump's most outrageous 'birther' claims - CNNPolitics
- March 23, 2011, on "The View"
2. "He's spent millions of dollars trying to get away from this issue. Millions of dollars in legal fees trying to get away from this issue. And I'll tell you what, I brought it up, just routinely, and all of a sudden a lot facts are emerging and I'm starting to wonder myself whether or not he was born in this country."

- March 28, 2011, on Fox News
3. "He doesn't have a birth certificate, or if he does, there's something on that certificate that is very bad for him. Now, somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'religion,' it might have 'Muslim.' And if you're a Muslim, you don't change your religion, by the way."​

- April 7, 2011, on NBC's "Today" show
5. "His grandmother in Kenya said, 'Oh, no, he was born in Kenya and I was there and I witnessed the birth.' She's on tape. I think that tape's going to be produced fairly soon. Somebody is coming out with a book in two weeks, it will be very interesting."​

Technically, you seem to be correct. Trump never flat out stated Obama was not born in the USA.






Uh, no. The matter was immediately dropped. The matter was not dropped at all.

Note: On April 27, 2011, President Obama made public his long form birth certificate. The Trump campaign in his statement portrayed this as the event that resolved the situation.
"Having successfully obtained President Obama's birth certificate when others could not, Mr. Trump believes that President Obama was born in the United States," Miller said.

But as the following comments demonstrate, whatever he thought personally, Trump continued to gin up birther issues for years after.

6. "He didn't know he was running for president, so he told the truth. The literary agent wrote down what he said ... He said he was born in Kenya and raised in Indonesia ... Now they're saying it was a mistake. Just like his Kenyan grandmother said he was born in Kenya, and she pointed down the road to the hospital, and after people started screaming at her, she said, 'Oh, I mean Hawaii.' Give me a break."

- May 24, 2012, interview with The Daily Beast's Lloyd Grove, responding to an erroneous report about Obama
7. "A lot of people do not think it was an authentic certificate. ... Many people do not think it was authentic. His mother was not in the hospital. There are many other things that came out. And frankly if you would report it accurately I think you'd probably get better ratings than you're getting."
- May 29, 2012, to CNN's Wolf Blitzer

8. "An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud."

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump

An 'extremely credible source' has called my office and told me that @BarackObama's birth certificate is a fraud.


20.7K
4:23 PM - Aug 6, 2012
Twitter Ads info and privacy

32.4K people are talking about this



- August 6, 2012, in a tweet more than a year after Obama released his longform birth certificate
9. "Was it a birth certificate? You tell me. Some people say that was not his birth certificate. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I'm saying I don't know. Nobody knows."

- August 2013, to ABC News
10. "How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama's 'birth certificate' died in plane crash today. All others lived."

Donald J. Trump

✔@realDonaldTrump

How amazing, the State Health Director who verified copies of Obama’s “birth certificate” died in plane crash today. All others lived


13.8K
5:32 PM - Dec 12, 2013
Twitter Ads info and privacy

18.7K people are talking about this



- December 12, 2013, in tweet about the death of Loretta Fuddy.
11. "Well, I don't know -- did he do it? ... Well, a lot of people don't agree with you and a lot of people feel it wasn't a proper certificate."
-May 2014, in an interview with TV3's Colette Fitzpatrick in Ireland, Trump first contested whether Obama had released his birth certificate, then questioned whether its legitimacy.
12. "There are three things that could happen. And one of them did happen. He was perhaps born in Kenya. Very simple, OK? He was perhaps born in this country. But said he was born in Kenya because if you say you were born in Kenya, you got aid and you got into colleges. People were doing that. So perhaps he was born in this country, and that has a very big chance. Or, you know, who knows?"
​

Selective memory on your part?

No, not selective memory. If there were some things I missed or had forgotten, then it's only because I'm human.

It's really not that big a deal anyway, yet you obviously went to so much work (so I gave you an "Informative" frubal) to prove to me that Trump made erroneous and/or questionable statements about Obama's birthplace. Why should it matter now anyway?

 

[ecco]

I notice you still never bothered to answer the question I asked earlier (in post #24): "What, in your view, do the people fear, and why do they fear it?" You have a tendency to do that, where you only respond to a few select quotes, while ignoring the more difficult questions.

That was already addressed in post #10 to Stevicus.