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Featured Faith

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Conscious thoughts, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    Having spiritual/religious faith is to believe in the unseen and faith in the teaching that what is told as wisdom is the truth, even before one see it.

    Any thoughts?
     
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  2. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I'd change 'unseen' to 'unproven'.
     
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  3. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    That is up to you :) OP was written in the way it was meant:)
     
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  4. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    Actually, I'd say unseen is a fine way of putting it as well, at least from a religious perspective.

    Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
     
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  5. Batya

    Batya Always Forward

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    I'd agree, and also include acting on that faith, as that is what proves that we actually have faith.
     
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  6. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I think there is a very important difference between faith and belief. Faith being a choice to trust in the truthfulness of an ideal. Belief being a blind (unfounded) pretense that the ideal is true. To me, faith and pretense are two very different path choices, leading to two very different results.
     
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  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I think that the term "faith" has many meanings.
     
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  8. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    In the OP it is about spiritual or religious faith:) what is the other faith you thinking of?
     
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  9. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    One might question whether the unseen "truth" has objective
    verification by others, eg, claims about General Relativity,
    or if the "truth" is subjective & widely disagreed about, eg,
    claims about the gods. Twould be useful to grok that.
     
  10. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    If you looking for scientific answer to see spiritual faith i think you will be disapointed
     
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  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Fortunately, I'm not looking for any answers.
    I just observe, ponder, & form opinions.
    It's an easy path.
     
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  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    That's what I mean. In a religious context, "faith" has many meanings. For instance:

    - loyalty ("faithfulness") to God
    - obedience to God
    - trust that God will fulfill his promises
    - belief that a religion's claims (about things now) are true without corroborating evidence
    - belief that a religion's claims are true despite contradictory evidence

    I've seen many cases where modern-day religious people take scriptures where the author is talking about "faith" in the context of loyalty to God or trust in God's promises for the future and reinterpret it as justification for beliefs without evidence.
     
  13. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Stop doing philosophy unless you have checked the problems of objective verification as you term it. You have as much faith as religious believer. Yours is just faith in effect, that the universe is natural.

    So we start here. You in effect claim that your experience e.g. of the computer monitor in front of you means that the monitor is the monitor and not something else as independent of your experience of it. That is the concept of the-thing-in-itself.
    But you can't know what objective reality is as independent of your experience of it.
    That is how you get this for science:
    Philosophy of science - Wikipedia

    There is no subjective truth for everything and there is no objective verification for everything. There are different beliefs systems and yours is not the only one possible.
     
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  14. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    For a religious person the scripture is the proof of what we experience every day in our daily life. But i can understand for someone who do not believe or have faith in God it look like it's fault.
     
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  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, you don't because you claim objective verification.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    There is no stopping me.
     
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  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    Read again....
    "One might question whether the unseen "truth" has objective
    verification by others...."

    I advised questioning it.
    That's quite different from claiming it exists.
    (I might yet claim it. But I didn't.)
     
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  18. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    And I have seen at least one human claim that methodological naturalism proves philosophical naturalism. And in circles we go.
    There are on both sides of religion or no religion some on both sides who do understand the limits of faith, reason, logic and evidence.
    You can't prove as true that God exist and you can't prove as true that the universe is natural.
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, a believer that only cares about other believers as "wrong" and don't understand that he is also a believer.
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest I have the kavorka
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    I'd never say that my Finnish friend is wrong.
    He (like me) is not even wrong.
    We just have different approaches to figuring things out.
     
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